500+hp out of a chevy 350? - Team Camaro Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 34
Post

Did a search but didn't find what I was lookin for.I have a chevy 350 4 bolt that has been bored 30 over. Im lookin to make 500 to the wheels so i know the motor will have to make over 500 to overcome drivetrain loss so ill be able to reach my goal of 500 to the wheels. I need to know what selection of parts I need to go with, Im not to familar with cams and many other parts for this engine so if anyone could give me some info or a good combo i would greatly appreciate it. Keep in mind I want this car to be streetable but when I go to the track I wan't to really get down and dirty. THX alot
RSz/28 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 12:26 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Jody
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Wilton, Ca. USA
Posts: 7,579
Post

Will you consider blower/turbo(s), or nitrous? Going to be real tough to keep it streetable and make 500 rwhp, which will require between 600 and 650 HP at the crank.

Jody
camcojb is online now  
post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 01:02 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ashby,MN, USA
Posts: 8,305
Post

don't take this as a personal attack or anything, but if you don't know much about cams and what not, you probably shouldn't be trying to make 500 horses at the wheels. start with a good solid bottom end with a mild top end that will be reliable- and a chassis that can handle it- then work your way up to the big power numbers.
or just get a twin turbo setup and/or a 300 shot of nitrous and get started with the parts breakage.

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
novaderrik is offline  
post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 01:07 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
Posts: 21,341
Smile

Sure you can but it won't be by no mean's, stock or cheap...

Start with one Dart aftermarket SB block that started life as a base 350 motor, then bore and stroke her out to like 434!!

Then start adding all the other stuff like great heads, BIG solid roller, needed compression, etc, etc and then when you are finished, tell everybody it's just a humble little old 350...

I'm not trying to be smart-headed here or start a hassle, but rather to just be realistic..

IMHO, when you start to talk about this power level, go BB!!

pdq67

PS., and don't forget the "lungs" that have been mentioned earlier, b/c one of them WILL get you there, but at a price that's probably goint to be higher then a good strong 468 or just an average 496 BB!!
pdq67 is offline  
post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 01:33 PM
Senior Tech
J L
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Champaign IL
Posts: 409
Send a message via AIM to fast Send a message via Yahoo to fast
Post

it's certainly not cheap

I did it this way (LT1 based, not standard sbc)
and I still don't have the actual "at the wheels" numbers yet

bored and stroked to 396"
AFR 210 heads pro ported by agostino racing
custom comp solid roller (over .600" both sides)
approx. 12:1 compression (with reverse cooling I can get away with it)
fully ported LT1 intake
twin 58mm throttle body, 42# injectors, walbro pump
hooker 1.75" long tubes, 3" true duals w/ x-pipe and undecided mufflers
LT1_Edit software (allows full tuning of stock pcm, hoping for a 'f.a.s.t.' system sometime in the future)

I've got more $ in there than I care to think about

I still don't have a tranny for the car built to handle it, don't have a rear end setup for it yet (thinking I can use the beefed 10 for a little while, it is an auto, less shock on launch)

the suspension can handle it, and there is a good chunk of change there

I'm sure it's going to be 'grumpy' in traffic . . . but nothing like a similair carbed car would be

so if you're serious about it, do your homework, be aware of all the potential problems, be aware of the money and time commitment (tuning, breakage, etc.)

the bottle is the easiest way, and you can turn it off
just build a solid bottom end, spend $ on great heads, match the cam and converter and spray away

I can't wait until I get everything to where it will handle a 250 (or bigger) shot on top of that nasty, snarling EFI beast

all the best

'68 Cam - LS1 (243s, 230/230 cam, NX wet) 4L60E (Yank SS4000) 12bolt (4.10s)
'94 Z28 - 396 LT4 - 11.06@123 (3.42 gears) SOLD
'68 F'bird - waiting it's turn
http://www.fquick.com/fastz28
fast is offline  
post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 34
Post

Wow the way some of you talk it seems if 500hp to the wheels with a 350 is nearly impossible which I know it isn't. I just wanted to know if someone knew a good combo of parts that I should pull togather. Nitrous I was thinking about adding later after my engine was built. As far as other means of FI including Turbos and superchargers they are a no go because I really wan't to keep this engine N/A.
RSz/28 is offline  
post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 04:09 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
Posts: 21,341
Smile

You are looking at something in the neighborhood of a motor that puts out right at 1.71 hp/cubic inch!! Then drop off 20 percent for the drive-train losses...

It's not impossible, but in a natuarally asperated(Sp?), form, it just isn't practical b/c you are in the realm of a race motor!

THE easiest way, at least to me, to do what you want is to build a standard old 400hp/350 motor and then gas her up to above 600hp for short spurts..

pdq67

PS., here's a D2K combination if you want to consider it??

355 at 12 to 1 CR., with pro-ported, 2.08"/1.60" valves, small tube headers, 900cfm carb. & single plane and a solid roller something like.. 290/290, 111/111, .550"/.550".

This gives 615hp at 7,000 rpm and 523t at 5500rpm.. Remember it's only a sim. program but it really should start you off in the right direction, imho...
pdq67 is offline  
post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 04:41 PM
Senior Tech
Eric
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Kentwood, MI
Posts: 8,097
Post

I think your goal is unrealistic. Drivetrain losses are significant -- in the neighborhood of 25%, so 500 to the rear wheels is more like 625 at the flywheel.

Making that kind of power with only 355 cid and on the motor means some serious money. If you are serious about 500 HP N/A at the rear wheels it would be much cheaper to build a big block -- and a big one at that.

E85 racer and E85 carb builder
www.horsepowerinnovations.com

68 Camaro, E85 powered 427" small block. 9.96 @ 133 MPH, 1.319 sixty foot on motor. 5.92 eighth @ 116 with a 1.42 sixty breaking beams with back tire on the bottle
Eric68 is offline  
post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 04:57 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Jody
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Wilton, Ca. USA
Posts: 7,579
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by RSz/28:
Wow the way some of you talk it seems if 500hp to the wheels with a 350 is nearly impossible which I know it isn't. I just wanted to know if someone knew a good combo of parts that I should pull togather. Nitrous I was thinking about adding later after my engine was built. As far as other means of FI including Turbos and superchargers they are a no go because I really wan't to keep this engine N/A.
It certainly isn't impossible. But since you think it's easy you really don't need our advice. I've seen MANY pretty serious BIG BLOCKS that didn't make 500 rwhp. My 12:1 468 with a solid roller and fully ported Canfields was one of them. It's not easy to do with a 350 unless you're willing to spend a lot of money. This will not be a low dollar build period.

I made 480 rwhp with a 10.25:1 small block, but it was a 406 and had some very good (read expensive port work!) heads.

Jody
camcojb is online now  
post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 34
Post

Ok I understand what you guys are sayin. So would somewhere in the 400hp range to the wheels be more resonable for a 350? And if not whats a good power range for the 350 while keepin it a street/strip engine and not all out race.
RSz/28 is offline  
post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 06:14 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Jody
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Wilton, Ca. USA
Posts: 7,579
Post

Do you have a particular budget for this build? Other than a 350 block do you have any other parts that you'd like to use or are you starting from scratch basically? It's a little easier (in my opinion) to get 400+ rwhp out of a few extra cubes like a 383-406 build. If that doesn't fit the budget then it can be worked around. Trying to get an idea of how much money you have to spend and a parts list of what you're starting with.

Jody
camcojb is online now  
post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 06:25 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Waterloo Ia
Posts: 672
Post

Are you looking for a hp number? Or are you looking for a time slip? What are you exactly looking for here? My 11:1 350 is pretty wicked, can slurp on 90 octane {probably 87 if i kept my foot out of it} and im sure is over 500hp at the crank. My goal is low 11's, weel see this spring. Id definately recommend you do ALOT of research before you even concider doing what it takes to make some serious power and keep the motor alive. This isnt going to be a $2,500 motor if you get my gist. Have you ever built a motor? If not do you know anyone well enough to trust them on giving you detailed advice in person? If not then you best start looking. You need to read up on alot of stuff so you can make choices for yourself also. Ask alot of questions, accept the advice, but dont follow blindly, cause ultimately no one on here or any other board has to drive the car but you. Me personally i dont give a damn about my 1200rpm idle, the lack of comforts such as power steering/brakes, A/C,heck heater for that matter, street shocks, swaybar etc.etc.etc. but thats all up to you.
Now part 2. Do you have a tranny that will take a beating? Stick or auto? How about a rear end?Factory parts arent going to hold up. Are you willing to modify your chassis and give up ride quality so you can get that power to the ground? There are alot of things to concider besides just a motor. I guess my biggest chunk of advice here....before you start the buildup, educate the hell out of yourself and than decide what you want, and go for it.

73' Nova, 350, Richmond 5 speed, Ford 9", Making some changes....
Best ET 11.88
MPH 116.05
60' 1.67
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff152/novaguy73/
Novaguy73 is offline  
post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 34
Post

Money isnt an issue. And a stroker kit has crossed my mind.
RSz/28 is offline  
post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 34
Post

Well as of right now I just have a 350 that I was planing on rebuilding. As far as times I was hoping for low to sub 11's. And I do have someone I know who will build this engine for me. I just want to get a different opinion from you guys.
RSz/28 is offline  
post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 04, 06:44 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Jody
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Wilton, Ca. USA
Posts: 7,579
Post

If you need a crank kit anyway I'd opt for the extra cubic inches and run a 383. If this is a pump gas deal shoot for a true 10 to 10.5:1 compression. .035-.040" quench (will require a pretty close to "0" deck, decked block or .020" longer rod), solid roller if the budget permits in the .580-.600 lift range and 240/250@.050 range (nail this down with your cam grinder), Dart Iron Eagles or ProAction iron heads with a good port job (I use Mike at Creative Flow Management , very reasonable and more critical knows how to get very good part lift numbers which are much more important than total lift numbers), Victor Jr. manifold (I've even run the Super Vics on larger small blocks with no bottom end sogginess) or RPM style manifold, and 850-950HP Holley carb. This should make around 430-450 rwhp with a decent drivetrain. Heads and cam are key here. You could cut down the carb and cam some and still make very good power, but the last couple of N/A small blocks I had really liked the 950HP carb over a 750 double pumper.

There are dozens of other combo's that will make 400+ rwhp and if you're willing to run race gas it's even easier. Personally I do all of mine to run on pump gas because with todays cam and head technology it's easy to make big power on pump gas. Obviously this engine will also need decent parts like crank and rods, rod bolts, etc. plus correct assembling methods. Add some nitrous down the road and you really have an animal.
camcojb is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome