383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP - Page 2 - Team Camaro Tech
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 10, 03:46 PM
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Dave
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 123
Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

The good old argument between SBC vs BBC. Well, I just got done building a 385 (377 .040 over) a 383 is a 377 bored .030. Anyway, if you want something to get from stop light to stop light and don't care about driveability and don't care about longivity or twisting the #&%$ out of it, build a 383 SBC. If you want something that you can enjoy with the (wife-girlfriend-son-daugther, or yourself) want driveability, want to drive down the highway and enjoy it, build a BBC. 650 HP is obtainable from a 383 without spraying it. As for the question of getting 650 HP out of a 496 is mute. Cheaper? SBC! Smarter from what I read here? BBC! The only reason I did a 385 is because thats what kind of foundation I had. I want a 68 4 link car with a crate 502 or 572. (Biscayne or 300 deluxe Chevelle) Hey what can I say I like SEDANS! After seeing my father inlaw run 11.68 with a crate 502 in a 67 Chevelle and enjoy his car on sunny days, I guess I'd have to say BBC without a doubt! FWIW!
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 10, 04:31 PM
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Tom
 
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Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

I sure didn't spend $2000 to put a BBC in my 69. I cheated and used the small block frame mounts and crossmember - it fit. Header clearance very tight around driver side header (2-1/8 Hooker) and needed a little denting. A power steering pump & brackets along with alternator bracket from a 454 truck completed the deal. Crank pully is close to frame but there is enough room to get a belt on. Far from ideal but it works at minimal cost. I have had this combo for about 25 years.

As for getting 600+ hp, I would recommend first BBC. If cash is not an issue, go to 540 inches, size will make it very reliable on the street. Good heads are a must with BBC and they don't come cheap. You get what you pay for.

Second choice would be to build a 6 or 6.2 liter LSX. With ported L92 heads you can put together a relatively low cost motor that will make great power (500++) and have a package that will still get 20 mpg. Last choice for me would be the 383 - I don't want to start a war but the new Gen IV heads are just better. Add a Procharger ($$$) to either small block combo and you will have a very fast street car.

'69 Coupe
Original 350 PG, Now 427 4 speed
Owned since 1977
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 10, 07:04 PM
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george
 
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Location: detroit
Posts: 2,285
Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

Two engines make 650 hp..but one makes 100 ft/lbs more torque across the board at lower rpm.The 496 gets the nod here for a street deal.The 383 would require some coinage in order to rpm enough to offset the torque differance.Keep in mind the 496 could get er done with stock iron oval ports cleaned up..the 383 would require high end aftermarket heads to even come close.Its hard to ignore the swept volume that the 496 has over the 383.This assumes they are both operating at the same volumetric efficiency.
Fwiw..struggle all you want naturally aspirated.Force feed the engine with positive manifold pressure and stop relying on mother nature if you want to build some serious cyl pressure=torque.

George
68 Camaro
8-71 blown 461 Rat on E-85
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 10, 07:33 PM
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Steiner
 
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Location: Lyman, SC
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Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

Just a warning that I'm going to make some very inaccurate and incomplete mathematical examples.

A good, not awesome, normally aspirated setup will get you around 1.3 lb ft per cubic inch. For a 383, that gives you around 500 lb ft peak. In an ideal world if you were able to maintain it in a linear fashion after hitting peak torque (which you won't), that would have you hitting 650 hp at over 6800 RPM at the earliest but most likely higher. Not what I'd call a fun street engine as your power band would be starting very high.

The 496 would give you around 645 lb ft. Using the same ideal situation, that puts you hitting 650 hp just over 5200 RPM assuming it has hit peak torque by then.

I'll tell you this....if you're talking about building a fun street engine and you are only chasing a hp number without regard to the rest of the car's gearing and such, you are going to wind up with something you hate to drive. On a street car, get the whole setup right, build it for torque and the powerband you want, and let hp fall where it falls.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft
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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 10, 11:00 PM
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Al
 
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Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

650 HP is a crapload of power in a street car. My 475-ish 383 is docile and is a BLAST to drive, and is 175 short of your goal, yet faster than 99.9% of whateverever you see driving down the road.

On the $2000 dollar thing - the biggest single item is headers. If you need to buy headers for your small block anyway, it's about a wash. If you already have nice headers and nice exhaust, it'll cost a bit to make the swap. Frame stands aren't that spendy. You'll need all new accessory brackets, water pump, heater core, maybe a radiator, stuff like that.

BBC or SBC @ 650 HP will require that the rest of the drivetrain be up to snuff, so I don't see any add'l expense there.

If you want 650 HP, it would be way easier and way more enjoyable in the form of a big inch BBC.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 10, 12:21 AM
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Larry
 
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Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

You might want to read the article in Chevy High Performance in the May issue I think. They built a "budget" 496 for about $5300 that made around 500 HP and close to 600 ftlb I think. It seemed like a good street motor.

68 RS Coupe 327/350 TH, Detroit Speed, Hotchkis, Vintage Air, 8.5" 3.42 posi 10-bolt, MagnaFlow 2 1/2" exhaust, etc.

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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 10, 04:17 AM
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Greg
 
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Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

Boost is the great equalizer for the small block. It's gonna skew your budget but will give you the best of all worlds. Light weight small block, very friendly street manners and 650HP is a walk in the park.

Having said that, 650 HP either way is some serious grunt. You are never going to be able to fully utilize that on the street. Plus you really have to beef up the rest of your drivetrain. Like mentioned above, my 520 HP 406 was an absolute blast to drive and was faster than I ever would need on the street.

69 Camaro, 3450lbs., 400, Cal Tracs, Coan 10", TH400, 3.50 gear, no trailer
D1SC blow thru, pump gas, 9:1, ~10 PSI,
1.325 60', 5.988 @ 115.4
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 10, 06:33 AM
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Brandon
 
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Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

BBC is the only way to go. You can build a 600+hp 496/505 and very streetable and even have vacuum for power brakes. Use a Hyd Roller cam and you have no maintnance and can drive it anywhere.

The question is, do you have the driveshaft, trans and rearend and cooling system to support this type of power?

71 Chevelle 496 Stroker Hyd Roller 675HP, TH400 3500 Stall, 3.73 12 Bolt.

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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 10, 09:06 AM
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Tom
 
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Location: Rochester Mn
Posts: 7,613
Smile Re: 383 sbc VS. 496 bbc 650 HP

Do a google search on 427 small block chevy... tons of info out there. 400 block with 4" stroker crankshaft.

Big Block type torque and less weight. Also no conversion cost.

I was surprised to see many NEW Chinese made parts on Ricks First Generation website that are much cheaper than they used to be. Here are Most of the parts.

BBC frame mounts $66
BBC crossmember..$122
Radiator...............$360 ? US Radiator at Ricks
Radiator shroud.....$180 (69) or $80 (67-68)
BBC Heater box.....$70
Front Coil Springs...$90
Z-bar (bellcrank)...$45

Headers...............$250 + ?

Must use stock height valve covers or a smaller Brake booster is needed.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1

Last edited by TJS69; Apr 14th, 10 at 02:17 PM.
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