Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 11, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

What master cylinder is the best on to go with? I have front disc....69 Camaro/Chevelle and rear drum 67 Camaro. What is the best master cylinder to use to use? I have been reading Vet.....but what year? part number?

Going in a 67 Camaro, front disc..camaro chevelle, rear drums...stock type. 8.5 rear end, 327...mostly stock, a little warmed over.

Looking to have a cleaner look with no booster and good brakes is the goal.

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn.......
Then, you have enough horsepower."
-Mark Donahue
My 67 Camaro Time Line http://www.camaros.net/forums/133-build-projects/211805-my-67-camaro-time-line.html
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 12:35 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

For manual brakes, you want to look for a "deep hole" master cylinder, which has a deeper pushrod hole in the rear. This helps keep the manual pushrod from falling out.

As always --David Pozzi has good info posted on the subject:
http://www.pozziracing.com/brakes.htm#Booster

For "stock-type" front discs, people seem to have the best results with a 1+1/8" bore master, although some folks run a 1" bore master without issues (risk is that the 1" bore "might" not move enough fluid, so the pedal could bottom out before generating enough pressure).

The 68-76(?) vette with power brakes has a 1+1/8" bore, deep pushrod hole, and is a "bolt in" for a stock 1st gen. Alternatively, the "stock replacement" power disc/drum master for a 1st gen camaro is also a 1+1/8" bore master with the deep pushrod hole.

Either way -- make sure you use the upper hole in the brake pedal -- this gives a better pedal ratio and reduces the pedal effort (at the expense of longer pedal travel).

IF you're willing to tinker a bit, I'd consider the master for an 80-84 Dodge D150 pickup. This is an aluminum master with 1+1/8" bore and a deep pushrod hole. You'll need to modify the mounting holes a bit (drill/demel out the holes on the master since they Mopar spacing is a bit different) and you should swap the plumbing so the rear-most port (closest to firewall) goes to the front brakes and the front-most port goes to the rear brakes. But -- it should make a nice clean install and the alloy M/C is a lot lighter than the old cast iron job... (Note -- I have NOT used this on a camaro, but had one on an old race car and it worked great...)
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 01:03 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMessick View Post
IF you're willing to tinker a bit, I'd consider the master for an 80-84 Dodge D150 pickup. This is an aluminum master with 1+1/8" bore and a deep pushrod hole. You'll need to modify the mounting holes a bit (drill/demel out the holes on the master since they Mopar spacing is a bit different) and you should swap the plumbing so the rear-most port (closest to firewall) goes to the front brakes and the front-most port goes to the rear brakes. But -- it should make a nice clean install and the alloy M/C is a lot lighter than the old cast iron job... (Note -- I have NOT used this on a camaro, but had one on an old race car and it worked great...)
hhhmmmmm :idea: ????maybe have to look into ?

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Just the info I was needing...and forgot all about David's site. So to be clear the power brake masters front disc and rear drum of the Vett and first gen Camaro have the deep hole normally found with non power masters cylinders?

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn.......
Then, you have enough horsepower."
-Mark Donahue
My 67 Camaro Time Line http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211805
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 02:39 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Harrison View Post
Just the info I was needing...and forgot all about David's site. So to be clear the power brake masters front disc and rear drum of the Vett and first gen Camaro have the deep hole normally found with non power masters cylinders?
Vette would be power disc/disc (not disc/drum) but yes -- the 68-76 vette power disc/disc and 67-69 Camaro power disc/drum both have the deep-hole master.

<Note that 77+ vette and 70+ camaro changed to the "shallow" hole master for power brakes>
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 02:56 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUG G View Post
hhhmmmmm :idea: ????maybe have to look into ?
Wilwood, Strange, and some other manufacturers make a version of the Mopar master cyl:
http://wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/M...temno=260-4893
Note that the "primary" port is at the rear and "secondary" port is at the front (opposite of stock for a 1st gen):
http://wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds260.pdf

Some stock Mopar applications:
80-84 D150 is 1+1/8" bore
79-83 Cordoba is 1+1/32" bore

Search around a bit on the web and you can find more info.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 05:12 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

1976 Chevelle with manual brakes.. 15/16" bore.

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Would it be best to run the Vet Disc/Disc or the Camaro Disc/Drum.

I have Disc/Drum. Front disc are 69 Camaro/Chevelle type single piston and rear drums are stock drum brakes on an 8.5 rear (if that means anything).

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn.......
Then, you have enough horsepower."
-Mark Donahue
My 67 Camaro Time Line http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211805
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 05:52 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Since you are already moding the vehicle why would you not upgrade to power brakes? You can easily pick up the master/pvalve and make it work well.
For what it's worth, after 30 years in the repair business, I've seen many, many accidents from manual brakes, they just require alot of force to apply the same amount of stopping force in a panic situation, especially disc/drum.

My hardest convert is one of my closest friends, who loves his BB Elco SS like he loves his wife, when I finally convinced him to add power brakes and steering, he told me it was the smartest thing he's done in years, his wife can drive it now, and he's having ALOT more fun throwing it around...
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 06:23 PM
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

I have the manual brakes with the Vette master & it stops very well, plus it is predictable with only 4" manifold vacuum at idle, something that would not happen with power brakes.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 11, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Front Disc, rear drum manual brake master

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabbin2ndgear View Post
Since you are already moding the vehicle why would you not upgrade to power brakes? You can easily pick up the master/pvalve and make it work well.
For what it's worth, after 30 years in the repair business, I've seen many, many accidents from manual brakes, they just require alot of force to apply the same amount of stopping force in a panic situation, especially disc/drum.

My hardest convert is one of my closest friends, who loves his BB Elco SS like he loves his wife, when I finally convinced him to add power brakes and steering, he told me it was the smartest thing he's done in years, his wife can drive it now, and he's having ALOT more fun throwing it around...
I have had them power for many years. It was manual 4 wheel drum for a few years and it always stopped pretty good but the drums and adjustment up front was an ongoing task to keep up with for strait stops. I really don't like the look of the booster and I would like to check it out with manual to see how it is. I drove a 68 with disc/drum manual and I really liked it. I also liked the peddle feel.

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn.......
Then, you have enough horsepower."
-Mark Donahue
My 67 Camaro Time Line http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211805
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