Steering gear upgrade interesting note - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 29th, 14, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Chet
 
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Steering gear upgrade interesting note

I have been reading the threads regarding swapping in an IROC Z XH gear or some people using the Cardone or Lares rebuilt. In the case of the Lares 972 box which allegedly has Z28 internals, that is not entirely true. I bet this is true with the A1 Cardone boxes also where people have swapped them in and not got the increased road "feel". The most important part to get that feel is the torsion bar or t-bar. The thicker in diameter it is, the more road feel you get. The t-bar thickness on a std 69 box is .175. The XH IROC box has a .210 bar. Lares just told me that they do not put a .210 t-bar in when they put the Z28 components in a 972 box! I am willing to bet that happens with Cardone also and why it is a crap shoot as to what steering manners you wind up with. Just thought you guys who are plannng on doing the swap might want to know. I am either going to find a used XH box or (shudder) pay the exorbitant price for a Lee 670 box depending on my luck finding a good used IROC box.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 6th, 14, 08:58 PM
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Pete
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Yep, thats why i suggested getting it from a junkyard car with IROC on the door, then you know what you are getting!

Swap 3rd Gen IROC Camaro Steering Box into 1st Gen Camaro

Pete
1968 Camaro
2003 Boxster S

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 6th, 14, 09:59 PM
todd
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Ok, I'm new to 3rd gens so...do the Z-28's (like the one I just purchased) have the good box?
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 14, 02:19 PM
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Steiner
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

When buying rebuilt, Z28 is only part of the equation. It must also spec FE2 suspension.
A regular Z28 FE1 spec box will get you fast ratio with a smaller torsion bar.
A Z28 WITH FE2 SUSPENSION AND/OR WITHOUT FE1 SUSPENSION spec box will (should) get you fast ratio with large torsion bar. Monte Carlo SS with quick ratio is almost the same except it has more travel.

Here's the factory box specs
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e/viewall.html

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 14, 03:07 PM
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Brian
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Yeah, put a new Cardone box on my car this winter and I don't think it has the right feel. It was better than what I had before, but not GREAT. I decided to keep it and then I got my alignment done and he put -1 degree camber in and it feels awesome now! Nice and tight. I'm going to leave it like it is for a while and decide later if I want to change the box again.....much later haha!
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 14, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Chet
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

If the Iroc you are pulling the gear from came from the factory with 16 inch wheels, you will get the good XH box. That is the only way to be sure as there are just as many Iroc clones out there as first gen Z28s and SS's out there.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 14, 02:37 PM
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

I replaced the original 68 (standard ratio) steering box with a Lares 972 (quick ratio) I bought at Advance Auto several years ago.

(I turned in original box for core)

At the time, the Lares description said IROC internals in a stock box.

I don't know specs on the parts Lares was using in the 972 at the time, or what they use in them now.

The 972 I bought gave me quick ratio and much firmer modern feel than the original box did, and it was a direct swap with no adapters, etc.

I'm happy with the 972, but I've never driven an IROC to compare the steer effort.

1968 327 sport coupe. Son of original owner.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old Aug 29th, 14, 12:18 PM
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Rich
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Is there any way to tell what you have without actually driving the car? I bought one of these boxes and its in my car but the car is being rebuilt and its a while before I can drive it. If its the wrong box then I would rather replace it now before its assembled.

Thanks,

Rich

1967 SS350, Under construction.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 14, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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Chet
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Yes. Any box rebuilder can measure the amount of torque needed to turn the gear as well as check the internal stops and ratio.

To those wondering if the graveyard parts car will have the right box, 16 inch wheels plus the RPO option B4Z on the sticker on the underside of the console lid will assure you have the right car. Don't forget, after 1988 the IROC package went away. 1989-1992 Z28's have the box you want also.


Quote:
Originally Posted by H20cooled View Post
Is there any way to tell what you have without actually driving the car? I bought one of these boxes and its in my car but the car is being rebuilt and its a while before I can drive it. If its the wrong box then I would rather replace it now before its assembled.

Thanks,

Rich
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 14, 06:27 PM
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David Pozzi
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Also the Jeep Cherokee boxes are supposed to all be fast ratio and stiff valving. I don't know if they are as stiff as the IROC boxes though. The Z/28 boxes are one step less-stiff than an IROC.

Steering box adapter fittings: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-605sol

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 15, 12:56 PM
gary
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

holy smokes,
i could use some help, it seems folks tell me the just enough to hook me. then reallity sets in and theres usually a ton more needed.
i would like a good gearbox, type 2 pump, remote res.,any and everything to do a complete swap from man. steering. i have pulley and mounting brackets along with making my own hose.
i do have drop spin. with attached arms.
i keep finding not what i want.
thanks to each and everyone
68
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 15, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Chet
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

You want all that stuff, go to ProTouring websites. Or figure out what parts you need in terms of resevoirs, brackets, hoses, etc to bolt to a second gen IROC box. Its called hotrodding. There are no "kits" out there ready to buy.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 15, 04:06 PM
gary
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

thanks much
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 15, 11:46 PM
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David Pozzi
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Do you have the long water pump?
If so, look at most GM engines used during the 70's to early 80's. Pickups are a good source.
Speedway Motors sells a cheap type 1 pump bracket to mount a stock pump, and hoses to fit a first gen are available at any auto parts store. Speedway sells a Sweet type II pump, v belt pulley and aluminum bracket to fit a long water pump car. We used that on my wife's 73 Camaro.

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 15, 05:29 AM
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Greg
 
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Re: Steering gear upgrade interesting note

Good morning..... I bought was is suppose to be a "XH" gear box yesterday. It came off a 1991 Trans Am GTA. I ask the guy I purchased it from if he could read the end-cap and email back....hence he said those 2 letters.

What else is needed? Rag joint?, special steering lines (one side metric, one side standard?), what about the steering arm, do I use the one that is coming with it, or do swap mine off the original onto the 3rd gen box?

Thanks, Greg
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