Somender Singh's Grooves... - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 07, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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George
 
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Somender Singh's Grooves...

Does anyone out here have any experience with cutting "grooves" in the quench pads in cylinder heads. Somender-singh.com is the website from the "inventor" who claims to have made a sizable performance improvement from a simple grove cut into the head. Unlike most other sounds too good to be true deals, there seems to be a lot of people who have tried it and now swear by it...not swear at it!

Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 07, 05:34 AM
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Smile Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Do a lengthly search on the web for "Soft head" and you should get several links to this technology.

Try here for starters...........

http://www.theoldone.com/about/default.asp

I think Energy Dynamic's, Inc. (i.e., ENDYN), leads the pack on this??

And just maybe Dr. Gas and McFarlands "sloped/diveted" shaped piston crowns too?? I hope I've remembered this one right, it's been a long time?? Search for Dr. Gas.........

http://www.drgas.com/store/home.php

pdq67
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 07, 04:31 PM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Back again, I remember what this is now!!

He just put a long shallow tapered notch in the piston that was a kind of a wedge both ways and it was between the valves on the side opposite the sparkplug. Something about creating a better directed quench disturbance as well as better flame travel sorta deal....

Right under the "heart-shaped" dealie on Vortec heads....

pdq67
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 07, 05:42 PM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Wasn't this the first "fireslot" cuts placed on the older Jahns pistons?

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 07, 07:11 PM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

No, not really b/c Jahns's had a notch in their tall domes right in front of the sparkplug electrode, not on the flat on the other side like this guy is doing.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 07, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

I'm not seeing any mention of Somender Singh's groove concept on either of your suggested websites. Thing is I have done searches and have found a good bit of info...I am more interested in who around here has experience with the idea. Most of the sites that have forums that discuss "Somender's grooves" cater to people with more "modern" engines. Since the concept of the grooves is basically only useful as an addition to a nice flat tight quench area between say pushrod chevy heads and flattop pistons I get uninterested quickly when people start talking about their 4 valve per cylinder open chamber heads with dished pistons when the concept clearly does not apply to them.

I would love to hear David Vizard's take on the grooves subject.

George
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 07, 05:17 AM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Sorry the links aren't getting you where you want to go...

I've held the piston in my hand so know they exist, but from who???

As for the guys piston top slot, I've read up on it too, but again, where.

I'm into this stuff bigtime,, so just give me 'til this evening to hunt it up for you..

Sorry I'm not doing better.....

I will get back...

pdq67
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 07, 10:19 AM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq67 View Post
Back again, I remember what this is now!!

He just put a long shallow tapered notch in the piston that was a kind of a wedge both ways and it was between the valves on the side opposite the sparkplug. Something about creating a better directed quench disturbance as well as better flame travel sorta deal....

Right under the "heart-shaped" dealie on Vortec heads....

pdq67
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 07, 05:56 PM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Guys,

Who make's the slant topped SB pistons that have bumps on them in certain spots??

I just can't remember who it is for him?????

Sorry..

pdq67
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 07, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Don't worry about tracking down the grooved pistons...it's no big deal. Somender Singh's modifications were limited to work on the heads only. He is a "port by theory, feel, and testing" kind of guy and until the not to distant past had no access to formal flow bench testing equiptment, etc. He simply started out by testing an engine in a car, pulling the heads, doing his modifications keeping everything else the same, and reinstalling the heads and comparing the performance. A while back we were e-mailing back and forth with rather long winded question/answer periods. He is a very likable guy by the way. This was before he got decent access to some serious testing equiptment and started his website.
I have heard a good number of report from serious racers(mostly drag racers) who have done strait A-B test taking their heads off, cutting the grooves, putting the heads back on with everything else being exactly the same. They have almost universally been reporting noticably improved idling and low end torque numbers with longer duration cams. The exhaust temp is said to run cooler with much less carbon build-up from combustion chamber through exhaust pipes. All have reported significantly improved detonation resistance. I have heard plenty of people who have tried it and say good to great things, but I have yet to hear of anyone who has tried it and was disappointed. I am naturally very skeptical of the just sounds too logical and simple to be true, but the functional feedback I've found seems to be about 100%. Interesting!

Any thoughts?

George
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 07, 05:28 AM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Imho, the groove(s) don't care if they are on the pistons or the flats of the heads!!

I figure there is a grain of salt in this b/c any time you can run min. quench and get MAX turbulance which the groove should help do, you will get better detonation resistance.

Just like running an old closed chambered head on a BB vs an open chambered head!! This has been proven, but at the expense of a slightly dirtier smog-causing exhaust due to increased surface area that quench's the flame dlightly more.

And fwiw, the closed chambered BB heads of old were like crude fastburn heads are now b/c they are COMPACT, chamber-wise and that promotes fast burn!! Which also tends to hold detonation in check so that a schosh higher CR can be ran!!
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 07, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

It's funny I agree with you that it shouldn't seem to matter if the grooves are in the heads or the pistons. It is one of the things that I asked Somender directly about and he was for some reason convinced grooving the pistons instead of the heads was a bad idea. Never did exactly explain why though beyond possibly weakening the piston if the tops were already thin.

George
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 07, 04:40 PM
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

I figure that is why, thin piston tops!! But what's the diff. between them and thin head decks??

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 07, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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George
 
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Re: Somender Singh's Grooves...

Who know's, as long as there is enough metal as not to create a weak spot. So I guess there is not much in the way of interest or experience with the "grooves" around here! Interesting!
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