Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407 - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 10, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
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Trevor
 
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Location: Red Deer, Alberta
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Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

I am currently running a 1411 on my BBC, 454ci mild cam and a Torker II , I have it jetted to #24 on the Edelbrock chart, .110 main jet with .070x.037 metering rod. The book says they do not reccomend a 1411 with a Torker II. What is the difference between a 1411 and a 1407?
Is the 1411 not doing the job and would a 1407 be a better carb with my setup?

1969 SS 454ci TKO 600
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 10, 08:21 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

The 1411 and 1407 are the exact same carb with the only exception being the 1407 is a manual choke and comes jetted richer out of the box. (.113 main w/ .071x.047 rods)

The 1411 comes jetted for economy, but you can actually buy the tuning kit for the 1407 (#1480) and use the jets/rods in the 1411. So first of all, no need to buy a 1407 since you can tune the 1411 to the exact same configuration.

With the 1480 kit, you get more rod combinations to play with and the .113 and .116 jets that you can use to go more rich with both the cruise and power modes. If you don't already have the 1411 tuning kit (#1489), save your money, and go straight to the #1480 kit. If you do have the 1489, it is just more rods to play with, so keep it around.
I have a 1411 on my 406sbc and have the #1489 and #1480 kits. Currently, I am running the .116 main jets with the 73x47 rods. (both available in the 1480 kit) I sense I am a little rich on the cruise mode due to my overdrive, but I am still tweaking.

Are you running lean? Are you trying to address any symptoms in particular? I would say your power mode is in the ball park, but your economy is a bit on the lean side. Switching the rods was a good start, but with that big block I can only assume that it needs more fuel somewhere.

'69 - 408sbc: 11.70@116mph
10.7:1, 65cc AFR 195 Eliminators, Comp XR288HR, RPM Air-Gap, 950 Street HP, Dynatech 1-3/4 Stepped Headers, 3" Magnaflow X-pipe Sys, MSD Dig 6AL, 200-4R (2800 stall), 8.5 10bolt 4.10 eaton 30spl posi /Cal-Tracs
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 10, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Thanks for the reply, I was running lean, when I bought it it came with .107 jets and .065x.047 and the motor blew up because three exhaust valves cracked and went thru the motor. After the rebuild it was changed to .113 and .065x.047 but it blew black soot and fouled the plugs. Now its .110 with .070x.037 it runs good but has a slight hesitation, I will keep trying different combos.

1969 SS 454ci TKO 600
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 10, 04:19 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

If you haven't already, you may need to move the pump drive link to the top hole. This is the linkage at the driver's side front of the carb. This increases the stroke length of the plunger and should help with any hesitations or stumbles. Or, if it is a mid-throttle stumble, you might try going to the pink springs. Good luck

'69 - 408sbc: 11.70@116mph
10.7:1, 65cc AFR 195 Eliminators, Comp XR288HR, RPM Air-Gap, 950 Street HP, Dynatech 1-3/4 Stepped Headers, 3" Magnaflow X-pipe Sys, MSD Dig 6AL, 200-4R (2800 stall), 8.5 10bolt 4.10 eaton 30spl posi /Cal-Tracs
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 10, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Quote:
Originally Posted by xAerox View Post
If you haven't already, you may need to move the pump drive link to the top hole. This is the linkage at the driver's side front of the carb. This increases the stroke length of the plunger and should help with any hesitations or stumbles. Or, if it is a mid-throttle stumble, you might try going to the pink springs. Good luck
Thanks, I moved the pump drive to the longest stroke and that has helped. Right now I have the silver springs in, what would be the effect if the springs were changed to pink?

1969 SS 454ci TKO 600
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 10, 07:37 PM
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta69SS View Post
Thanks, I moved the pump drive to the longest stroke and that has helped. Right now I have the silver springs in, what would be the effect if the springs were changed to pink?

Yes... what would the pink springs do?? Im having the same issue mid pedal stumble.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 10, 07:04 AM
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

The springs essentially play an up/down tug of war with the manifold vacuum to determine what diameter of the rod is pulled into the jet. Take for instance a .070x.037 rod. Under idle/cruise, the vacuum is high and pulls the the .070 diameter of the rod down into the jet.(to regulate fuel flow for cruise mode) Under WOT, manifold vacuum goes to zero and the springs are are now free to pull the rod up out of the jet, exposing the .037 diameter of the rod in the jet.(to promote more fuel flow for power mode) The transition from cruise mode to power mode is where the spring choice comes into play.

What happens in a mid-throttle stumble is the spring does not overpower the vacuum fast enough and it keeps the fat part of the rod in the jet too long; essentially delaying the delivery of fuel when you enter the power mode.(hence, the stumble) With a stronger spring, it overpowers the vacuum sooner and there is no lapse in fuel flow from cruise to power mode. As taken from the edelbrock tuning manual, the spring strengths are as follows: (from weakest to strongest)

Weakest
Blue 3" staging vacuum
Yellow 4" staging vacuum
Orange (stock) 5" staging vacuum
Pink 7" staging vacuum
Plain 8" staging vacuum
Strongest

That said, the problem is not always the spring. If the problem persists, even with the strongest spring, the problem is related to the metering. If that is the case, I would try to go more rich in the cruise mode. (smaller diameter for the first number.. ex: .065x.037 vs .070x.037)

'69 - 408sbc: 11.70@116mph
10.7:1, 65cc AFR 195 Eliminators, Comp XR288HR, RPM Air-Gap, 950 Street HP, Dynatech 1-3/4 Stepped Headers, 3" Magnaflow X-pipe Sys, MSD Dig 6AL, 200-4R (2800 stall), 8.5 10bolt 4.10 eaton 30spl posi /Cal-Tracs

Last edited by xAerox; Apr 27th, 10 at 08:48 AM.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 10, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Trevor
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Excellent explination, thank-you. Now that I understand how it works I will be able to do more my self.

1969 SS 454ci TKO 600
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 10, 11:10 AM
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JMO
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Quote:
Originally Posted by xAerox View Post
The springs essentially play an up/down tug of war with the manifold vacuum to determine what diameter of the rod is pulled into the jet. Take for instance a .070x.037 rod. Under idle/cruise, the vacuum is high and pulls the the .070 diameter of the rod down into the jet.(to regulate fuel flow for cruise mode) Under WOT, manifold vacuum goes to zero and the springs are are now free to pull the rod up out of the jet, exposing the .037 diameter of the rod in the jet.(to promote more fuel flow for power mode) The transition from cruise mode to power mode is where the spring choice comes into play.

What happens in a mid-throttle stumble is the spring does not overpower the vacuum fast enough and it keeps the fat part of the rod in the jet too long; essentially delaying the delivery of fuel when you enter the power mode.(hence, the stumble) With a stronger spring, it overpowers the vacuum sooner and there is no lapse in fuel flow from cruise to power mode. As taken from the edelbrock tuning manual, the spring strengths are as follows: (from weakest to strongest)

Weakest
Blue 3" staging vacuum
Yellow 4" staging vacuum
Orange (stock) 5" staging vacuum
Pink 7" staging vacuum
Plain 8" staging vacuum
Strongest

That said, the problem is not always the spring. If the problem persists, even with the strongest spring, the problem is related to the metering. If that is the case, I would try to go more rich in the cruise mode. (smaller diameter for the first number.. ex: .065x.037 vs .070x.037)
Just ordered the calibration kit....should be able to square away any issues with the kit, between springs, jets, and rods.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 05:58 PM
dave
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

I have a question on the 1411. i currently have one on my ZZ4 crate motor. Having a problem with it stumbling off the line when I floor it. Also it stumbles abit when cruising down the road and floor it. I rejetted the carb on reccomendation, removed the .110 and put in the .113 still having the same problem. Pump drive is in the top hole. I have the rods to finish setting it up like the 1407, or should I change the springs? Also if anyone here knows ZZ4's does the motor like the vacuum advance connected to timed or manifold vacuum port?
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old May 11th, 10, 05:15 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

What rods are you currently running? I would definitely try going to the pink springs. It is a quick test and should provide some additional clues. What is your timing currently set at?

'69 - 408sbc: 11.70@116mph
10.7:1, 65cc AFR 195 Eliminators, Comp XR288HR, RPM Air-Gap, 950 Street HP, Dynatech 1-3/4 Stepped Headers, 3" Magnaflow X-pipe Sys, MSD Dig 6AL, 200-4R (2800 stall), 8.5 10bolt 4.10 eaton 30spl posi /Cal-Tracs
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old May 11th, 10, 08:02 AM
dave
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

I kept the stock rods .075x.047 but have a set of .071x.047 if need be. Have tried timing anywhere from 12 - 18 BTC. Trying to determine if is is a flooding issue or starving issue. Like I asked, on the ZZ4 which is the best port to pull my vacuum advance off of? Have heard high compression motors should be on manifold vacuum, but everyone has their own opionion on this
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old May 11th, 10, 10:01 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

In that case, I would definitely recommend going to the .071x.047 rods. The .075 is still pretty lean for the .113 jets and could remain a stumbling point. If that still doesn't help, it would be a good idea to start thinking EDL #1480 tuning kit; and perhaps try the .065x.047 rods with the pink springs. That combination would give you a pretty rich cruise A/F mixture and would keep the fuel flowing at the power mode transition. This would be a good diagnostic to tell whether or not the stumble is truly a lean spot.
As for the ported vs manifold discussion I have found (just like you) that everyone has their own opinion. Personally, I have tried it both ways and prefer ported. But this is on a 406, not a ZZ4; so take that for what it's worth.

'69 - 408sbc: 11.70@116mph
10.7:1, 65cc AFR 195 Eliminators, Comp XR288HR, RPM Air-Gap, 950 Street HP, Dynatech 1-3/4 Stepped Headers, 3" Magnaflow X-pipe Sys, MSD Dig 6AL, 200-4R (2800 stall), 8.5 10bolt 4.10 eaton 30spl posi /Cal-Tracs
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old May 11th, 10, 10:42 AM
dave
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Thanks, I actually finally got ahold of a mechanic friend, he thinks either the stepup spring or a problem with the secondaries. Someone on Nasty reccomended disconnecting the rod that controls the secondaries and see if that cures the problem. At least it should tell me if problem is in primary or secondary side. Makes sense since problem only occurs when you hammer the throttle and open up the secondaries quickly. Slow full accelration there is no problem. Hope to get some time to play with it before the weekend
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old May 11th, 10, 11:18 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 vs 1407

Good luck. Let us know what you find out. The secondaries could very well be the problem.

'69 - 408sbc: 11.70@116mph
10.7:1, 65cc AFR 195 Eliminators, Comp XR288HR, RPM Air-Gap, 950 Street HP, Dynatech 1-3/4 Stepped Headers, 3" Magnaflow X-pipe Sys, MSD Dig 6AL, 200-4R (2800 stall), 8.5 10bolt 4.10 eaton 30spl posi /Cal-Tracs
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