Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Hey guys, it need to buy some frame stands for a big block I'm installing in my 67 camaro and wanted to see what you guys thought about the 69 frame stand design over the 67. The reason I'm looking at the 69 design is that the motor mounts have the interlock design. If I install the 69 frame stands with 69 motor mounts will the motor be positioned the same as if I used the 67 frame stands with 67 motor mounts? Seems like the 67 and 69 have different height deminsions.

Thanks,
Tony
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 05:37 AM
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

67-69 frame stands are all alike with differences between big and small block as to offset. So, you can use what ever motor mounts you like with the frame stands for a big block for the correct engine offset.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 06:24 AM
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

There is a difference in low performance and high performance engine motor mounts/frame brackets.

http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

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Last edited by quickboat; Aug 7th, 11 at 06:37 AM.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quickboat View Post
There is a difference in low performance and high performance engine motor mounts/frame brackets.

http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm
Thanks that's the info I was looking for.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Could you guys set me straight on this? I read that all Energy Suspension engine mounts are interlocking, so is there any benefit going with the 69 frame mounts over the 67-68 style?

Thanks,
Tony
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 11:08 AM
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Smile Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Tony,

Energy suspension engine mounts are interlocking. Stock 67-68 engine mounts and the 69 307/327 engine mounts are not !

The 67/68 and 69 Big Block frame stands are NOT the same ! 67/68 use the short and wide engine mounts and the 69 use the tall and narrow engine mounts. They both put the engine in the same location... but they are NOT the same.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 11:11 AM
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Smile Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonpie View Post
67-69 frame stands are all alike with differences between big and small block as to offset. So, you can use what ever motor mounts you like with the frame stands for a big block for the correct engine offset.
NOT so, my friend.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 12:06 PM
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Don't mix components. If you use '69 frame stands be sure to use '69-up motor mounts.

'67-'68 mounts will very loosely fit '69 brackets. The engine will be too low in front and move around causing clutch chatter and driveline vibration. The correct '69 mount is a very tight fit on the bracket.

Don't forget BBs used different crossmembers for both trans and a longer clutch cross-shaft. If you're using a manual trans I hear you can use the standard crossmember with the later single-bolt trans mount.

William

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
Don't forget BBs used different crossmembers for both trans and a longer clutch cross-shaft. If you're using a manual trans I hear you can use the standard crossmember with the later single-bolt trans mount.
It might bolt together, but it isn't right. The big block crossmember moves the transmission 1/2" to the passenger side and 3/4" forward of the small blocks location. The single bolt mount will not do that !

This is why so many big block headers don't fit right. Don't try to cobble it ! Do it right !

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 01:40 PM
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

A BB is positioned 3/8" forward of the SB location as measured at the rear face of the block.

Using the rh [slotted] hole on the crossmember a single-bolt mount gets the job done. This isn't a restoration; massaging parts to fit and saving a couple hundred $ is part of the hobby.

As for 'right' goes a close friends' Z/28 was built with a BB crossmember. So were some '70 Yenko Deuce Novas.

William

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 02:07 PM
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Smile Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
A BB is positioned 3/8" forward of the SB location as measured at the rear face of the block.

Using the rh [slotted] hole on the crossmember a single-bolt mount gets the job done. This isn't a restoration; massaging parts to fit and saving a couple hundred $ is part of the hobby.

As for 'right' goes a close friends' Z/28 was built with a BB crossmember. So were some '70 Yenko Deuce Novas.
I am talking from where the transmission mounts. Where the back of the block is will be determined by the frame stands and the engine mounts.

Here is a picture with the two crossmembers overlayed.



Here are also a couple of pictures showing what happens with the wrong crossmember.





As far as using a BB crossmember with a small block... ever wonder what that driveline vibration was and what caused it ?

Your transmission output shaft must be parallel with your rear differentials input shaft. If it is not your driveline will be in a bind and you can have u-joint failures etc and/or driveline vibrations.

You also have header fitment issues and you blame the header mfg. when it is your own fault by not doing it right.

This is not a place where you would want to "try" and save a few bucks.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
A BB is positioned 3/8" forward of the SB location as measured at the rear face of the block.

Using the rh [slotted] hole on the crossmember a single-bolt mount gets the job done. This isn't a restoration; massaging parts to fit and saving a couple hundred $ is part of the hobby.

As for 'right' goes a close friends' Z/28 was built with a BB crossmember. So were some '70 Yenko Deuce Novas.
Ok, it sounds like it doesn't matter if I use the 67-68 or 69 frame stands as long as I use the correct engine mount. The 67-68 energy suspension mounts have the interlock design like the 69 did originally. So is this right? The 69 set up with the energy suspension mounts aren't any better than the 67-68 energy suspensions versions? Also, I'm have a TKO 600 with the cross member that came with it, so hopefully it's set up for a BB.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 02:45 PM
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Smile Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Yes, you are correct on the Energy Suspension mounts.

Measure your crossmember. There are many aftermarket company's don't know that big blocks are offset.

A small block's bolt pattern should be on center. A big block's pattern should be offset to the passenger side by 1/2" (your tape measure should show a 1" difference from side to side) Some company's slot the holes on the ends of the crossmember and claim that you can slide it towards the passenger side. They then claim the slots in the center are long enough to get the 3/4" forward slide. If yours is like this, look here if your headers are not fitting.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 03:44 PM
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Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

I worked in a Camaro business for many years. Plenty of our customers re-worked standard crossmembers to work with a BB. Once the engine is positioned on the correct stands/mounts it is simple to modify as needed.

Check this out: http://www.camaros.org/trans.shtml#Crossmembers

William

CRG www.camaros.org
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 11, 04:02 PM
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Smile Re: Are 69 Frame Motor Stands better than 67-68?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
I worked in a Camaro business for many years. Plenty of our customers re-worked standard crossmembers to work with a BB. Once the engine is positioned on the correct stands/mounts it is simple to modify as needed.

Check this out: http://www.camaros.org/trans.shtml#Crossmembers
That doesn't mean that your customers did it correctly ! How many of them put dents in their headers to make them fit ? Give me a torch and a welder and I can make anything fit !

I don't know what you are trying to prove with "your" CRG link... those pictures are from me and DjD !

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 TPI transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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