Ignition switch to starter intermittent - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 12, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
Gold Member
Todd
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Posts: 308
Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Ongoing problem with the 69 Z28.
Replaced the ignition switch, and neutral safety switch.
Took the car for a ride, got back home, key on ignition energized, no starter engagement(it has done this numerous times after cooldown it starts) and after cooldown this time no start. Pulled bulkhead connection underhood, purple wire to starter good connection. red to horn relay bus good connection (wrings good with my Radio Shack multimeter continuity check). Pulled battery and rang connection to voltage regulator(VR-70) and hornrelay no open connections?
Anyone have any idea where to go next. If I drive the car with a starter switch underhood it starts, although I think my stalling issue after its hot might be low voltage to ignition(I haven't checked that yet). Car is on jacks seats pulled to troubleshoot. I also have my original starter rebuilt to reinstall, but the starter in there is a unit I rebuilt recently.

Todd
VI018DZ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 12, 10:31 PM
Moderator
Brian
 
69-Pace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 10,709
Garage
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

When hot you get crank but no start or no crank-no start? Could be heat soak of the starter.


1969 Z11 Pace Car - L48 350cid/300hp - 4 Speed Muncie 12 bolt rear.

Super Moderator Team Camaro
Click here
to send me a private message
69-Pace is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 12, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
Gold Member
Todd
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Posts: 308
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

No crank hot, but if I ran a hotwire switch to the solenoid in the past, it would start.
I am replacing the starter while I have it up in the air.

Todd
VI018DZ is offline  
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 08:11 AM
Moderator
Brian
 
69-Pace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 10,709
Garage
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Starter might be fine but the attached solenoid may be the issue.


1969 Z11 Pace Car - L48 350cid/300hp - 4 Speed Muncie 12 bolt rear.

Super Moderator Team Camaro
Click here
to send me a private message
69-Pace is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 08:21 AM
Senior Tech
John
 
gramps68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Camarillo CA
Posts: 474
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Todd, I would change out the starter, and use the mini type. I have the mini with a heat blanket on it....no problems even with headers running by it. and nice ride

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing...a little's good, more's better, and too much is just enough

68 rs - Van Nuys original - one family car.....which still needs to be finished!
gramps68 is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
Gold Member
Todd
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Posts: 308
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

I've got a refurbished unit ready to go in, its the original 1108367 rebuilt starter. I rebuilt the one in the car now its a 1108367 unit as well, maybe my garage refurbishment of the solenoid didn't work so good, it's an original delco remy solenoid looks correct.
Todd
VI018DZ is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 09:48 AM
Senior Tech
Alan
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,903
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Hmm, per chance did you check the voltages at the solenoid at the no start condition? Hard to imagine that you would have heat soak yesterday as it was pretty cold here in SoCal.

I was having a similar issue, not as pronounced. Had the starter gone thru by an automotive starter shop (they replaced the solenoid with a new one). They cured it for me.

alan
alanrw is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
Gold Member
Todd
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Posts: 308
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Yes, voltage puple wire at solenoid "0 volts" ignition switch @ start position. Disconnect battery and run continuity nothing shows up.
VI018DZ is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 10:30 AM
Senior Tech
Steve
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Iowa City
Posts: 2,197
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

you mean you don't have continuity from the starter to the ingnition switch on the purple wire?

69 Pace Car and 69 Hard top
srode is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 10:59 AM
Super Moderator
Jake-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 29,444
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

With the above Post 6 symptom and being a '69 Z/28, clutch switch can be a problem if not an open circuit elsewhere.
Ign sw replaced/adjusted on column and still hot start problem, I offer the following:
1. Move ground cable to the block as the present return path back to battery from starter case is through the block, the head, intake manifold, upper alt bracket, and finally, the cable. Shorten the path.
2. Check battery voltage during cranking or no crank. Battery voltage below 9.5 VDC, low charge on battery, either a too small battery, not enough recharge time, or too low of recharge voltage. Also, check voltage between solenoid stud and battery post, not on the terminations. Same goes for the return path, motor case to negative post. Measurement should be less than 1 volt during cranking. This measurement tells you the amount of voltage dropped across the current path. Do the same for the purple wire at the solenoid - stud to post measurement. Count the connections in this one circuit.
3. Battery cables too small of gauge/size. GM in their design to price thinking, installed the smallest cable size to get the car through warranty. Min size wire is 1/0 gauge with molded post clamp.
4. All the connections are low resistance as they cannot be accurately measured by the typical ohmmeter, one needs a low-ohmmeter to measure the resistance. Suggestion here would be disconnect each connection from battery positive post through the start circuit, through the starter and the ground path and wire brush the terminal rings and the item the rings are attached. This cleaning for the slip-on connectors of clutch switch would be a shot of contact cleaner.
5. Solenoid, the plastic end piece can come off as you know and one can rotate the copper bolts and the mating disc providing a 'new' contact surface.

As I stated about resistance, heat is its natural enemy. More heat, the higher the resistance, more current given up at the junction(s) or lack of wire size as heat, less current available for the starter motor.

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls.
'With age comes wisdom, but then wisdom ages you even more.'Other Stuff' CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 03:31 PM
Senior Tech
Alan
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,903
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Hmmm, at crank, I think you are supposed to have 12 V at the purple. Good idea to check the clutch safety switch. Any possibility the switch in the column (not the one you put the key in, but the one that is inside the column) needs adjusting?

Check this link out:
Purple-Yellow Starter Wires

alan
alanrw is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 06:29 PM
Senior Tech
Al
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, USA
Posts: 10,332
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Quote:
Originally Posted by VI018DZ View Post
Yes, voltage puple wire at solenoid "0 volts" ignition switch @ start position. Disconnect battery and run continuity nothing shows up.
When in this predicament, check voltage at every connection you can think of between the batt and the starter. Going from memory - accessory wire (fusible link) at pos batt terminal, junction block ahead of battery, horn relay bus, bulkhead connector, ign switch in & out, NSS in & out....Hopefully you will find good voltage up to the point of failure, then nada after that.

Also is your wiring new? Not unusual to see an original purple wire look good on the outside but be full of crud when you peel away the insulation

A wire can show good continuity and also be incapable of carrying required current

the fact that you can run a hot from the batt to the R terminal and it cranks normally tells me that the solenoid is fine and that the problem is in the wiring
BPOS is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
Gold Member
Todd
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Posts: 308
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

Yes, no voltage at purple wire, when it won't start. This time when it failed hard (wouldn't restart even after cool down). I removed bulkhead harness connector to starter and contiuity to the starter was good. Continuity check was with my multimeter which reads open unless resistance is less than 50 ohms. Removed battery connections, battery terminal, horn relay terminals, voltage reg connector all passed 50 ohms check. Checked dash harness red power in to purple wire out to starter good. Thought maybe an intermittent fuse link when hot.
VI018DZ is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
Gold Member
Todd
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Posts: 308
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

I am going to remove the column and dig into harness some more, all harnesses are new except under dash. Had M&H go through this one and add new connectors/recheck. The purple wire is suspect to me somewhere, just can't isolate where.

Todd
VI018DZ is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 12, 10:51 PM
Senior Tech
Al
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, USA
Posts: 10,332
Re: Ignition switch to starter intermittent

You do realize that ign switch is adjustable? It mounts on top of the column on slotted holes. Is it possible it's just out of adjustment?
BPOS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome