T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap - Page 2 - Team Camaro Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #16 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 07, 06:21 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

More info and a correction that may be useful.

After dealing with hundreds of chassis customers that are using T56 trans, we have found there is more than three different types of T56's in regard to the rear mount location. We have identified four different types, and there are more out there. So, when purchasing a mount for your T56, be prepared to do some fabrication.

Transmission to floor clearance Jim is pretty tight, but it fits without hitting. The shifter is righter where your hand would be if you dropped it from the steering wheel to the tunnel. Because it is more rearward than a Muncie, you will need to use a stick that is straight up instead of curved.

Matt Jones
Lead Mechanical Engineer
Art Morrison Ent. Inc.
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post #17 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 07:09 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Thanks Matt, But would you happen to have a measurement? I have a 67 Rs and purchased a 68 console kit, and found out the shifter location is different. The 67 being more forward, I beleive. Can you relocate the counsole around the shift without it looking goofy? I you can get me a measurement on diiference in distance from the stock 67 to T56 or the stock 68 to T56, would be great.

Thanks Jim
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post #18 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 08:13 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
Thanks Matt, But would you happen to have a measurement? I have a 67 Rs and purchased a 68 console kit, and found out the shifter location is different. The 67 being more forward, I beleive. Can you relocate the counsole around the shift without it looking goofy? I you can get me a measurement on diiference in distance from the stock 67 to T56 or the stock 68 to T56, would be great.

Thanks Jim
You can indeed move the console around without really noticing.

The question I have to ask you is what T56 do you have? There are several different models with different shifter locations. The two things I need from you are:

Measurement from back of engine block (or bellhousing mating surface) to trans mount centerline, and-
Year, make, and model from the vehicle it came from

Get back to me with these and hopefully I can help.

Matt Jones
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post #19 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
Thanks Matt, But would you happen to have a measurement? I have a 67 Rs and purchased a 68 console kit, and found out the shifter location is different. The 67 being more forward, I beleive. Can you relocate the counsole around the shift without it looking goofy? I you can get me a measurement on diiference in distance from the stock 67 to T56 or the stock 68 to T56, would be great.

Thanks Jim
I believe Matt (Silver69Camaro) was talking about the rear mount on the transmission where it is bolted to the transmission cross-member, not the location of the shifter access hole in the transmission tunnel. His point is why I recommended the adjustable cross member from ATS, which can be further adjusted by drilling new crossmember bolt holes in the subframe if needed.

As for your question, I'm not sure the '67 had a more forward shifter location than the '68's. I have a '68 console around my T56 shifter and don't consider it to look "goofy," but then "goofy" like "beauty" may be in the eye of the beholder. Even so, I would mock up the T56, figure out where to cut and then cut, rather than relying on someone else's measurement.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #20 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 09:08 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Originally Posted by Mkelcy View Post
Even so, I would mock up the T56, figure out where to cut and then cut, rather than relying on someone else's measurement.
That's what I did. Mock it up, mark where the shifter is, then start cutting.

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post #21 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 10:02 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

What about the McLeod SlickStix (sp?) shifter? Don't they make one for the T56 that relocates it, like in the TKOs? Has anyone used one?

Scott from NJ. Stay thirsty, my friends


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post #22 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 10:16 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

I don't have a T56 yet. From what vehicle should I be looking for? 98 and up LS1 Camaro/Firebird ? I was going to go with the TKO 5spd, but am now considering the T56 with a adapter plate for the muncie bell housing with mechanical linkage. The TKO with correct shifter will put me in the stock location. I am not very concerned with the crossmember, just the shifter location.

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post #23 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
What about the McLeod SlickStix (sp?) shifter? Don't they make one for the T56 that relocates it, like in the TKOs? Has anyone used one?
McLeod sells a SlikStix shifter that mounts in the standard T56 location and, by means of offset arms, relocates the shifter handle wherever (within reason) you want it. It would likely solve console relocation issues, but you'll still have to make a hole for shifter access about 6" back from the factory 4-speed hole.

McLeod doesn't sell a forward mounted SlikStix shifter, but Red Roberts (who used to own Mcleod) does under the corporate name "Driveline Components." Installation requires removal and modification (drilling and shortening, IIRC) of the shift rail, which Red recommends be done by an experienced transmission technician. In addition, you need to know what offset (side to side and front to rear) you want on the shifter when you order it; so plan on mocking up first. The shifter is about $300, plus if you don't do it yourself, the cost of removing, modifying and reinstalling the shift rail. The forward mounted SlikStix shifter should come up in the stock 4 speed shifter access hole in a first generation F body, and also solves the console relocation issue.

I'm installing a Viper T56 in my '68 project car, with the McLeod Modular bellhousing, swapped in LS1 T56 input shaft, swapped front intermediate plate (for the mechanical clutch linkage) and plan on going this route for the shifter, but it doesn't appear to be too easy (or cheap) an install.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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Last edited by Mkelcy; Jan 26th, 07 at 04:58 PM. Reason: New info.
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post #24 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 04:25 PM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

I don't think anyone has given a measurement yet so:

The stock shifter location on my '99 Camaro T-56 is 5" behind that on my Muncie with a high mounted Hurst Super Shifter. My car was originally equipped with an automatic, so I had to cut the hole and modify the tunnel for the huge Hurst/Muncie combo. I think that this shifter was designed to fit near the loacation of the stock '68's shifter???

Honestly, I like the location of the T-56 shifter. I'm fairly short (5'7") and always felt like I had to reach for the straight handle on the Muncie. With the T-56, my arm can pretty much rest on the trans tunnel to shift!!

Paul D.

68RS/Z28 Klone, Long rod 357 , T-56, 3.89 9"
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post #25 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 06:56 PM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Keisler's now sells the T56 6-speed kit for the first gen Camaros. It is supposed to be a bolt-in without cutting the tranny tunnel or anything.
http://www.keislerauto.com/gm/transm...67-69_6spd.asp Does anyone have any experience with their kit? How does their cost of $4,300 compare with doing it yourself?

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302DZ, M22W Muncie, GV overdrive,12-Bolt Rear 3.73
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post #26 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Originally Posted by X33D80 View Post
Keisler's now sells the T56 6-speed kit for the first gen Camaros. It is supposed to be a bolt-in without cutting the tranny tunnel or anything.
Why don't you call and ask them how they do a bolt in T56 that doesn't require any cutting of the transmission tunnel and let us know?

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #27 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 08:31 PM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Why don't you call and ask them how they do a bolt in T56 that doesn't require any cutting of the transmission tunnel and let us know?
And if they say it's a special shifter, ask them if it will work on an LS1 T56, and how much.

If I didn't have a LS1 T56 sitting here, and I was willing to drop that much cash, I'd be hard pressed not to get a TKO from CC5S.

Scott from NJ. Stay thirsty, my friends


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post #28 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
And if they say it's a special shifter, ask them if it will work on an LS1 T56, and how much.

If I didn't have a LS1 T56 sitting here, and I was willing to drop that much cash, I'd be hard pressed not to get a TKO from CC5S.
I don't think you can avoid cutting a hole for shifter access with a special shifter mounted in the standard T56 shifter location. If the Keisler kit is a bolt in, they're likely doing a front mounted shifter.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #29 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 26th, 07, 09:45 PM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

An LS T56 in a first gen camaro is tricky if you are trying to achieve stock console location. The stock shifter location for a 68-69 Camaro is at about 23.5" back from where the bell meets the engine block. The rear most shifter position for the LS T56 is about 29" back from where the bell meets the block. The further forward shifter location on the LS T56 is approximately 19.5" back from the engine block. So you have three choices:
1) Mount a Slik Stix shifter from Red (Driveline Components) in the rear most location with the longest forward offset avaialble (I think it is 4") - this wil get you close to stock location.
2) Mount a slik stix in the further forward location and choose a rearward offset as far as possible. This may not be the best choice as you will need to remove the tailshaft and cut the shifter rail in order to install the shifter. This equals extra $$ to have this done.
3) Move you console to wherever the T56 positions the shifter. This is easiest and least expensive. I think this can be done without having the console too goofy.
In my view, if you intend to install a 6 speed, you should go into it understanding that you will need to do some mods/customization - there is nothing wrong with this. It is all about personal preference.

If stock console location is important to you, install a TKO 5-speed and you will get all the overdrive you need as well as stock console location.

I have a car with an LS T56 and a LS motor and I have a car with a carburated small blcok and a TKO. Both of them are fun and both give plenty of overdrive.

In my view the 6-speeds are best suited for guys running LS motors that were made to operate with a 6-speed trans with a deep overdrive, guys who are truely road racing their cars at high speeds (80 mph +) and need a better 4th-5th gear shift than a 5-speed can offer, or guys that would just like to say they have 6 gears instead of 5. Any of these reasons are valid reasons.


If you have any further specific questions or need specific measurements feel free to call.


You can use a slik stix shifter from Mcleod

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Jeff Mortenson


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post #30 of 224 (permalink) Old Jan 27th, 07, 04:51 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Originally Posted by Mkelcy View Post
Why don't you call and ask them how they do a bolt in T56 that doesn't require any cutting of the transmission tunnel and let us know?
I have talked to Keisler's and was told the shifter has been relocated with their custom tailhousing to the first gen Camaro location and assured me there will be no cutting of the car's sheet metal plus they added a cable drive for the speedometer. The T56 with the 2.66 first gear and the double overdrives interests me because my car has the original 4.56 rear gears and a high RPM power range 302 engine. I feel the TKO600 .64 OD is too large of a gap between 4th and 5th gear and the 2.87 first gear is way too low for my 4.56 rear. I would have a "dead zone" between about 40 and 52 MPH in which 4th spins the engine too fast, and 5th spins the engine too slow. The 302 wants no less than ~ 2,000 for cruising. The T56 fifth gear is .74 OD and not as wide a gap from 4th gear and the .50 6th gear would be used for interstate driving. Where I live I would have to drive about an hour just to find a road with speed limits greater than 55 MPH so a lot of my driving will be at the 45 to 55 MPH speeds. I really wish either transmission had a closer ratio with a first gear of the 2.40 range.

Also under consideration is the TKO600 with 2.87 1st gear and .82 5th gear OD and change out the rear gear to 3.73 or 3.90. In the end the total cost for either the T56 or TKO600 plus new rear gears is similar and in the end I feel the T56 gives me a wider range of usable gears.

For the record I presently I have a M21 Muncie 4-speed with 2.20 first gear and no overdrive. My first gear ratio of 10.03 (4.56 x 2.20) seems to work well.

Skunk Works
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Last edited by Andrew69; Jan 27th, 07 at 03:32 PM.
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