T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap - Page 5 - Team Camaro Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #61 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 07, 08:30 PM
 
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

yes, the kit fits just as well in the 68 and 69. I will have some pics of a 69 in the next few days and I will post them to.
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post #62 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 10:47 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

I spent a solid week looking up threads and reading every bit of information available on the T56 swap for a 67. I couldn't find any negative forum feedback (On any board) nor could I find an internet article that had negative remarks about the Keisler swap.
I did find a few complaints about other suppliers who provide these direct T56 swaps but only about Tunnel Modification and that's been discussed here before. You could save money by going with a different company (as much as $500) but your going to have to modify your tunnel. They say it's just a small cut on your tunnel but it's not that small from the pictures I've seen.
Personally, any cut is one too many.
If that means as much to you as it does to me, then the only option available today is the Keisler Direct fit.
I just ordered one for my 67 yesterday.

I will post any problems that come up along the way including customer support and I will take plenty of pictures along the way.

Good luck on your swap and your decision.

Rich

AFR Heads W/ Jesel valve train

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post #63 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 02:12 PM
 
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Rich, if you have any questions at all when you get around to the install or about anythign else in your kit give me a call. My name is Nick I have built these transmissions for years and now I am in the Tech Group. When you call press ext 207 if you have any questions thats my direct line.
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post #64 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 04:20 PM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by t88supra View Post
Rich, if you have any questions at all when you get around to the install or about anythign else in your kit give me a call. My name is Nick I have built these transmissions for years and now I am in the Tech Group. When you call press ext 207 if you have any questions thats my direct line.
Nick, I really appreciate the offer. My plans are to install within 3-4 weeks after everything arrives. I will be sure to write this down and keep it for future use.


Rich

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post #65 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 07, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

A few observations and a little math. Please note that all measurements should be deemed to be approximate because of car-to-car differences.

The factory four speed shifter hole in '68-'69 Camaros is supposed to be (I've not personally measured this dimension, but believe it to be correct) 17.4" back from the rear of the factory bellhousing, which is itself about 6.4" deep. Using those dimensions, the center of the factory four speed shifter hole in '68-'69 Camaros is about 23.8" back from the rear of the engine. The corresponding dimensions (again, I've not personally measured, but believe them to be correct) in a '67 Camaro are 16.8" and 23.2".

The center of the shifter on a Viper T56 transmission is 20" from the bellhousing face of the transmission and an LT1 T56 bellhousing is 4.9" deep. Based on those dimensions, it appears that if you used an LT1 T56 bellhousing (which will bolt right up to a Viper T56 and a traditional SBC) and a Viper T56, the center of the shifter would be 24.9" back from the rear of the engine, placing the center of the shifter about 1.1" back from the center of the four speed shifter hole in '68-'69 Camaros and about 1.7" back from the center of the four speed shifter hole in a '67 Camaro.

A 2.66:1 first gear LT1 input shaft will swap into a Viper T56, and you could likely use an after market hydraulic throwout bearing to activate a traditional "push" style clutch.

I believe this would all work if, like the Keisler installation pictured below, you used a crossmember that kept the large portion of the T56 shifter entirely below the floor of the Camaro; that is, with only the shifter handle projecting into the car. This might raise pinion angle issues, but those could be easily corrected in most cars by the use of angled leaf spring shims or adjusting the arms in a 3 or 4 link rear.


So in summary:
Can a T56 be installed without cutting the floor of a '67-'69 Camaro? Yes, I think so.
Can it only be done using proprietary parts? I don't think so.
Please note it may also be posible to do this swap using an Aftermarket T56, whose shifter is also 20" back from the bellhousing face of the transmission, an LT1 bellhousing and an LT1 input shaft from a 2.97:1 first gear LT1 T56.

I have not personally done any of these swaps, but it certainly looks promising if you want to do this swap without cutting the floor of your Camaro.

Quote:

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #66 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 07, 05:50 PM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

What does it take to install the hydraulic master cylinder and clutch parts? Do you have to drill into the firewall to mount brackets or anything?

Skunk Works
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post #67 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 07, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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What does it take to install the hydraulic master cylinder and clutch parts? Do you have to drill into the firewall to mount brackets or anything?
I'd use the ATS bracket available at www.t56kit.com.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #68 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 07, 05:55 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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What does it take to install the hydraulic master cylinder and clutch parts? Do you have to drill into the firewall to mount brackets or anything?
Our master cylinder will mount on the firewall in the same place that the factory pedal pushrod comes thru the firewall. Should already have the holes there. Our hydraulic system does not use an external slave cylinder so that being said, there is no modification needed to the firewall either.

Richard
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post #69 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 07, 05:18 AM
 
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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post #70 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 07, 05:20 AM
 
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Ok the pic above is a 1969 camaro with a dynacorn body.
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post #71 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 07, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

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Originally Posted by t88supra View Post


Ok the pic above is a 1969 camaro with a dynacorn body.
As I understand it, the Dynacorn bodies don't come from Dynacorn with the shifter hole pre-cut, so this picture is useful to show how high the shifter on the T56 is relative to the floor pan of the car using the Keisler cross member, but doesn't tell us a lot about where the shifter falls (fore/aft left right) relative to the factory shifter hole.

Mike - '68 Camaro with lots of stuff done to it.


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post #72 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 07, 07:37 AM
 
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

Your exactly right about the body not coming with the hole precut. I am trying to get pictures from some of our other customers only problem being that most of them are driving the cars now with a console and carpet. I will see what I can do that pic above is to show that you will not have to cut between the shifter and the firewall at all.
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post #73 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 07, 08:59 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

I have a Viper kit going out the door today and I re-checked the measurements on the tranny. The stub is 24" back from the front of the clutch housing(where it bolts to the block) and it is 3/8" offset to the drivers side of the tranny.

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post #74 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 07, 04:10 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

If I see a fault in this set up it would be that the Hurst shifter handle bolts up approximately 3" higher than it would when mounted to a Muncie transmission. The upper mounting bolt in my car is about even with the sheet metal and in these photos it is much higher. I wonder if the original GM design of shifter boot, which is pretty short, will accommodate this? Are there any options to lower the shifter handle mounting location? I am not asking to lower the transmission, but maybe make that shifter stub a little shorter.

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post #75 of 224 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 07, 05:10 AM
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Re: T56 Information - First Generation Camaro Swap

This is another "great post." Mike, your initial research and posting are stellar, and the 5 pages of discussion and additional info simply amazing. Seems you guys have taken a LOT of the mystery out of what has previously been a "tough swap" that should "not be tried at home."

This is now stickied. Unfortunately, it's stickied in electrical, but that's where I have the power....


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