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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 12, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
Sweens
 
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Starting issue on my '69

I've had some issue with my Camaro not starting after it has been driven for a little while...Once I turn it off, it won't start again until it cools down. The starter does not engage at all, so I have narrowed it down to the Soleniod and installed a new one (along with a heat shield) but did not solve the problem.

I checked the ground(s), and I am about to change the starter, but think it might not be the issue...

Has anyone had any simialr issues with thier First Gen??

Any suggestions would be much appreciated...396 (factory exhaust manifolds)...4-speed

Tim
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 12, 10:19 AM
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jeff
 
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

I've had this issue many times, its the starter that gets damaged via the heat. So replace the full complete starter and use a heat wrap material.

Jeff G.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 12, 10:41 AM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Do a forum search on "starter" there are hundreds of posts that cover the issue. If you end up replacing your starter, concider a perminate magnet starter like used in the 4th gen Camaro. They are inexpensive and only weight a couple pounds...

...Dennis
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 12, 12:15 PM
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Matt
 
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Read this thread... I had exact same issues and it turned out to be a faulty ignition switch in my case.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
Sweens
 
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

As most can see form my original post date, I have yet to solve my starting issue when the car gets hot. It does start once the car cools down (about 20 mins), but fires right up once the engine cools...

I've changed the selanoid installed a heat shield to no avail, and now I recently replaced the original (style) starter with a new Powermaster gear-reduction starter and the original problem still occurs, it will not start when it is hot...

I have been told to check the timing, battery, engine ground, but all seems to be fine...

Looking for any other suggestions...?
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 09:31 AM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
As most can see form my original post date, I have yet to solve my starting issue when the car gets hot. It does start once the car cools down (about 20 mins), but fires right up once the engine cools...

I've changed the selanoid installed a heat shield to no avail, and now I recently replaced the original (style) starter with a new Powermaster gear-reduction starter and the original problem still occurs, it will not start when it is hot...

I have been told to check the timing, battery, engine ground, but all seems to be fine...

Looking for any other suggestions...?
Have you checked for fuel peculation? If all systems are fine and the car cranks fast but does not start, you may be boiling the fuel in the carburetor after the engine gets hot. You need a spacer to act as a heat diverted between the intake and the carburetor.

Kev
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 09:42 AM
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Al
 
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

The problem is likely somewhere in your car's wiring. As your starter gets hot, resistance naturally increases in the solenoid windings. If you have dirty/corroded/worn contacts in the wiring between the battery and the purple S wire on your solenoid - which also add increased resistance - it can't overcome this extra resistance from the solenoid and you get nothing.

The solution is to either clean/check/repair the wiring and/or contacts - and there are a lot of them to check - or to wire in a relay or a Ford type solenoid.

The relay or Ford solenoid is a bandaid fix, but it works very well. Where normally the S wire would have to carry 20 or more amps when the engine is hot, with the relay in place it has to carry less than one amp. If the wiring can deliver enough current to start the car when the engine is cold, with the realy in place it will also start the car when it's hot.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 10:48 AM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Question; When you say the starter doesn't engage, do you hear the solenoid click?
Is there any indication that the starter system even exists when it's hot? Where is your battery located, under the hood?
How do you know your battery is OK?
Well, that's more than one question.

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new)
RS SS Hugger Orange, L88, 4:10's tru-tack posi, ducted hood, Endura, spoilers.
TH400 (CX) with Coan 8" converter, GV-OD, 8 track still on console and best et 10.495, 128.79mph 1.428 60'
All with 1960's stuff. (except tires and converter)
+ MT Super Scavenger headers & 3" full exhaust with X pipe. 3700 lbs. with me in it.
1000cfm AED and HD Harold-Lunati SR, 725 lift with shaft rockers too.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/
http://ss427.net/
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 11:57 AM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

If all connections are in good condition, that leaves 2 options
1/If orginal wiring, and at some time in the cars history the ign / starter wire has been shorted, the surface layer of the strands of the wires in the insulation have become oxidised...current flows down the surfaces, not the core of a wire....this causes resitance with the same effect as a bad battery terminal... A relay mounted on the firewall just above the starter fixes this problem perminently.
2/Due to a high intial advance over a long period, which puts huge current loads on the armiture, causes dry/ bad joints in the armiture.
This may not be your car... if it was a rebuilt unit there is a good chance the armiture was not tested in a growler before rebuilding...
Fix is replace starter.
There is not enough heat able to be transfered from headers to case, to internals to damge a starter, but there is enough to warm the starter armiture enough to have any faulty connections in the armiture (or solenoid) to cause thses symtoms.

There is good reason why car manfactures , around the world, dont have intial above 10 degs... yet back yard people think they know better and wack intials advance up....this also increases the rate of the stock curve with performance increase, and puts a little more into the total, again a little better performace....over do it starter issues over time and inaudaitble detontaion slow death of the engine.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 12:18 PM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

I posted my fuel answer after the OP stated he changed and checked everything related to starting circuit. I wish people knew the difference between " Not Starting " and " Not Cranking " or cranking slow.!!! There is a BIG difference in both problems. If the started is spinning fast..its not a starter or battery issue!!! In any event, seeing it must be either slow or no crank type issue AND the starter and grounds were checked, a battery issue could cause this and an ignition switch, bad coil which will fail until it cools off, also..not to mention bad wiring. IF ..all is fine the re..check the fuel issue as I stated earlier.

Kev
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 02:47 PM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Have you taken a voltage reading at the ignition wire to the solenoid when this issue occurs? Next time this happens, crawl under the car and take a voltage reading while someone is holding the key in the start position. I did this and found the voltage to be 0.5 Volts, turned out to be a bad ignition switch.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 5th, 12, 03:21 PM
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Jonathan Burns
 
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Meatball- what distributer did you have? I had the same problem and the igniter pickup in the distributer was fried so I ended up having to buy a new one, also bought a new starter and coil my 67 runs like a champ now. Hope this info helps, love this sight. New to it.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 12, 12:18 PM
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Fred
 
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns67ss View Post
Meatball- what distributer did you have? I had the same problem and the igniter pickup in the distributer was fried so I ended up having to buy a new one, also bought a new starter and coil my 67 runs like a champ now. Hope this info helps, love this sight. New to it.
Welcome! It's great to have folks who know what an igniter is.
Psst, come close so I don't have to shout,,,,,,, what's an igniter?

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new)
RS SS Hugger Orange, L88, 4:10's tru-tack posi, ducted hood, Endura, spoilers.
TH400 (CX) with Coan 8" converter, GV-OD, 8 track still on console and best et 10.495, 128.79mph 1.428 60'
All with 1960's stuff. (except tires and converter)
+ MT Super Scavenger headers & 3" full exhaust with X pipe. 3700 lbs. with me in it.
1000cfm AED and HD Harold-Lunati SR, 725 lift with shaft rockers too.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/
http://ss427.net/
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 12, 12:34 PM
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Jonathan Burns
 
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Fred Ficarra, the ingniter to your pickup coil in your distributor is what sends the spark to your spark plugs so your engine fires up, it's basically an ignition box in your distributor was the problem I had with my 67 the igniter was fried so my engine wasn't getting a spark. I ended up putting in a new distributor and she fired up on a dime cold and hot. So I recommend looking inside your distributor and check if its bad or not.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 12, 07:59 PM
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Re: Starting issue on my '69

Quote:
Welcome! It's great to have folks who know what an igniter is.
Psst, come close so I don't have to shout,,,,,,, what's an igniter?
Quote:
Fred Ficarra, the ingniter to your pickup coil in your distributor is what sends the spark to your spark plugs so your engine fires up, it's basically an ignition box in your distributor was the problem I had with my 67 the igniter was fried
Are we talking points here or what?

68 302 M20 - 85 IROC Z
The older I get the faster I was.
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