HI, I just put new stock body mounts and drop the motor and tranny in. So for the first time I jacked it up from the front cross member to intall the shifter and I see the both body mounts under the front seats are floating?
So I figure no sweat let her down , Jack just one side of the sub at a time and tighten down the body bolts. Wrong the bolts are pretty much torqued out! Anybody heard of this? It cant be good.

Are the shanks of the bolts too long? Not enough threaded area on them? Did you forget the bottom half of the bushings?

I checked the shank part before I put them in and it was a little less than the width of the biscut.Its possible its threaded out but I can still turn them it just takes over 80 ftlb. I wish I forgot the bottom half of the bushings.lol.
It seems the slack is coming from the bottom bushing. As I jack it up the bottom bushing becomes almost completely flat. Should it be like that before I jack it up? I kinda tried that but its sooo tight to turn just doestn seem right.

Could it be possible that you received a set of bushings from another car, that was mispackaged? What is the height of the metal hat washer? Didnt you say that you were using poly bushings?

There's no way it can bottom out the threads if just one half of the bushings is thicker than the non-threaded shank of the bolts.
You say "stock" bushings so I'm assuming you're using 2-piece rubber bushings.
Something ain't right....

At this pointI wish I bought a poly set! From what I could measure the back bushing is 3/4 in. tall. The metal hat is super thin. Here I just edited a pic in. This is jacked up from the front.

http://www.solisstyle.com/ims/pic.php?u=2611JqfVP&i=26519

That's torqued down all the way??

What happens to the top half of the bushing if you jack the car up from under the frame near that bushing?
It looks like the bushings are incorrect or something.
:confused:

It looks like the washer on the bottom is too small and squishing out the bottom half of it and possibly the hole in the frame is too large (did the bushing fit snug into the hole on the frame ?).
I found a drawing I made on the rear bushings I have from PST (polygraphite) and the top bushing insert with the washer that is welded to the tube is 1.410 OAL (overall length).
I'll do some looking in the garage and see if I can find anything else for you like maybe the bottom washer diameter.
In the below link in the middle of the page is what I have for the rear bushing on my 74 Nova (should be the same as the 69 Camaro).

http://hometown.aol.com/krystaldesigns/page7.html

Jim

I didnt really have time to check good but I might be bottoming out on the insert that pentrates through the frame. I'll have to check. The kit I have says fits chevy 67-74? theres a name and part #'s but I have to check tomorrow. Thanks for all the help gang.
Brad

get some poly bushings and be done with it.
those rubber ones are a pain and yes after looking at mine yours a quite a bit different.
seems like you got a set for another car.

There's no front sheetmetal on this car, right?
But the motor and trans are in?

I do not think we're looking at a problem at all. Looks pretty normal for rubber bushings.It will stiffen up when the sheetmetal is on.

Or switch to poly.

The washer on the bottom isn't big enough in diameter. It need to cover the entire bushing. The load carrying part of the bushing is on the outter edges, and without a large enough washer, there is no support for this part of the bushing.
From the picture, it looks like you might have the wrong bottom bushing anyway. All of the ones that I've seen are more square-sided (like the top bushing), and this one looks more rounded. Unless it's just from being squeezed down so much.

hi there, look at the bottom part of your top bushing it should be down inside the frame rail and the bottom bushing should be hollow inside to receive that portion of the top bushing, so either you dont have the top bushing installed into the frame, or the diameter of the bottom portion of your top bushing is to large,its pretty plain in your picture, good luck regards tom

HI guys, I will buy the polys if I know it will fix the prob. This photo is the same kit. I put the upper left 2 on the back. I'm going to screw with it tomorrow.

Hey JimM, Have you seen this before? Do you or anyone else have a pic of the installed poly?

http://www.solisstyle.com/ims/pic.php?u=2611JqfVP&i=26784

Install SOLID's and be done with it. A total of 4 bushings (don't use the front rediator support one's) between the body and the frame and that's it. No fussing. That is, if your bushing mount holes are exactly 1.5" diameter.

I'll see what I can do about some pics tomorrow. Have fresh poly's on it, just need to torque em down, then I'll lift it from the cradle and see what happens.

What I saw on mine, before I took the old bad ones off, is that it did not do what yours is doing when the sheetmetal was on it, even with bad bushings. With the sheetmetal off, it looked like it was gonna fold up like a pretzel.

The rubber has a certain amount of give, ya know? and the sheetmetal traingulates everything and becomes part of the structure. The washers are the same OD as the bushings, right? and the center metal peice is in there, that's what you're really tightening the bolt on, not the rubber.

Has anyone else done that trick? bet five bucks we'd all be as scared as spidey is.

Hey on that pic, if they supposed to be in some sort of order, it don't look right... u do have the gozintas and the comesoutus matched up, right?

The biggest pair goes at the firewall, second biggest under the seats, comesoutus between the body and the frame, pointing down.

Yes thats the way I have it. That sounds right, once the rad. support is on and then the fenders to support it should be much stronger.
Like you said Im a little spooked to move on. I have sunday off so I'll fool with it then.

hey spidey, i have put many subrame bushing kits on, and the bushings should sqeeze a little bit and it will tighten the subrame to the body tight there wont be any slop or movement, by looking at your pics of the bushing kit you showed those upper 2 bushing look as though they are you core support bushings those wont work on your subframe you should have got a piece of paper with your kit they show you the placement for each bushing thaey have part# on them, goodluck regards tom

one other thing to add since your at this stage of assembly, once you get your bushings in the right places,lightly tighten them so you can still move your subframe, pull your subframe as far forward until it stops. then torque your bolts to 90 pounds. if your frame is to far back you can have problems such as sheetmetal alignment on the front and also the front tire can set to far back number one it doesnt look very good and number two the tires can rub on the fender skirts in a tight turn, trust me ive been there done it, ive learned all this through the school of hard knocks, just trying to save you some aggravation, take care tom

And an HEI distributor will fit better.
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

yes thats true too joe

Boy, the things I do for you guys... Finished 2 detail items I been putting off for no reason so's I could pop up a pick or two... So anyway, I measured my alignment, perfectly square but a 1/4" short... loosened everything and wiggled, got 65 5/8, a lil long bot should give me a decent door opening for a change. Torqued all four to 90 ft lbs, put my jack under the cradle, picked it up, and shot this:
http://home.comcast.net/~jimragtop/bushing.jpg
Kinda hard to see past all the heavy metal welded to the floor on a vert, but looks like the energy suspension poly bushing have zero distortion.

Hey guys, I am a bit confused....I am running the solid bushings from CE. All I have on the underside of the subframe at the mid and read mounting points is a big washer. I didnt see any reason to use and old worn rubber bushing on the bottom side. Does this sound right? Should I have something other than a washer on the bottom side?

Thanks

Bob

Originally posted by HwyStarJoe:
(don't use the front rediator support one's) Why is that? I thought all 6 came with solid kits?

Originally posted by 69vert:
Hey guys, I am a bit confused....I am running the solid bushings from CE. All I have on the underside of the subframe at the mid and read mounting points is a big washer. I didnt see any reason to use and old worn rubber bushing on the bottom side. Does this sound right? Should I have something other than a washer on the bottom side?

Thanks

Bob I don't have this kit but their instructions say to use to old upper ones on the lower side. This is the reason I'm not going with the CE option. Doesn't make sense to me but here they are...

INSTALLATION
We recommend that you replace the bushings one side at a time.
1. Jack up and support the chassis in four places with jack stands.
2. Starting at the radiator support, loosen and remove the factory bolt. Remember to replace one bushing at a
time.
3. Using a prybar, separate the core support from the frame and remove the factory radiator support bushing.
4. Retain the upper half of stock body bushings, these will be used as the lower bushings in this installation.
5. Install Moroso aluminum bushing with step towards recess, (found in unibody or subframe, depends on car)
6. Invert the upper stock body bushing and install it where the lower bushing had been.
7. Re-install the bolt but do not tighten completely at this time.
8. Next loosen and remove the middle body bushing. Replace it with one of the supplied 2-1/2” bushings.
9. Re-install the bolt but do not tighten completely at this time.
10. Repeat the process for the rear bushing, replacing it with one of the supplied 2-1/2” bushings.
11. Follow steps 2-10 for the opposite side of the vehicle.
12. With all the bushings installed, begin to align the subframe with the body.
a. Locate the alignment holes on the middle body bushing-mounting bracket.
b. Using a 1/2” diameter pin (a piece of re-bar is fine), line up the subframe mounting holes with the
corresponding holes in the body.
c. With the holes in alignment, tighten the frame bolts to 70-ft/lbs.
13. Lower the vehicle to the ground. Re-check the torque on all bolts routinely as vibration might cause them to
become loose.
Note: If the stock body bushings and hardware are too deteriorated for re-use, new replacement parts must be
purchased and utilized.

I got these instructions off Summit's site.

Originally posted by bigdawginva:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HwyStarJoe:
(don't use the front rediator support one's) Why is that? I thought all 6 came with solid kits? </font>[/QUOTE]I've heard more than once not to use the solids in front because they'll stiffen the front sheetmetal\grill area too much and rattle things apart. Makes sense to me. I'm using the rubber bushings for the radiator support when I bolt it on. Plus I see no reason to put solid bushings up there. Maybe in an all-out race car, but not a daily driven or weekend cruiser.

I bolted my sub to the body with nothing but the solid bushings between them. I didn't use the old rubber bushings below (inside the frame). Again, what's the sense? It seems counter-productive to me. You'd have to squeeze the living crap out of the lower rubber bushing in order to keep the upper solid bushing from popping out of the mount hole. As the body and frame take their loads over bumps, pot holes, in and out of driveways, all I see is the solid bushing coming loose because the lower rubber bushing will flex.
There are solid bushing kits made that sandwich the frame between two SOLID bushings.... no rubber. Now THAT makes more sense to me than using a rubber bushing with a solid.

[ 02-13-2005, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: HwyStarJoe ]

Got it. Thanks. So I assume that people that buy the 6 piece solid kits discard their front ones. Shame the solid kits don't come with just the rear 4. Seems a bit of a waste.

Wonder why the CE instructions take the approach it does with the lowers. Has anyone written to them suggesting their instructions don't make sense? I wonder if the other solid kits use that approach.

Doesn't matter as I've decided to go with the ES poly approach since I'm not excited about discarding new parts I just bought or having to reuse old items I'm trying to replace anyway.

I tried foolen with the stock bushings today. Seems the flat washer is bottoming out on the middle insert. So Its poly from here.

Hey JimM, What brand Poly is that? I'm going to get the set you have. Looks great!

Energy Suspension

I used Energy Suspension poly and wouldn't use anything else. I sure wouldn't use the old rubbers, they are too soft when new, and I'm not a fan of solids either. I think that poly fall right in between the other 2 options. As far as you guys using the solid bushings, I would sure as HE77 call the manufacturer and inquire as to their recommendation of using the old rubbers before I just ignored their directions. They must recommend it for a reason.

The alum bushing kits offered by Moroso, Comp Engrg, DSE, and others, have 6 bushings for replacement of rubber bushings.

The bushings fit between the body and the subframe. This is no bushing on the outside, as mentioned earlier, kind of counterproductive, just the flay washer and bolthead.

The alum radiator support bushings are not used, as mentioned, because of the shock/vibration to the radiator and its chance of breaking away from its side mounting, especially if a copper/brass radiator is bolted in OE style.

The above combo works well for me.

Just another perspective. I've got Global West solids in all six locations. Been in for 5 years and approx 10K miles. No rattles, stress cracks, etc.

It has been mentioned in other threads but probably bears repeating here. I put the GW solids in my 69, and they are an interlocking design, just like the rubber/poly units. The lower bushing half has a sleeve/cylinder that fits into the upper, and they fit really nice. The rubber replacements that were in the 69 when I bought it as a roller were badly cracked and deteriorated, even though they had never been out of the garage in 10 years.

The 68 has Energy polys, and they still wiggle a little. They have been in for 8 years or so, and more than 15,000 miles, and have not cracked or deformed. They are a pretty nice setup, but I like the GW solids better.