Now that the back end is back together, it's time to do the front.
Here's what it looked like. Not bad except for the "poor taste" rustoleum metalic blue paint and drum brakes.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-1.jpg
Brakes stripped off, steering arm and tie rod off, took 3-4 raps with a hammer to pop the ball joints.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-2.jpg
I did end up using a spring compressor, needed another inch to get the tension off the springs. I left the shocks in untill the tension was off just in case.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-3.jpg
And here she is all bare.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-4.jpg
Parts is parts
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-6.jpg
She'll go back together with Global West lower arm (thanks Mike!) SC&C adjustable uppers, I think I'll paint the spindles and steering arms a proper semi gloss black this time, lmao. Will re-use the springs, shocks, upper ball joint, and sway bar. The sway bar will get new upper brackets that will fit better and hopefully allow easier movement.

Plan here is to fix my camber situation with the adjustable upper arms, and get much free-er movement with the delrin control arm bushings.

Almost forgot to mention, there will be a set of Wilwood 12.2" 4 piston front brakes to match the rears!

If anyone can use the control arms, gimme a shout. They got good poly bushings in em. Lower joints are good, I'm taking the uppers off.

red x's

red x's
really? they all work fine for me. Anyone else not seeing the pics?
Well, guess it's time to rip apart the other side.

Opened for me. Good work, Jim. It will be interesting to see the lack of camber. Picture of camber before?

Picture of camber before?
Ask and you shall recieve. For those who missed my forst post on this topic, I initially (6 years ago, after rebuilding the front suspension and ding the g/s mod) had it aligned for 3 1/2 caster, 1 degree neg camber. Toe should have been minimal but I have my doubts. 3.5 caster was all he could get, with vitually no shims at all.

Here's a near head on pic, the tire tilting inward is pretty obvious
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/camber.jpg
Here's a closeup of the pass side tire from the same pic
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/camber2.jpg
and here's what a $200 Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 looks like after a few thousand miles with that much camber. Note the tread is gone on the right side of the tire. And that's the good one, the other is buried pretty deep, but it's down to cord! :(
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/camber3.jpg

For some reason I just don't seem to be into it today...
I did manage to get under there and clean up the front third of the underside of the car. Seems I have a couple of oil leaks to chase, lol... Also managed to get the spindles and steering arms cleaned and painted.

My new upper a-arms take 1/2" bolts, so I'll have to drill those out. Will manage to smear some por15 on those areaqs that need a hit. Looks like I need new boots for my upper ball joints and a few other small things.

Sure would like to put my brakes together, but it might be easier once the spindles are back on the car.

Think I'll light a fire and watch the race with my wife for awhile. This is one depressing day, 32 degrees, cloudy, and it ain't sure if it's raining or snowing! hmmm, looked out the window, it snowing snowflakes the size of golfballs!!!

So that tire wear is with 1* negative camber? You had to change all these parts to get less?

I may have gotten what I needed with offset upper shafts.
I "wanted" to change all that stuff!
The car was aligned 6 years ago when I rebuilt the front suspension the first time, and again 3 years ago when I changed springs, both times to the same specs. It's hard to remember how many "fewer shims" it took the second time... I don't find it hard to believe that my subframe is "sagging inwards" and my actual camber last summer may have been 2 degrees. Can anyone's calibrated eyeball tell from the pics?
Last summer was "high mileage" With the new 383 and tko, she's a joy to drive, and drive her I did, over 6000 miles worth.

One thing I know for sure. With those SC&C adjustable upper ams, it could fold in half and I'd still be able to control the camber.

I think you had more than 1* neg camber, Jim. I ran that alignment for years with no significant wear. I too have the SC&C uppers and can't wait to see how the car nehaves this year.

well. I been kinda stalled for the last few days. The lower arms were shipped yesterday, but won't be here til monday. I thought about building up the spindles, but decided that would be much better done with them on the car, some of those bolts need 100 lbs of torque, and I don't want to scratch the paint. I did manage to polish up the new master. I still haven't caved and ordered the rest of the SS lines... Nutting wrong with the ones that are on there, 'cept they ain't shiny.

I did layout the front brake parts on the bench, so here's some serious brake porn. Other than the iron disks, I can't believe how lite this wilwood stuff is, and those polished alluminum hubs are too gorgeous to hide. This is gonna be one FINE lookin front end.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-7.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-8.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-9.jpg

Jim that thing is gonna be a brand new car when you are done. You are much more agressive at that stuff than me. Wish I had that knowledge and guts to tear into it. :beers: on me

Now we're see Jim spending his time shinin' stuff all day Saturday just to get it dirty on Sunday. Looks good, JimM.

I can relate about Goodyear F1's. We had a 91 300ZX TT with them on all four corners and each front tire lasted 20K. And I can't fault the car, it was designed with 9* caster and 1.5* camber.

The engineers figured if the car is designed to do 160 mph, and it does according to other owners, the engrs & driver, want the car to track straight, hence, 9* caster. and it corners very well with 1.5* camber. So I at least wanted to correct the camber, to 0.25-0.50*, I bought a pair of Stllen adjustable upper C/arms. They are only adjustable in one direction, not triangulated. At max adjustment, it brought one wheel to 0.75* & the other to 0.65*. But I also lost 2* of caster, like I said uni-adjustable. This give the F1'a another 6K miles. Then I bought a cheaper tire from Tread Qtrs, 2/$180, and got 30K plus more, I sold the car.

So story is, turning is what kills a tire. More caster, more load on the inside tread. This is why OE specs had maybe 1*-1.5* caster, the tire was flat almost going through the turn. The wider the tire, the more friction, both rolling and turning. Everything is a trade-off. Life's too short, drive it like you stole it!

My '00 rustang GT daily driver destroys the outside edge of the front tires at the factory 3.5deg caster / -1deg camber. Need to get it up to about 6deg caster for my normal driving habits from what I've read.

Here's some Saturday morning suspension porn!
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-10.jpg
Spindles, SC&C adjustable uppers, & Wilwood rotors ready to go on.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-12.jpg
Scored these from a member who didn't need them, you don't want to know how little I paid THANKS!!!!
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-11.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-13.jpg
And a couple of pics of the drivers side together. Time to make lunch, finish the pinewood derby car, etc etc, hope to get some more garage time someday!

Jim,

I am where you were in the first pics. Only problem I ran into was I had to cut the lower control arm bolts out. Now...waiting for parts and doing a little clean up. Also need to clean all the tools I used. Quick question. The part that the outer tie rods connect to ( this part also bolts to the backing plate ) is this needed when upgrading to disk brakes? If so, I already have them soaking in Marine Clean and then to a coat of POR-15. Looks good.

That part is the steering arm, and yes they are needed.
They are not reproduced, and due to our car's "rear steer" design there's not a lot of doners. One of the few Camaro parts that is still solid gold!

Thanks Jim. All cleaned up and ready to be PORed. Also, when removing the steering box, can I leave the pitman arm connected to the center steering bar?

^ nevermind. I just bought a puller and will go from there.

I really really really hate working with coil springs. I haven't "LOST" one yet, but I'm waiting for "my turn."

Both sides now complete to the spindles. All digits and other appendages intact. Time to go to pinewood derby, then time for some brakes.

Did you get them in with just your floor jack?


Rich

I used an external compressor, from the third bottom coil to the 6th, had to shorten the thru bolts somwhat, it gave me an inch. The floor jack got the rest. Used the shock to safe the springs.

Did lousy at the derby... time to hang some brakes. Being a glutton for punishment, I guess I'll put the rotors on once without bearing grease and check the runout, that way when I find they wobble I won't have to clean the grease off!

drivers side rotor runout .002", pulled it packed the bearings, it's on for good now, time to hang a caliper. Wish I had a tv in the garage, race sounds crazy on the radio!

one side done.

If those Wilwoods stop as good as they look, I'm a happy man!

http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/front/front-14.jpg

Looks great Jim. Hopefully the other side goes as good as this one. I am at a standstill for now. Waiting for Year One to send my order. All items were in stock, but no e-mail stating shipment. Makes sense right. Ordered 4 days ago.

wow they look good. have u driven the car yet? if so, results?

I've driven the car for years, Matt, with mostly stock suspension and 4 drum brakes. These posts are real time, she's going together as we speak.

Can you believe I seem to have lost the second spindle nut?

Bought 2 new ones from the dealer last week, had them both at some point this afternoon, looked EVERYWHERE! Even cleaned up some, and had the wife look...:confused:

If I find it I'll get the other side done tonight, otherwise, I saw the bag of 4 the dealker got when they ordered them, so I know they have 2 more in stock.

Think it might be time to buy some brake fluid, YooHoo!!!!

Does that SS flex line look ok?

It's 14" long, it doesn't touch the frame at full lock, but looks like it could be quite a bit shorter and still fit.

Sorry I mean have u driven the car since u completed this.

Hey Jim - how about re-using one of your old spindle nuts? Oh yeah, I have them!!

PS Brakes look great!

ya tx, Al.... You have 4 spindle nuts, and I have only one...:confused:

Jim,

Don't forget all the old '68 to '74 "NOVA" cars out there that we can steal the bolt-on spindle arms off of.

The Chevy Nova, Olds Omega, Pontiac Ventura and finally the Buick Apollo..

pdq67

Lookin' good. Did you get a Hydraboost too? You're almost ready for a test drive!

Jim I have those same brakes on the bench for my car.My question is did the SS line go straight in the back of the caliper,or is there a 90 degree fitting back there?
Thank You

the fitting in the back of the caliper is 1/8" pipe thread. I used summits part number WIL-220-6956 to adapt to the braid, this is a straight fitting, they also have a 90

Nice looking set-up.

If you were to get a 90* elbow, do you think you could reroute the hose to go up to the uca, then loop down & come up to the hardline?

Original routing did this but the disc hardline on the frame did not make the down turn as drum hard line does. If you have enough hose, you might be able to tie it up along the uca. Just a thought.

Good Morning Jim, how did you change your idler arm and tie rods?
I got mine torn down late last night and all I can think about is how hard it's going to be getting the new arms close enough to get to an alignment shop.
Curious, did you set any caster adjustment?


Thanks for the tips.

PS. The Wilwood brakes look great!

Rich

Any progress this weekend?

I did get some 90 degree fitting to use on the front calipers, on my list to do today.

I didn't touch the tie rods and pitman this time, no need, all is 6 years old and in great shape.

I bought an "alignment guage" from SC&C, and will use that to align the car once she's back on her wheels. Once I master that device, my car will be 100% my own, the only jobs I'll ever farm out again will be engine machine work, where it's simply not practicle to own the tools to do a proper job!

Working hard today. Check my post on header port matching for progress.

Jim, on those calipers is the air supposed to rise to the bleeders on the top or do we have to remove the calipers and bleed each piston? It will be a while before I get there but thought I would ask.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.

The air will rise to the top. The instructions (you read them, right?) say to do the outside bleeder first, then the inside.

Thank you Jim. I guess I should thought to look at the instructions. I will try to do my homework before I ask for something again.
Thanks

lol, no problem with the asking, but it's always a good idea to read the instructions.

hoping to gravity bleed... had plenty of fluid coming out the fronts with the flexlines hanging, and a pretty good drip coming out with the 2 peice rear line split. coupled the 2 pieces a couple hours ago tho, and yet to get any fluid to the end of the hardline (flex to axle still off.) Fronts are all capped off, hoping to bleed the rears completely first.

Setting up the ebrakes, kit came with a "lokar Ford explorer ebrake kit" I didn't wanna run 2 long cables and try to find a place to hang the junction block so I cut em short and am hooking them up as stock.

back to the front suspension... inexplicably the front end went together an inch and a half higher than it went apart!

Fedex brought me a set of hotchkiss springs yesterday, and today I will attack ride hieght and stance until I am happy with it, then realign the front end. Thankfully, the free ht on the new springs is near 3" shorter than the old ones, they should be much easier to get in and out, might not even need a spring compressor!

Anyone wanna make book on how many times I'll pull those springs and cut a lil bit till I'm happy?

I sure hope this don't go like the guy with 1 long chiar leg, you know, the guy who ends up with a stool instead of a chair!

Anyone wanna make book on how many times I'll pull those springs and cut a lil bit till I'm happy?



Jim.. be sure to drop the front end off the jack ( let it down fast :) )a few times to let everything settle properly before you do any cutting of them springs. If not...you may be sorry :(


Kev

so... had both sides changed by lunchtime, one side was a half inch high, didn't have the spring in the pocket right, pulled it again, fixed. Took har for a quick spin around the block to let everything settle, then aligned to - 1/2 camber, + 4 3/4 caster, backed her out of the garage and back in, rechecked - good - locked the upper arms down.

Now all I needa do is set the toe and hook the sway bar back up.

Ride ht is perfect. 13 1/2 hub toi fender, 24 1/2 ground to fender.
I can tell it's normal, have to lift the bumper so I can kick the jack under the crossmember again!

ok, test drive complete. She's makin me happy. Front wheels pointing in the same direction now, no pull in the steering. The Hotchkiss springs are noticably stiffer than what came out, but they feel good. Tight and solid without being too harsh. Love those Borla mufflers. Nice quiet burble just idling or cruising, and a shreik to wake the dead when I put my foot in it. She running real nice too.

3 things left...

I gotta metalic scraping sound when I turn left more than just a tiny bit. This has been there from the first time she hit the road this spring. I've looked and looked and can't find it.

The right rear is still locking hard if I really nail the brakes. It try's to throw the car sideways. I can hold it straight, and there is absolutely no need to ever =hit the brakes that hard, she's stopping like she hit a wall with half that pressure, but worried that if I really hit them in a panic situation I could have control problems. I didn't do a lot of testing, once up and back fast, don't like to "test" too much in the dark.

This is the corner I replaced the caliper, and the first caliper did it too. Puzzling.

And.... my left turn signal's not cancelling.... whoopie.

Why so little caster?
Re check ride height and alignment in a couple of months.
David

ya, I'll probably check it again in 2 weeks, then every couple months after that. Kinda nice being able to do that in the garage!

four and three quarters degrees is not enough, David?

How much would you suggest?

Remember this is not a road race car, and I'm just as concerned with getting some mileage outa my next set of front tires as anytihng else.

I'm following in your foot steps Jim. Just got my alignment tool from SC&C!

I too am interested in a recommended caster setting. I need 1* neg camber to clear my fenders using GW front springs and was going to go with 4* caster for street driving.

Rick, I'd be concerned about the 1 degree of camber. Would buton head allen bolts in the fender lip help?

While I didn't do my previos alignment, and wasn't present when he "finished it up" I did tell him to give me 1 degree camber, and I wore out a set of very expensive tires in less than 10k miles...

David, please chime in, I'm hoping you misread my post about caster setting...

I was just wondering if Mark at SC&C had told you to use the 4.75 caster.

Global West recomends 5 deg positive caster, you can run a half deg more on the passenger side (5.5) to help the car track straight on crowned roads. 4.75 deg is pretty close, I'd leave it there for now but use the 5 next alignment.

For street use I'd run less neg camber, down to .25 deg or no more than .5 max. The more positive caster you use, the less neg camber needed. Turn your wheels full-lock and you'll see the tire sits flatter with more caster.

Thanks David. Next time I'll crank in a lil more.

I'll try .5* neg camber and 5* caster.

Those directions aren't the best. I just did a dry run on my driver's side. It seems for checking camber everything is locked down and for caster, after the intial 15* turn, you loosen the black 4-fingered knob and set to zero, then turn back the other 15* (with the locking pin loose) and read your caster. Does that sound right, Jim?

I love those adjustable arms!

Rick,
There are methods where you turn the wheel less than 15 degrees, only works when you use a straight "camber" bubble, not a specially calibrated camber bubble. I used to have that info bookmarked but that was before the hard drive crash... :(

Here are a couple of links, the second looks pretty good, gives a way to calculate camber using any turn angle you like:
http://circletrack.com/howto/138_0306_meas_caster_camber/
http://www.quadesl.com/miata_alignment.html GOOD ALIGNMENT PAGE
http://www.smartracing.net/installation.htm SMART LEVEL CHARTS handy charts in .pdf form to figure toe-in from degrees, etc

David