I bought a Unisteer Rack & pinion Kit for my 68 Vert. The Rack mounts behind the front crossmember using the 2 rear lower control arm bolts to bolt it to the car ,they supply 2 longer bolts for this .When I got ready to remove the old bolts, I wire brushed them and noticed they were grade 8.When I got the new hardware out, I also noticed the new longer bolts had 3 Marks and the letters JH on the head.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the rule of thumb for bolts is- Count the Marks and add 2 for the grade ie: 3 marks +2 = grade 5
6 Marks +2= Grade 8 which is how the OEM bolts were marked. I'm going to replace them with bolts I know are grade 8.I would suggest you all check yours and see if you have the same.I figured I better throw this out here ,because it's a saftey issue .Contacted Unisteer but they didn't get back to me
David

How's the angle of the U-joint(s) for you??

pdq67

The angle seems fine you just have to understand out of phase means just that I'm not going to use the Nylon insert nuts that came with the kit either
only metal stop nuts should be used in the engine compartment where heat could be a factor they gave me Nylon nuts for both the control arm bolts and the tie rod ends once the nylon melts you might as well not have a nut on it.
GM used metal stop nuts for a reason
David

Wise choices.
Be careful setting up your steering joints too.
David

This is an Update on the Unisteer issue.unisteer sent me a reply that they were looking into it???(Sounds like they aint looking to hard) So if any ones out there with a Rack & pinion By Unisteer CHECK YOUR CAR get rid of the grade 5 control arm bolts and the Nylon insert nuts for the Control arm bolts and the tierod ends!!!!!
the CA bolts should be metal stop nuts and the tierod ends should be castle nuts with cotter pins.The Neat thing about this is if the Control arm bolts don't break,the nylon will melt in the nuts. The rack could fall off and it won't matter if the bolts break.
Best David
68 Vert.350HO/TKO600

My last discussion with Unisteer was that they talked it over with the design Dept. and are not going to change from the Grade 5 bolts which are wrong or the nylon insert nuts Which sould not be used in the engine bay much less on a tie rod where they will move back and forth with out a Cotter key.So with that said I guess it's up to you the owner to know better.I just happen to have built 3 airplanes so I have a little better than average backround in bolt identification. Educate yourself enough to know whats wrong.YOUR FAMILY WILL RIDE IN WHAT YOU BUILT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With that said have a nice day David

David,
I appreciate your suggestions, but you are wrong. The grade 5 bolt is standard automotive grade. The grade 8 bolts you hade could have been changed by someone. Ive installed many of our kits and all the cars used grade 5. Id like to point out to you that we have a staff of real engineers here, we ISO and QS certified so decisions are always made with saftey being top priority. The answer that was given do you was, if you want to use grade 8 bolts then do so. Keep in mind that the control are bolts are in a rubber bushing. If anything would fail it would definately be the bushing first. In fact Ive seen many cross members(that are only 1/8" sheet metal) get wobbled out from worn bushings. Like I stated I appreciate your opinion.
Dave Batke
Unisteer Performance Products

both of my nova subframes had grade 8 bolts in the control arms. and they were definitely the stockers.
grade 5 might be "good enough", but the nyloc nuts on the tie rods? that just seems insane to me. every car i've ever seen has had a cotter pin in there to keep the tie rod nuts from backing off.
has the Unisteer stuff been DOT approved, and if not, i wonder what they would say about this?

honestly, how much more would it cost to upgrade to grade 8 bolts and cotter pins with castle nuts? a couple of bucks per kit?

It took me 4 hours to drive out the old bolts aint no way they had been replaced The new bolts ARE grade 8 on the lower front and I replaced the ones unisteer sent with grade 8 All I can tell you Mr.Batke is order a set from Rick's or Classic I bet they'll be grade 8 as for the Nyloc nuts.Accepted building practices are that you never use nylon insert nuts in an invironment where heat can be a factor rendering the insert useless. As for the tie rod ends why would you use a nylon insert nut on a bolt you know your going to take loose alot in the first few weeks of installation common pratice is you only use that nut once?Here's a little part of a book on Aircraft construction practices by the Late Tony Bingelis considered a Guru and builder of numerous aircraft

The self locking nut is most used by builders.It has a fiber/ nylon insert which limits its use to areas in the aircraft structure where temperatures do not exeed 250 degrees F.....otherwise the fiber locking insert may become brittle and deteriorate
An unused self-locking nut(nylon insert type) will have no threads cut into its insert,since that insert is elastic ,when the nut is torqued the fiber insert is forced tightly into the bolt threads and clamps the nut in place.
You can see that if the nut is used more that once this locking action may become progressively weaker as the elastic insert becomes treaded so I wouldn't reuse any self-locking nut (This would apply to the Contrl arm bolt and the tie rod)
Mr. batke I will agree that this is common building practice for Aircraft.I would also say that most on this net. would say don't take a chance with something as critical as the steering in the car
I can post Pictures of the Bolts I removed from the car ,as well as the OEM replacements and the ones you sent with the kit if you'd like?
As for the nuts? The OEM's were all metal? and don't you wonder why no OEM used a metal stop nut on a tie rod? Probably because they didn't want to burn it off with a torch after a few years. They used a Castle nut and a cotter pin Oh and as for your real engineers iso must stand for "In Search Of the coffee machine If you think for the first second that the engine bay on a car can't exeed 250 degrees in the summer then hope the "Engineers" will make better Lawyers Read up my friend.
Sorry Mr.Batke but your the one who's Wrong
David Cecil

My '69 Bird had grade 8 bolts in the lower bushings as well as the knurled bolts (studs?) holding the upper cross shafts. I'm sure they were never changed.

If the engineers aren't aware of what the cars come with I have to wonder.

Good Luck!

OK just finished the install in the car if I had it to do over would have gone with another Rack Like Flaming River.I used new "Stover" nuts on the rear control arm bolts and Found out the tie rod ball stud shaft wouldn't go up in the steering arm enough to get into the nylon part of the nut Yea I cleaned the powder coat out of them ....so ditched those and went looking for something better.Closest I could come to ,wouldn't you know it was a 1995 Camaro. Taper is'nt right so went to the belt sander and using a Caliper got it down pretty close.Now I have a tie rod end with a Castle nut and cotter pin not to mention a grease fitting.Thank God Advance Auto see's fit to put the Spec's of TRW's tie rod ends on their website.All in all I think Unisteer's Rack kit is Very poorly engineered .The Rack should be Tilted back farther to align the shaft better. their lack of knowledge of established accepted industry building practice is nothing less than deplorable Concerning hardware included with the kit Oh don't forget if you go the route I did, Buff the Taper shaft after you sand it, could cause cracking if you don't
David

David,
Everything you stated sounds good except the part about changing the tie rod end taper with a belt sander. That sounds scary to me.
You could have used "jet" nuts, or even low crown nylocs on the tie rod ends they supplied.

My 2004 SUV has no castle nuts on the tie rod ends or balljoints, they use the crimp nuts, all steel.
I remember my factory lower control arm bolts being grade 8, I'll check that out. a G8 bolt is aprox 20% stronger if I remember right. A grade 0 or 1 bolt is HALF as strong as a G5! I try to never buy grade 0 bolts, too dangerous to have around, they might find their way onto a car by accident.
David

David P.
I changed the Taper to fit the Steering arm Taper using a tie rod from a vehicle of comprable size and weight. We are only talking about 40 thousandth of an inch difference between the two. I would assume since the TRW tie rod was a little larger it is stronger and I checked my work with a digital caliper to make sure it was uniform. I could have done it on a lathe but Can't get it apart .If I could have found a sloted hex nut in 12MMx 1.75 course thread I would have used the ones from unisteer. So far I'm still looking ,find em in fine tread all day long .The threaded part of the unisteer tie rod didn't go up into the steering arm far enough to get into the nylon part of the nyloc nut so I would have had to go with a low profile nut.

Took the car out today for a trial run. First time I've had it out since I put in Tubular control arms,Rack&pinion,hotchkis sway bar,new 12 bolt rear and ,4 wheel disc brakes.It did fine, got it back up on the lift and checked the torque on everything(Tierods included)everything was where it was supposed to be. Was surprised I didn't have any issues with the U joints on the steering
David ,I'm confident that the Mod. to the tie rod will be fine. I used the sander because it doesent take material off like a grinder and can be easily polished when done
David Cecil
P.S If you do run across any 12mm slotted head nut in 1.75 course thread let me know!!!!!!!!!!LOL

David,
You could probably make a castle nut out of a regular or nylock nut if you have a milling machine. Another thought is to just put the nylock on and drill through the nut and stud together then put the cotter pin in. Almost any nut would stay put if you put some red Loctite on the threads.
David

David,
I thought about drilling the nut and bolt together,might go that route at some point or mill myself a castle nut.I guess I could have asked unisteer what the tierod was designed to fit but at this point I'm pretty pissed off at them, as I'm sure they are at me.I wonder if anyone else had the same problem with the "Stickout" of the threads?
David since you know alot about the suspension in the camaro I just thought of a question?You said the Grade 8 bolt is about 20% stronger than a grade 5
but you must also remember that this bolt is resting on a little better than a 1/4" of steel at the front and back of each control arm bushing wouldn't you rather have the grade 8? considering that you have at rest about 750 Lbs. riding on those two 1/2" bolts
Anyway guys with the Internet I see no excuse for not educating yourselfs enough to know whats right and whats wrong. Most bolt manufacture's have information about identifying bolt grades on their website and like David Pozzi said No marks on the top of the bolts I wouldn't have em around
Thanks for the feed back David just send me a Bill-LOL
David Cecil

OK Guys,
Got some new info on the tie rod issue.Seems that GM used a standerd Taper for tie rod ends.That taper was 1 1/2" per foot,so with that I ordered a taper reamer to ream the steering arms.The arms will now take a standerd 95 Camaro tie rod end. Which will allow me to use Moog tie rod ends. The ends are much larger than the unisteer ends and have a grease fitting.The reamer comes from Ukut an American Co. if you need the part # i can get it for you
Have a Good One
David

David,
I thought about drilling the nut and bolt together,might go that route at some point or mill myself a castle nut.I guess I could have asked unisteer what the tierod was designed to fit but at this point I'm pretty pissed off at them, as I'm sure they are at me.I wonder if anyone else had the same problem with the "Stickout" of the threads?
David since you know alot about the suspension in the camaro I just thought of a question?You said the Grade 8 bolt is about 20% stronger than a grade 5
but you must also remember that this bolt is resting on a little better than a 1/4" of steel at the front and back of each control arm bushing wouldn't you rather have the grade 8? considering that you have at rest about 750 Lbs. riding on those two 1/2" bolts
Anyway guys with the Internet I see no excuse for not educating yourselfs enough to know whats right and whats wrong. Most bolt manufacture's have information about identifying bolt grades on their website and like David Pozzi said No marks on the top of the bolts I wouldn't have em around
Thanks for the feed back David just send me a Bill-LOL
David Cecil


David,
I'd allways opt for the grade 8 bolts for suspension use.
Thanks for the Reamer info, how hard was it to ream the holes?

David P.
The reamer has'ent got here yet.I just ordered it but the folks at Ukut said it can be done with a Milling machine ,a Drill Press or, by hand using a Tap wrench.We're not talking about but just a few thousands of an inch so I might try it by hand rather than take the whole front end apart again.
I even got to drive the thing today set my toe in with one of those "Do it yourself guages" set the toe at 3/32, drives OK ,will be better after the front end shop sets the castor and camber. Speed tech called for 0 Camber,5 degrees pos castor
Had a car show here yesterday (Rural Virginia We still get excited about that)
Guy bought a 68 Z/28 new... sold it in 71... found it on the internet bought it back was digging through some old papers and found the protecto the build sheet and bill of sale from the dealer and the #'s match, still has the original 302! some guys have all the luck
David if you want the info on Ukut let me know The 1 1/2" reamer is about $60 Shipped and is made of M2 Steel or the better one is $72 and is coated the web site for Xkut sorry refered to it as Ukut is:
WWW.Xkut-reamers.com
David

Thanks, I have both a 7 and 10 deg reamer I bought from Speedway Motors, but I haven't used them yet. They are fairly short and I'm not sure the small ends are small enough for stock sized tie rods.
David

DavidC...
I have to respectfully disagree with your branding Unisteer racks as being "unsafe" due to its suggested bolt strength, and I base that on the unit Flaming River received back from me @ 2:32 pm today for a full refund, because it IS clearly unsafe! Look at the pics below (if I am supposed to post photos in a different manner, will somebody please educate me) from my test fitting the Flaming River rack on my 67, and think about the environment it has been placed in, and the threat of instant severe damage from contact. Unisteers grade 5 bolts will never be in the same environment, or in any threat of damage from contact. Hell, look around... we all have cars that are in the weeds cause they look cool, and the only good point of Flaming Rivers setup is that it would probably save the bottom of a lot of headers, because it is lower and ahead of them. Check the pics and think about it... my intent is not to say you are wrong about being concerned with bolt strength or fastener type, but to open your eyes to something far far worse in design and safety that is thousands of times more likely to "cause an accident" just because you didn't see a dip in the road, a manhole cover sticking up, or something laying in the road.

For what it's worth, I ordered a Unisteer unit to replace the pos Flaming River, and even though I too will use grade 8 bolts and the safer fasteners like you... And you are also correct about adding 2 points to the marking on the bolts to determine the grade of the bolt... *grin*


http://www.prostreetcamaro.com/rack%20001.jpg

This shows a side view of how far the "cradle" that bolts to the old steering box mount and idler arm mount and actually holds the rack, hangs below the crossmember (about 2") and would be the first thing to get torn off sporting a big block with a size 13 shoe...

http://www.prostreetcamaro.com/rack%20002.jpg

This one shows about 20" of the cradle hanging below the crossmember from the front, you could use to remove any high spots of your choice, manholes, etc...

http://www.prostreetcamaro.com/rack%20003.jpg

And here, we have 1 1/2" of the cradle that is supposed to fit flush and flat to the frame on both sides (2 sides each = 3") of stress you are going to put on the support for the rack after twisting it past its preformed mounting bends... ya think there would be an issue with fatigue on the bends or distorting it past the intended mounting position for the rack?


OK... now that we removed the steering from our pride & joy on a speed bump, how are we going to point it away from anything else that may bend up our baby because the steering rack is 500 yards behind us?

I realize, erring on the side of safety is very wise, and the right thing to do 100% of the time but remember, Engineers don't usually do bolts and nuts and base their learning's on technical "data" instead of field testing this stuff like we do, and enables us to know what works and what doesn't based on facts.

~Here are a few things about bolt grades, strength, and kind of interesting. There a lot of facts related to bolt strength, but you are right, grade 8 if you can, grade 5 is industry standard due to the difference in cost for several million bolts to manufacturers being more important than our safety~

Most people think a bolt is a bolt is a bolt. They see it as a machined chunk of metal that holds or attaches things. Fasteners (aka bolts or screws) are complex mechanically-engineered hardware. They are made using different materials, different thread types (i.e. coarse, fine, extra fine), various lengths, with grip or no grip (shank), different types (i.e. hex, 12 pt, carriage, etc.), different coatings (i.e. passivated, cadmium, dry film lube, etc.), various classes of fit (i.e. class 3), and multiple grades (i.e. grade 5, 8, etc.).
Bolts come with left or right hand threads, metric or SAE threads, different number of threads per inch (i.e. 20 or 28 for the same size fastener) and various versions of those (i.e. UNF versus UNJF). In addition, there are way too many military specs in existence to list them all here. So with all these differences, it’s no wonder most people don’t understand the difference between fasteners very well. Of all these differences, I’ll focus on the different grades since that is what most people ask about.
First, you need to be able to identify bolts by the different grades when you go to the local hardware store. Grade 5 bolts have 3 marks or lines on the head that are in the shape of a “Y”. Grade 8 bolts have 6 marks on the head.
Second, the different grades have a meaning to them. It tells you how strong the fastener is. There are different types of strengths listed for each grade. Proof strength (about 90% of yield), ultimate tensile strength (bolt fails in stretch), yield strength (bolt begins to get a permanent set and changes cross-sectional area typically) and shear strength (bolt prevents parts from separating by using it’s shank or body as a stop).

Depending on how you are using the fastener, you would look at the appropriate and corresponding strength type. For example, bolts that attach a D-ring bracket to the bumper face of a vehicle would be critical in tension . So you would want to know what the tensile strength a particular bolt is. Bolts that attach winch-mounting plates are typically seeing mostly shear loads thus preventing the winch from departing from the vehicle during winching operations. In that case, shear strength is important to you.
Mark’s Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers lists Grade 5 fasteners as 120 ksi fasteners. This means the tensile strength is 120,000 lbs per square inch. It also lists Grade 8’s as 150 ksi fasteners meaning the tensile strength is 150,000 lbs per square inch. Also, the ultimate shear strength of a fastener is typically about 60% of its ultimate tension strength. So given a certain diameter (cross-sectional area) and strength rating, someone can figure out how much load that fastener can carry in both tension and shear.

I’ve also heard the argument that grade 8’s are more brittle than grade 5’s and that’s why you shouldn’t use them. Well, first you need to understand what the term “brittle” really means. Brittleness in bolts is defined as failure at stresses apparently below the strength of the bolt material with little or no evidence of plastic deformation. Typically, fasteners are not brittle below 180 ksi ultimate tensile strength. Grade 5’s have an ultimate tensile strength of 120 ksi and a grade 8 fastener has an ultimate tensile strength of 150 ksi. This is why brittle is a relative term. Nearly all fasteners are considered ductile except some made from PH 15-6 Mo, 17-4 PH and 17-7 PH.

Grade 8 bolt capability in yield (stretch) = 130,000 lbs / in2 x .03349 in2 = 4354 lbs minimum

Grade 8 bolt capability in tension (failure) = 150,000 lbs / in2 x .03349 in2 = 5024 lbs minimum

Grade 5 bolt capability in yield (stretch) = 92,000 lbs / in2 x .03349 in2 = 3081 lbs minimum

Grade 5 bolt capability in tension (failure) = 120,000 lbs / in2 x .03349 in2 = 4019 lbs minimum

Again, you can see that the grade 8 will support over 1000 lbs more or a 1/2-ton more. But there’s something more important to note. The grade 5 fastener has already reached its ultimate load and FAILED BEFORE the grade 8 starts to yield or stretch. Therefore, the argument that you should not use grade 8’s because they are more brittle than grade 5’s is not a true statement in most applications.
Toughness is an important feature of a fastener. It is the opposite of brittleness and gives you an idea of how it will handle abuse without being damaged and eventually weakening the fastener or can cause fatigue to appear much earlier than normal. One way to “measure” toughness is by looking at the hardness rating of a fastener. The higher the number (Brinell, Rockwell …) the harder the material is and the tougher it is to damage. According to Marks’ Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, Grade 5’s typically have a core Rockwell hardness of C25-C34 whereas a grade 8 typically has a core Rockwell hardness of C33-C39. Based on this, grade 8’s are tougher than grade 5’s.
Fatigue usually doesn’t play a big part in grade 8 or grade 5 fasteners since most steels are good for 2 million to 10 million cycles. Far more than you will ever winch or pull on. Here is a quick point about fastener fatigue. Almost all fastener fatigue failures are the result of improper (almost always too low) torque. Too low a torque will cause the fastener to pick up more load more often and eventually cycle it to failure. Therefore, you want to make sure you torque your fasteners to the appropriate level using a torque wrench and make sure to torque dry, clean threads. Lubricated threads significantly change the actual preload on the fastener and you risk over torquing it.

So, you're saying David C is wrong because the Flaming River unit is worse?

Everything he said is correct, grade 8 suspension bolts should not be replaced with grade 5. Double shear is the failure mode we're concerned about WRT suspension action. Grade 5 is probably good enough but I don't want to do the testing. Adding the loads of holding the steering rack in place can't help.

Good Luck!

Not at all, he is totally right... read this s l o w l y
my intent is not to say you are wrong about being concerned with bolt strength or fastener type, but to open your eyes to something far far worse in design and safety

I too will use grade 8 bolts and the safer fasteners like you...

I realize, erring on the side of safety is very wise, and the right thing to do 100% of the time but remember, Engineers don't usually do bolts and nuts and base their learning's on technical "data" instead of field testing this stuff like we do, and enables us to know what works and what doesn't based on facts.

Which means David is right, and the engineers who design this stuff are not due to the grade of bolts they incude, and the types of fasteners they use. How do you come up with me saying David is wrong... I must have missed that. I agreed with everything but him switching to a FR unit. And if you don't hit curbs there isn't much of a load on anything

Then why did you open with "I have to respectfully disagree with your branding Unisteer racks as being "unsafe" due to its suggested bolt strength..."? That usually means something like "I think you're wrong."

I think unusual situations are where things are most likely to come apart and where it will hurt most. Maybe hitting a curb is the lesser of two evils, I don't want my suspension or steering to fail if I have to take that option.

Good Luck!

OK Larry &Tug Lets just say what I said in a earlier post IT IS UP TO THE BUILDER/OWNER TO EDUCATE HIM OR HERSELF ENOUGH TO KNOW WHATS RIGHT AND WHATS WRONG!!!!!!!! Did I say that loud enough? I said befor 130,000 Psi sounds like alot now look how thick the steel is in the cross member how much is riding on those bolts? Don't rely on aftermarket manufacture's to know what's right. Larry found that out with Flaming River,I found out too ,with Unisteer.There comes a point when dealing with any car ,homebuilt aircraft or any machine that could take your life(Or that of your family assuming at some point they'll be riding in the car YOU BUILT!) that some level of perfectionism or should I say experience should come into play
Some guy realize this and get a mechanic to work on their cars
My first car was a 64 impala $(500) I made $2.65 Hr. I made enough to buy the parts but not enough to have them put in the car ,you learn quick.
When I built my first Airplane I read the plans and new I needed to learn more befor I Started building even though I considered myself a pretty dern good mechanic.The concerns over the Fasteners Used by Unisteer just mean
A: I know enough to know the bolts were wrong and the Nylon stop nuts don't follow
Say this with me now " Common established industry practice"
B:I had a way to impart that Knowledge,via the computer to those that might not be aware or know enough to know that what they had been given to the by an aftermarket manufacture was wrong
Nothing more nothing less as for the Rack Larry I think we both Did not get the Quality we payed for .If I did it again the old steering would still be in the car
Y'all have a Good one & be nice!!!!!!!!!!!!
David

I really like rack and pinion steering.
But when I see a rack hanging down in harms way, or see high angles on the steering column shaft, or bumpsteer issues, it just doesn't make sense to take that kind of risk for the small gain. A third gen box or other aftermarket box will get you almost the feel of a rack and none of the safety issues.
David

I really like rack and pinion steering.
But when I see a rack hanging down in harms way, or see high angles on the steering column shaft, it just doesn't make sense to take that kind of risk for the small gain. A third gen box or other aftermarket box will get you almost the feel of a rack and none of the safety issues.
David


THANK YOU!!!! This is what I still don't understand with car guys. The rack and pinion feel can be had with todays steering gear boxes for 1/2 the price. I guess looking cool is better than having a functional steering system.

Tyler

Tyler, I've avoided making negative statements about the rack kits because I don't have hands-on experience with them, but what I've seen of them does not look good. I've heard with big block Camaros, step one for pulling or installing the engine, is to remove the rack! Often header clearance is no better, the clearance problems are moved to another location.

I hear rave reviews from some members about how the car drives with a rack but there are many complaints and problems posted too. At this point I have to agree with you that a good PS box with fast ratio and high effort is the best option. It's a factory engineered steering system,- just upgraded inside the box.
If I were really wanting a rack, I'd get an aftermarket subframe designed for one.
David

Well guys Live and learn I guess?Thats what this site is ALLLL about may be someone will save some time and money by looking at these posts a little farther down the road .David P. I did get the Reamer today and it's a Gem!
it does have a 7/16 small end and is made out of M2 steel not carbon
I will say that with the Unisteer rack my only problem was with the hardware in the kit not the design or location of the Rack itself.
Now this is on a SBC but header clearance was good and IF you take your time and measure you Can get the Ujoints aligned
If they would have tilted the rack back you'd only need 1 Ujoint
This again being a SBC
I think this thread has been more about aftermarket suppliers than the original post about hardware.
We take it for granted that a product written up in a magazine like Hot Rod or Super Chevy means that it's OK Clearly thats not always the case.
We'll see how this rack holds up Don't worry I still have the old power steering
(I was born in the dark ,but it was'ent last night!)
Thanks again Guys David
68 Rag TKO600

DavidC...
yes this has been an eye opening thread, and I like you hope it helps those reading it make better choices, or at least to be able to make whatever they install safe. I'm glad you bailed on the FR rack... that sucker is scary. So, how does the Unisteer fit? I have a big block so oil pan issues were a problem with the FR, even though I got the one they make for a BB. Now I don't know what I am going to do.. for my intent, a rack is just much cleaner although I hear bad things about header fitment because of the jointed shaft & hardware. Keep me posted if ya get to drive it soon... didja go with P/S or manual? Since mine is blown, I was opting for a manual unit to lose the extra belt and make more room for the blower belt. Anyway, thanks to all who posted, this may have saved both of us, and hopefully others as well...
Keep it WFO and be careful.... Larry

Hey guys - this is quite an interesting thread.
I installed the unisteer manual rack in my 69 BB Camaro about a month ago.
In my case, the install was pretty straightforward.
I did however, have to fab up a new frame mount for the 3/4" heim that holds the steering shaft (due to interference with#1 header tube). New mount places the heim slightly forward.
Also, I used grade 8 bolts to mount the rack, and welded a 5/16 and 3/8 nut to the rag joint adapter for ease of putting on/taking off.
On this car, header clearance is greatly increased, and the road feel compared to my factory p/s is much, much better.
I didn't really freak out about the frame mount, because the header design is a variable Unisteer doesn't control. Making a new bracket was easier for me than header surgery would have been.
While the car was apart, I put a sway bar on, and it's more enjoyable now to drive than I ever remember.

Wish you fellas best of luck with your projects..................DC

Larry
To answer your question,yes I have driven the car since I installed the Rack.It's a power rack and it drives great, even though I have'nt had it to the front end shop yet.This winter I did so much to the car ,I feel like the steering was just a small part.
I installed new body bushings which was scary because I found 39 year old 5/8 bolts that had rusted down to about 3/8".I installed tubular uppers and lowers(Speed Tech) and Hotchkis sway bar.Put the Orig.12 bolt back under the car(new Eton Posi /w Richmond Gears.New front Spindles 4 new rotors ,4wheel disc conversion so as you can see the drive train is new (Last Fall I installed a TKO600)
Don I have a SBC so header clearance was'nt an issue but I can see given the mounting location of the Unisteer rack that an after market oil pan like a Moroso might not fit .I also saw in the installation instructions that for BBC's a certain type of header or stock manifolds were called for
David Pozzi brought up a good point about bump steer. I worked it pretty good on the 4th& 5th trial runs and so far so good,by that time I figured the springs had settled in and didn't get anything in a hard curve.This is with the Toe at about 1/8New calls for 3/32 And the Castor and Camber at the old Camaro specs.New calls for 0 camber and Castor at 5+ Driver side and 5 1/2+ for the Pass. side (Oh I forgot the Hotchkis frame connectors and the Hotchkis Belly pan(it's a Conv.)the pan allowed me to put in a 2 1/2" Magnaflow Stainless steel Dual exhaust(Yea Wife knows were I've been the last 20 weekends!!)I'm using the Tierod ends that unisteer sent with the kit They must have come from a Dodge Omni cause they're very small.I've ordered a set of Moog ends for a 95 Camaro and will reem the steering arms to fit(Bored a whole through the little ones for a cotter) but looks like crap.

Don I didn't weld the nuts I tossed the ones they sent in the bin and used mine with all metal stop nuts. Once again a bad design, those nuts are about 3" from the header wonder how long the nylon would last ?
Hope everybody got the answers they wanted
Best David
68 Rag TKO600

I did however, have to fab up a new frame mount for the 3/4" heim that holds the steering shaft (due to interference with#1 header tube).

Hey Don.

Got any Pics of the new frame bracket that you fabricated?

What kind of setup are you running? bbc, sbc, headers?

I'm thinking that if I move the heim joint along the steering column axis towards the steering wheel that it might reduce the binding. Do you know aproximately which direction you moved the heim joint?

Thanks in advance for the replies!

Jamie - The bracket I made moves the heim rearward about 1.5", and upward about 1"(as compared to unisteer's bracket when installed like a "U").

Mine uses the middle and rear frame holes, not front and rear.

I used .500" steel plate threaded for the heim, and 15/32" x 1.5" long slotted holes for the two 7/16" frame bolts.

The slots allowed me to wiggle it around, find the best spot, and tighten the bolts with nuts on the engine side of the bracket.

Once everything was test fitted, and no rubbing anywhere, the nuts were welded to the frame bracket while on the car.

The frame bolts go thru the frame, thru the bracket, and into the nuts.

My 69 uses a standard deck height BB w/factory oval heads, and Hooker 2" comps.

The slotted holes in the new bracket really helped in finding the sweet spot for the heim, and kept me from banging up the headers.

I'll try to get some dimensions and pics of the bracket.

Hope this helps.................................DC

Jamie - until I can post pics, try this template:

Lay a 4" wide by 5" tall piece of paper or tin over the rear and middle frame holes (centered).

Middle frame hole should be about 1" above bottom of template.

Mark the holes. Draw a 1.5" vertical slot over both holes.(holes centered in slots)

The 3/4-16 tapped hole for the heim goes in the center of the top of template, 2" above the rear frame hole.

With these dimensions, the heim goes into my 1/2" plate flush.

Lower shaft clears header by about 1/8"

U-joint on my rack just clears itself when turning.

Welding nuts to rag joint adapter helped me a bunch.

Good Luck...................................DC

Don

Thanks for the replies. I was actually able to get rid of the binding by playing with the phasing of the joints.

That was all well and good with my 396 in the car. Then, after I installed my 502, the stock 502 pan wouldn't clear the rack.

So, after all that, I don't have a rack on there right now. There is no space for the rack to fit between the oil pan and the S/F.

But, I guess when (if) my 396 goes back in, or, I decide that the rack is worth pulling the 502 to change the oil pan, the rack will go back on the car.

Otherwise, it's just a nice conversation piece in the shop :sad:

Ok folks I guess this will be the last post in this thread
I've had the rack on the car since last summer.It drives great .I can't complain about that.The U jounts are a pain in the ass measure 10 times cut once!!!!! reemed the steering arms that came with the rack to accept 95 Camaro tie rod ends,replaceing the Dodge Omni ones that came in the kit.
My personal opinion:leave the steering alone or at least go with a 3rd Gen box like David Pozzi said .I wouldn't consider the rack knowing what I do now
Unisteer could have and should have done a better job engineering this kit.I wouldn't buy another one nor do I recomend anyone putting it in their car
David:noway:

David,
The hardest thing to quantify is the difference in feel between a good 3rd gen box and a Rack and Pinion. If you get a chance to compare by driving a first gen equipped with a 3rd gen box, please post your comments to this thread.
Thanks, David

I agree with TeeToe Jones. Steering box technology has come so far nowadays that it almost sounds like a waist of the extra money for a rack. Lee will make you a box to whatever specs you want and the new 800 series box is lighter that a rack after you add on the weight of all the brackets used to mount the rack. I have a 3rd gen box on my 67 and LOVE IT. True, it does have some weight to it, but a 800 series Lee box and pump are in my future. I am not worried with THE LOOK. I want my car to perform. I drive my car EVERYDAY and in ANY WEATHER so it has to work when I need it to. Anyone looking to upgrade their steering should seriously give Lee a call or Mark at Savitske. Together the two of you can build a box, and pump if wanted, that will give you everybit of feedback and feel that a rack ever could for less money. Granted the Lee boxes are more than a 3rd gen box, but getting a good rebuilt 3rd gen box can be a dart shoot sometimes and we all know they are not the easiest things to sling around and manuver into position, but for someone on a budget, they make a great upgrade. Lee will also make the box with any type of fittings you want. My hydroboost has one fittings for the pressure side, which is metric o-ring and then the return is flare. I am going to have Lee make them the same way so I won't have to change my hose ends. Just my $.02.

Here is a video showing a Unisteer rack: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143509

I don't want to stir the pot, but here goes.
this is an excerpt from Carrol Smiths book Nuts,Bolts,Fasteners, and Plumbing hand book.
"Metal Fatigue- why parts break
Most of the metal parts that break do not fail from being overloaded. They fail from metal fatigue . This included hardware.

Quote # 2
God did not intend that bolts be used as axles or trunnions, only when a bolt itself is well supported in double sheer and when the bearing is not going to rotate on the bolt ( ie lower control arm busing sleeves)

a grade 5 1/2 bolt ( used in the lower control arm mount) has a tensile strength of 120,000 PSI minimum! not to say that this is the actual force that is being applied in the case being debated above but it does give you an insite to the actual strength.
i can not find an actual rating of a 1/2 grade 5 bolt mounted in double sheer, but i bet it is much higher than the 1/8 sheet metal the bolt is mounted in.
i guess waht i am saying is that it wouldn't hurt to use grade 8 obviously altho grade 8 can also be more brittle than grade 5!! if we were talking about off shore grade 8

as for the nyloc nut they are good to 250 deg F i doubt that an outer tie rod end would ever see that extreme.


We have a solution for the steering shaft, we have designed and Stainless works is building headers for us that fit SB and LS motors and you only need a 2 joint shaft. the big blockis a different story sorry

I agree on a steering box but again there is a lot of info about this bolt issue. While the grade does matter it only matters when sizing the bolt for the application. Sorry but you can use a grade 5 bolt if it is big enough and it fits the load requirement. I would be more concerned about what the bolt is designed for. IE shear or tension -two different animals and impact resistance which is a factor of hardness or brittleness. For instance if the bolt only needs to take say a ton of load you size it for that and don't forget the factor of safety built in. In aerospace where weight is a huge penality the FOS is only 1.5 it is usually at least 2 or higher in the auto industry. This means that even if the bolt is designed to take a ton then usually you size it for 3k for the FOS. In other words everything is overdesigned to a degree but basic engineering states that you size a bolt based on the load with factor of safety built in. You then select the best bolt for the job then you size it from there. The grade comes in the best bolt for the job criteria before the sizing takes place.

i agree. if you (GM, Unisteer)calculated what all the forces were and found that you needed a grade 5 7/16 bolt but decided to use a grade 2 3/4 bolt which could have 3 times the strength then there is no issue. other than weight.

I just checked the A arm bolts on my 67 Camaro that I have owned since it was new. The bolts are grade 8.
David

:angry:Well
I thought that was the last thread But...
David Pozzi's 67's Bolts are grade 8 ,my old ones I took out of the car that had been in there since 1968 are grade 8,another guy said his were grade 8 in one of the posts.Don't know bout you guys but I think I'm seeing a pattern here?
So why waste everybody's time hashing out the shear strengh of a friggin grade 5 bolt? They werent used by the OEM so why the crap would you put them in your car.Hell I'm not a Structural engineer don't claim to be But I do know that you have 1/8" of metal on both sides of that bushing so I'm not taking any chances with something as simple as a Stinkin bolt.
Hell you can put a aluminum bolt in there if you want to its your car and while they're prying your ass out of the car I'll waive on the way by.
Jesus guys use a little brains
D. Cecil