http://123kt.net/images/1212382491car.jpg

http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/35.pdf
http://www.detroitspeed.com/productpages/subframe.htm

Alright, Guys here is my car and these r two of the frames i am looking at to up grade my front suspension.

My car needs a new powersteering gearbox, new brakes and bushings and pretty much all of the front suspension. i want as little down time on my car as possible but i also want a reliable frame

So guys would U Buy a new aftermarket frame or would u buy a donor frame and transfer new parts to it

My plans for my car r as follow I am pulling the 383 and going back with a LS1 or ZZ4 block depending on funds after suspension and paint I want a good cornering and streetability so as to keep up with higher end cars
Thanks for the input

Also any rear suspension options would be appreciated as i have not started researching them yet

Dusty

How much you want to spend? Both of those are very nice & lots of $$$$$. And that includes wheels, tires & brakes. It's all a package and you'll find your weak spot fast. I could see complete deals breaking $15k without trying real hard.

Better question: What is the intended use: All street. Road Racing? AutoX? That matters. If it is all street, I think a lot of stuff out there is overkill.

Goals & $$$. That will help you back into the right answers.

Well scott I have the money for the frame and from what i have seen it would cost about the same to restore my stock frame with new products my intentions r to start buy getting the frame and engine first then brakes and wheels next year seeing as though i will wait till i have everything to start dissassembling my Car and i can buy cheaper brake set ups than the name brand but the suspension is pretty much uniform

hey man look at the link I have pics of the frame that I bought.

Hey matt what kinda frame is that what did u give for it and were u happy with it

I'm putting mine together right now and I went with basically everything new except the sub frame.
Using DSE UCA,LCA pitman, idlers, tie rods, Quick Ratio steering box, Baer master cyl, booster, Baer Track 4 wheel disc, Hotchkis TVS and QA1 front coil overs, Billet Intro wheels and tires for just about $7,000.
Whew that's a lot to say :D
Not too bad considering everything I got.
If time is a factor then you might just do something similar. Unless you have alot of free time after work and feel like working on your car then maybe the sub frame is the way to go.

I will have mine back together by next week. Should be sweet.

Good luck.

Rich

If you're not in a huge hurry for a subframe, keep your eyes on this one - I understand the basic subframe will be CONSIDERABLY less money than those you linked.

http://www.speedtech-performance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=129/category_id=214/home_id=214/mode=prod/prd129.htm

IMO, the aftermarket subs are nice, but bang for buck they're not worth it.
Don't forget about 21st century street machines if you decide to go with a new sub.
http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com/products.php?item=subframes
Before we can talk about what is right for your car, what are your goals for the car? Weekend cruiser? Daily Driver? Auto-X, Drag Race? If it's street only, that $ spent on an aftermarket subframe will not be realized in performance.

Rear leaf springs can be designed to work very well. If you retain the leafs, match them to your front springs. There are many other options to consider, like the Lateral Dynamics 3 link.
http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/products/

from what i have seen it would cost about the same to restore my stock frame with new products

Absolutely not! The stock subframe can be rebuilt with the Guldstrand mod (free), stock UCA/LCA with Delrin/Delalum bushings (aproximately $390, including billet offset UCA shafts), rebuilt steering linkage and new ball joints (Moog parts - maybe $150), replacement coil springs (Hotchkis/Global West - $175), good shocks (say $300), a 3rd Gen IROC steering box (maybe $275 including the Lee Manufacturing rag joint and adapters) and a good sway bar (say $220) for a total of $1550. A car set up like this, with subframe connectors, decent leaf springs and shocks on the rear end, modern wheels and tires and a performance alignment handles extremely well.

If you buy an aftermarket subframe, you're paying $4,000 to $5,000 for a marginal improvement in perfromance and a lot of bling. If you've got the money to spend God bless you, go for it; if not, spend it where it'll really do you some good.

But unless you're trying to convince a wife/girlfriend :yes:, don't try to sell the "it costs the same either way" line here.

Don't forget to throw AirRide Technologies, http://www.airride.com/index.asp, in the mix.

Hey matt what kinda frame is that what did u give for it and were u happy with it


The frame is from a place in ohio called checkeredracing.com

I got everything for 2k. Subframe, mustang 2 rack and pinion, disc brakes, cross drilled and slotted rotors, 2" drop spindles, cross member, motor mounts

havent installed it yet bc its gotta welded in to the sub connectors

There's something that needs to be cleared up here.

Aftermarket subframes offer many, many advantages that stock subframes can't offer. Being the engineer here at Art Morrison, I'm running the First Gen Camaro clip on my car, my old subframe was blinged out with all the latest performance pieces: ATS, DSE, BAER, etc.

Our new subframe has a geometry that can't be obtained with the stock clip. It's like driving a whole different car. It's pretty much like driving a new Z06.

Don't get me wrong, you can do alot with the stock subframe. But if you want to go a little farther, there are products out there that can help you out. However, be very careful about which one you choose. Out of all the aftermarket subframes out there (and I mean all), there are only two I would purchase (ours included). The rest have serious strength or geometry issues (assuming for a handling type application).

Matt Jones,

Could u post a pic or a link of the subframe that ur running?

http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/35.pdf

Installed photos:
http://images116.fotki.com/v701/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4380-vi.jpg
http://images14.fotki.com/v371/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4391-vi.jpg
http://images116.fotki.com/v709/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4434-vi.jpg

Last photo shows a 265/35R18 tire on a 9.5" rim. 275's fit too. These photos are actually the mock-up subframe, the production pieces of extra reinforcements in key areas...and an all around cleaner appearance.

I like that. I only probablem my kit has it that the hole for the rad support is not drilled.

Hey Matt-

I was wondering if you could post up a graph showing static alignment settings, camber gain, bumpsteer, and caster? I like to compare hard numbers between suspensions, and I already know what both the DSE $7K frame and the DSE stage 3 kit can do, so I'd like to see what the C5 frame can do as far as camber gain per inch of suspension travel, and total bumpsteer numbers.

Tyler

Out of all the aftermarket subframes out there (and I mean all), there are only two I would purchase (ours included). The rest have serious strength or geometry issues (assuming for a handling type application).

So which of DSE or 21st Century Street Machine are you leaving off your list? :D

So which of DSE or 21st Century Street Machine are you leaving off your list? :D

21st Century is going out of business.

Tyler-
I don't have access to the web account to post pictures (Craig does), so here's what I can tell you:
Static caster/camber/toe: 5.9*/-0.5*/ 0
Caster @ 2" bump/rebound: 6.9* / 4.9*
Camber @ 2" bump/rebound: -2* / .05*
Toe @ 2" bump/rebound: .015" (in) / .003" (in)

IMO, comparing toe figures is a wash. It doesn't really matter what the toe is doing in a simple bump & rebound situation, but it really important when body roll is introduced. It gives a more accurate description on how the car will feel when turning around corners. Ours is set up in a road course manner, where high speed cornering with only a fair amount of steering input is used...compared to an autocross where speeds are slower but with sharper turns. Is the average driver going to notice the difference? Not at all.

Keep in mind, for those of you who are not familiar, that the geometry designed into each suspension is an interpretation on what that engineer/designer feels is best. I have a wealth of personal experience on road courses (as does Kyle and Stacy), and I can tell that we differ a bit on what suspension behavior we like. And that's OK, and like I said before, 99% of people wont be able to tell the difference.

Nice numbers. I think you and I think alike in terms of what is "best" for a design.

You guys aren't too far ahead of what we are doing numbers wise. We typically get about .9 degrees of neg camber gain per inch of suspension travel.

Tyler

You guys aren't too far ahead of what we are doing numbers wise. We typically get about .9 degrees of neg camber gain per inch of suspension travel.

Tyler

...which is pretty darn good. 0.1 certainly isn't anything to worry about. Just curious, what's your SVSA?

http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/35.pdf

Installed photos:
http://images116.fotki.com/v701/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4380-vi.jpg
http://images14.fotki.com/v371/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4391-vi.jpg
http://images116.fotki.com/v709/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4434-vi.jpg

Last photo shows a 265/35R18 tire on a 9.5" rim. 275's fit too. These photos are actually the mock-up subframe, the production pieces of extra reinforcements in key areas...and an all around cleaner appearance.


That looks great Silver just one question will the artmorrission frame work with all Brake kits and what header kits will work with it

Dusty, I sent you a PM but I'll repeat some of that info here for everbody to see:

Our subframe uses C5 knuckles, so any 1997-2005 brake kit will work. That includes Wilwood, Brembo, AP, etc.

We offer a very nice set of custom headers made specifically for this subframe, in either bare or coated.

Dusty, I sent you a PM but I'll repeat some of that info here for everbody to see:

Our subframe uses C5 knuckles, so any 1997-2005 brake kit will work. That includes Wilwood, Brembo, AP, etc.

We offer a very nice set of custom headers made specifically for this subframe, in either bare or coated.

Matt, are headers for the LSx type motors?

Matt, are headers for the LSx type motors?

Yep. I'm running them right now on my car. Fit great, looks awesome.

and one more question i forgot if i get this frame will i have to run the reverse backspace if i buy the c5 brakes

I think everyone makes good points here. It really depends what one is looking for. I recently purchased a Martz front subframe with rack & pinion styeering, dropped spindles, and coil over shocks. I installed Comp Eng weld in subframe connectors, moved the rear leaf springs in-board 4" and mini tubbed the rear wheel wells. I am running 335 x 35 x 17 on the back. Also added 4 wheel disk brakes to my '69 vert. One of the main reasons I bought it was the weight savings on the front end because I was putting in a stroker big block. The subframe shaved almost 200 lbs off the front end. With aluminum heads, I was still a bit lighter than I was with the original subframe and a small block. I am more of a straight line racer than road racer, but handling was an issue as well. Decide what your goals are and proceed accordingly.

Our new subframe has a geometry that can't be obtained with the stock clip. It's like driving a whole different car. It's pretty much like driving a new Z06.


Yeah...I put a new kitchen in my house last year. It`s like living in a whole new house. It`s pretty much like living in the Palace at Versailles. :thumbsup:

As in any endeavor you eventually reach and pass the point of diminishing returns. The new Morrison sub looks great and you guys are one of the few places out there I`d expect to do it right.
The questions each consumer has to ask themselves though is... is the juice worth the squeezing? If you can get a Large,cold drink for $1 is it worth another $3 to get an X Large? The first few gulps are always the most satisfying (getting rid of the godawful stock geometry in favor of much better performance geometry). Sometimes by the end of a Super Big Gulp you`re thinking,yeah it`s good but I would have been happy with a Large and I could have used that extra $3 to buy a cheeseburger to go with it... :yes:

Heh,it must be near dinner time..... Mark SC&C

Yeah...I put a new kitchen in my house last year. It`s like living in a whole new house. It`s pretty much like living in the Palace at Versailles. :thumbsup:


So you've been able to do back-to-back comparisons, too?;)

At any rate, to give you an example of what this front suspension is capable of, Art's Corvette just got back from testing. In short, it broke every record of any previous test by Primedia...and the skidpad averaged about 1.1g...on street tires. This suspension has huge performance capabilities, and if the rest of the car is built right, you'd be amazed of what it can do.

Yeah,but to honest I find the Palace to be a little too...french. :D

Just making the point that a subframe does not a ZO6 make. There are,you have a to admit a few other differences,like the ultra rigid hydraformed aluminum frame,independent rear suspension,carbon fiber body,rear transaxle etc. ;)

I`m not suprised at all that Arts car did really well. It`s well engineered and well built (pretty too!) so it had better! My point is just that for example a `02 Z-28 SS will pull .98 G and we can get nearly every aspect of the geometry of a 1st gen better than that with the stock subframe and the correct bolt ons. That far beyond the wildest dreams of most 1st Gen owners.
So folks have to ask themselves honestly is .10-.15 G worth the extra money and effort to them when they`ll probably never see a skid pad much less test their car on one. Some will feel it is and have the money to prove it,others won`t or don`t. But hey this is American and there`s plenty of room in the marketplace for all of us. :yes: Mark SC&C

Mark, I agree. But I also disagree to some extent.

I've been lucky enough to drive an '05 Z06 a while back. I can honestly say that my car feels very similiar. Did I just remove a stock subframe and bolt on this one? Of course not...the rear suspension was modified to match the front, and a roll bar was added. At this level of the game, that's a given.

Now, I've never seen a late-model F-Body pull that kind of number on the skidpad in stock form...even a new Z06 can slightly top that number. But are skidpad numbers important? In my opinion, hardly so. But it sure does measure the car's grip in a nonrealistic cornering situation, as you know. Being a steady state scenario, it really doesn't say much except for how fat the tires are and whether or not the camber is adequate. The slalom is a completely different story, and honestly, is where the hard work really pays off...and if you didn't do your homework, it is embarrisingly obvious. Our in-house IFS set the record when it was first tested, and our C5 IFS topped that by a huge margin and set another record.

But you made the best point: is it worth the extra money? Lots of people agree, lots disagree. No matter which route they go..Morrison, DSE, OEM, they'll be a happy camper.

Matt what kinda cost r involved on the rear suspension up grade

Yeah,but to honest I find the Palace to be a little too...french. :D

Just making the point that a subframe does not a ZO6 make. There are,you have a to admit a few other differences,like the ultra rigid hydraformed aluminum frame,independent rear suspension,carbon fiber body,rear transaxle etc. ;)

I`m not suprised at all that Arts car did really well. It`s well engineered and well built (pretty too!) so it had better! My point is just that for example a `02 Z-28 SS will pull .98 G and we can get nearly every aspect of the geometry of a 1st gen better than that with the stock subframe and the correct bolt ons. That far beyond the wildest dreams of most 1st Gen owners.
So folks have to ask themselves honestly is .10-.15 G worth the extra money and effort to them when they`ll probably never see a skid pad much less test their car on one. Some will feel it is and have the money to prove it,others won`t or don`t. But hey this is American and there`s plenty of room in the marketplace for all of us. :yes: Mark SC&C


what would u suggest if some one was gonna build a stock frame with the right bolt ons to aquire good cornering

Dusty,
I'd look at Detroit Speed and ATS for the bolt-on parts if you want to use your stock subframe.

For the rear, a set of composite leafs and adjustable shocks can do wonders.

Matt,the ZO6 is a great car isn`t it? I`ve driven an `04 and `07 (WOW, what a machine!). I`ve also had a C5 with Bridgestone Pole Positions and some mods for about 5 years. LongHauled Power Tour in `05 with that one and have done some auto cross with it. I`ve put about 40,000 miles on it so far so I know a little bit about how they drive.
Go to any fair sized SCCA event and you can find a dozen(s) of 4th gens and even 3rd gens with all stock geometry that`ll pull 1G or better on good street tires.

Dusty,there are a lot of great ways to go these days. It depends a lot on your goals,budget and how you intend to use the car. It`s pretty easy (these days) to make a 1st gen perform like an `87 IROC but with better ride and road manners. You just have to match your parts and select them carefully. Watch out for parts that look cool but don`t really do much,if anything. I like to start off with a good set of subframe connectors and at least new rubber subframe bushings. Poly or aluminum are even better. Next step correcting the lousy factory suspension and steering geometry. There`s a LOT of different ways to do that from the G mod through our StreetComp Stage 1 through 2-Plus,AFX tall spindles and whole subframes from Alston,DSE,Morrison etc. The point of diminishing returns is somewhere in the middle,from there on you`ll pay more $$$ for each % of gain. That`s not necessarily bad,it`s just the nature of things. Some folks will feel the very last 1% of improvement is worth whatever it costs and to others that would be a waste of money because they`re never going hammer their cars to the last 1% (or even 10%) anyway.
Now you have to flesh out the package with proper performance spring and shocks,then tune to taste with swaybars. For many people a set of Hotchkis springs and Bilstein shocks will be great. Others may want a more serious setup with GW CAT5 springs and a set of adj. Varishocks or maybe they`ll want to go to a link rear suspension and coil overs all around. Maybe you show the car and a set of polished stainless steel arms and a polished rack are a lot more important than another .1G to you. There are just tons of choices out there right now and some of them are good. That`s why we like to talk to every client and help them select the right components for them rather than doing a faceless online shopping cart. Mark SC&C

I am looking at spending about 8500 total disc brakes and all i want to go coil over and tubular in front i have been lookin heavily at martz chasis and art morrision as well but i am at a loss as i am trying to aquire some good cornering and new suspension and brakes but my car will probaly never be pushed past the point of just fun driving and cruisin around town but it is pretty high performance and want something that will that will perform with it

If the choice is between Martz and Morrison there`s no question at all,go Morrison. The difference in build quality and overall design is huge. There are a lot of other good options like DSE and Chassisworks has done a lot of tweaking on their G-Street Camaro subframe lately to make it an even better performer.
For $8500 you can put together one hell of a street brake/suspension package. You can put most of that into the front/subframe or you can spread it around the whole car. You might even end up with some money left over to put toward wheels/tires,motor etc. I`d be more than happy to go over some of the different options with you and help you sort them out if you like. Give me a call at the shop anytime. Mark SC&C

what would u suggest if some one was gonna build a stock frame with the right bolt ons to aquire good cornering

I did not want to pull or change my subframe either so just did this... I used Speed Tech upper and lower arms. Hotchkis TVS system with front and rear sway bars , springs and leafs. Global west sub frame/rad support bushings. I already had Koni's so I kept those . Night and day difference and completely trasformed the car. Downside... if your sub frame is not really ,really nice looking...you will see how it is not really really nice after bolting the new parts on :) I wouuld go to Pozzi's web site for info http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension.htm

I had the exact same issues with my project. It's in stages of body work and mock-up and my basic intention was to make the ZO6 wheels fit w/o the use of adapters. I'll try to cover all the bases, so this might end up to be a lengthy reply. This is what I had to do on my Camaro.

I'll get a little off-subject and start w/the rear axle. The ZO6 rear wheel is a 10.5X18 w/a 285-35 tire. Basically the stock axle was too narrow by a total of 6". I went through my pile of axles and found one to be the perfect length. It came from a 1977 Chevy 4X4 Blazer, having a posi with 3.73 gears. All I had to do was remove the axle shafts, machine down the wheel flanges (truck wheels have a bigger register), redrill the bolt pattern and install a set of Moroso 1/2" wheel studs. Presto, the wheels/tires fit inside the rear fenders perfectly and no mini tubbing. That was the easy part. Easier said than done, at least.

I had a battle with the front though. I needed to widen the front track by 4 to 4 1/2" to fit the front Vette wheels. These are 9.5X18 with 265/35 tires. I also wanted rack/pinion steering and eventually needed an outstanding braking system. I searched different sites, asked all the usual questions and got the same answers. All of which none were helpful.
I searched for extended length control arms to widen the track, but couldn't locate what I needed. As good as some custom subframes are, that was not an option. Not only as a cost stand point but I had doubts about fitment issues too. In all my experiences with bolt-on parts, they are usually far from being an actual bolt on. I had a C4 Vette clip at one time and had plans to use it on a previous project but ended up selling the unit, so I've had dealings w/those parts in the past. I've seen the kits that use Vette components, but there agin is the cost issue. I almost gave up and just opted for using wheel adapters when I started looking at what the new cars are using.

Just by chance, one of the local police cars came in with a busted rack and pinion. I had the car up on the lift and decided to take some frame and track measurements. Surprisingly the dimensions were pretty close to what I needed, things were looking more positive now.
The later Crown Vic's have an aluminum main section, aluminum (beefy) lower control arms (steel uppers), aluminum spindles, rack/pinion steering, dual piston calipers (12" rotors) and coil over-type shocks. It all comes out as one single bolt-in assembly. Just what I was looking for, it's mostly aluminum and would be a modern upgrade. I located one in a local salvage yard that was in a Ford taxi. It was clean and the steering unit was leak free (just some spilled engine oil). Not bad for $300.

The next step was making it fit. I spent $100 on a stick of 3"X3" square tubing and a set of steel casters. I built a rolling jig to mount the car to and started the disassembly. I removed the sub frame/suspension/wheels all in one big rolling piece and laid the Ford unit in its place.
The next step was to remove the wheel hubs, redrill the pattern to fit the Vette wheels and install the heavier studs. I made a small spacer plate for the lower shock mounts, to position the lower CAs up in a ride-height position. Mounted the wheels, centered the tires between the fenders and took closer measurements. I got the unit squared up, leveled out, and ride-heighted to the body. The next issue was (is) making new frame rails.

The stock sub frame is roughly 3 1/2" square (some places narrower, some places wider) tubing. I didn't want any strength issues, so I figured stronger is better than weaker. I purchased a stick of 4X4 thin-walled square tubing, started cutting sections, and fitting pieces. The first parts to make were the rear sections of the frame rails. They were bolted to the rear body mounts, jacked up level and squared to the edges of the body. It's amazing how well those crappy little screw jacks work.

The next pieces were the front frame rails. After several trial fitments, I finaly had the proper length. Drilled precise holes for the 2 locating dowels, squared/leveled the front rails to the rear rails and marked the places for the 4 main lower mounting bolts. Next? Connect rails A and B with brackets C,D,E, and F. I made templates from card board to make the proper attatching brackets, which were sections of scrap 4" tubing. The plates were tack welded in place, a front body mount was also mocked in and then the frame rail was removed (and checked for warpage) and fully welded.

Left side completed, now for the right one. The only issue now is that the track is too wide by 1". I found a style of wheel that I like better and has a deeper back spacing, so the ZO6 wheels will eventually come off.
I'm fortunate that I have the equipment and the ability to solve my own issues. It usually involves a lot of time but my actual expense is minimal. $300 for the suspension clip and $50 in tubing is surely cheaper than spending several grand on a custom unit + the expense of Corvette suspension pieces (Wayne Due???). I just couldn't see the point in butchering the stock frame and having something that looked, well, hacked up. When it's all done it'll be a full-off custom anyway, I just happen to build it myself.

The body work is coming along. I'm getting all the body gaps perfected and solving many small issues. Eventually it'll be Porsche guards red with some kind of white high-lighting. Whether stripes, one big stripe or hockey sticks, I'm not sure yet. It'll have a Muncie 4 speed and my present engine choice is a turbo'd BMW V12 (unless I change my mind). First things first, take it one issue at a time. The next task will be building a nice braking system.

I have some pictures in my files, so i'll post what I have. I'll post some links of frame pics as soon as my friend's server is back on line.

I hope some of this info will be helpful.

Hey guys,

I just pulled the June issue of Hot Rod Magazine out of the mailbox. There is a good article about all the modern subframes for the 67-69 Camaro. There are pictures, web addresses and other information for about a dozen different manufacturers including all those mentioned in this post. Some of these frames look like nice pieces and are made by manufacturers I've never even heard of before!!!

Might be worth the $5.00 to check this out before dropping a small fortune on a new frame????

This is what I have.
This is the best pic of the car w/the extended axle and the Vette wheels. Sorry, it was at night. + the shot of the Ford suspension. My friends site is still down so I can't send any links yet.

I had the exact same issues with my project. It's in stages of body work and mock-up and my basic intention was to make the ZO6 wheels fit w/o the use of adapters. I'll try to cover all the bases, so this might end up to be a lengthy reply. This is what I had to do on my Camaro.

I'll get a little off-subject and start w/the rear axle. The ZO6 rear wheel is a 10.5X18 w/a 285-35 tire. Basically the stock axle was too narrow by a total of 6". I went through my pile of axles and found one to be the perfect length. It came from a 1977 Chevy 4X4 Blazer, having a posi with 3.73 gears. All I had to do was remove the axle shafts, machine down the wheel flanges (truck wheels have a bigger register), redrill the bolt pattern and install a set of Moroso 1/2" wheel studs. Presto, the wheels/tires fit inside the rear fenders perfectly and no mini tubbing. That was the easy part. Easier said than done, at least.

I had a battle with the front though. I needed to widen the front track by 4 to 4 1/2" to fit the front Vette wheels. These are 9.5X18 with 265/35 tires. I also wanted rack/pinion steering and eventually needed an outstanding braking system. I searched different sites, asked all the usual questions and got the same answers. All of which none were helpful.
I searched for extended length control arms to widen the track, but couldn't locate what I needed. As good as some custom subframes are, that was not an option. Not only as a cost stand point but I had doubts about fitment issues too. In all my experiences with bolt-on parts, they are usually far from being an actual bolt on. I had a C4 Vette clip at one time and had plans to use it on a previous project but ended up selling the unit, so I've had dealings w/those parts in the past. I've seen the kits that use Vette components, but there agin is the cost issue. I almost gave up and just opted for using wheel adapters when I started looking at what the new cars are using.

Just by chance, one of the local police cars came in with a busted rack and pinion. I had the car up on the lift and decided to take some frame and track measurements. Surprisingly the dimensions were pretty close to what I needed, things were looking more positive now.
The later Crown Vic's have an aluminum main section, aluminum (beefy) lower control arms (steel uppers), aluminum spindles, rack/pinion steering, dual piston calipers (12" rotors) and coil over-type shocks. It all comes out as one single bolt-in assembly. Just what I was looking for, it's mostly aluminum and would be a modern upgrade. I located one in a local salvage yard that was in a Ford taxi. It was clean and the steering unit was leak free (just some spilled engine oil). Not bad for $300.

The next step was making it fit. I spent $100 on a stick of 3"X3" square tubing and a set of steel casters. I built a rolling jig to mount the car to and started the disassembly. I removed the sub frame/suspension/wheels all in one big rolling piece and laid the Ford unit in its place.
The next step was to remove the wheel hubs, redrill the pattern to fit the Vette wheels and install the heavier studs. I made a small spacer plate for the lower shock mounts, to position the lower CAs up in a ride-height position. Mounted the wheels, centered the tires between the fenders and took closer measurements. I got the unit squared up, leveled out, and ride-heighted to the body. The next issue was (is) making new frame rails.

The stock sub frame is roughly 3 1/2" square (some places narrower, some places wider) tubing. I didn't want any strength issues, so I figured stronger is better than weaker. I purchased a stick of 4X4 thin-walled square tubing, started cutting sections, and fitting pieces. The first parts to make were the rear sections of the frame rails. They were bolted to the rear body mounts, jacked up level and squared to the edges of the body. It's amazing how well those crappy little screw jacks work.

The next pieces were the front frame rails. After several trial fitments, I finaly had the proper length. Drilled precise holes for the 2 locating dowels, squared/leveled the front rails to the rear rails and marked the places for the 4 main lower mounting bolts. Next? Connect rails A and B with brackets C,D,E, and F. I made templates from card board to make the proper attatching brackets, which were sections of scrap 4" tubing. The plates were tack welded in place, a front body mount was also mocked in and then the frame rail was removed (and checked for warpage) and fully welded.

Left side completed, now for the right one. The only issue now is that the track is too wide by 1". I found a style of wheel that I like better and has a deeper back spacing, so the ZO6 wheels will eventually come off.
I'm fortunate that I have the equipment and the ability to solve my own issues. It usually involves a lot of time but my actual expense is minimal. $300 for the suspension clip and $50 in tubing is surely cheaper than spending several grand on a custom unit + the expense of Corvette suspension pieces (Wayne Due???). I just couldn't see the point in butchering the stock frame and having something that looked, well, hacked up. When it's all done it'll be a full-off custom anyway, I just happen to build it myself.

The body work is coming along. I'm getting all the body gaps perfected and solving many small issues. Eventually it'll be Porsche guards red with some kind of white high-lighting. Whether stripes, one big stripe or hockey sticks, I'm not sure yet. It'll have a Muncie 4 speed and my present engine choice is a turbo'd BMW V12 (unless I change my mind). First things first, take it one issue at a time. The next task will be building a nice braking system.

I have some pictures in my files, so i'll post what I have. I'll post some links of frame pics as soon as my friend's server is back on line.

I hope some of this info will be helpful.
Lots of good information thanks i would love to see some pics of the process thanks
dusty

Alex's site is back up. Here's a listing of different pics. Some of the suspension, some of the car. Crappy pics though. I guess better than no pics.
As soon as I get my new PC, then I can post my own pics from the new camera.
http://www.bartonekdragracing.com/webfilez/gene68/
http://themagicm.homelinux.org/phpgallery/index.php?/category/97
http://themagicm.homelinux.org/phpgallery/index.php?/category/62