'94 Camaro 3.4L Cranks but No Start [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: '94 Camaro 3.4L Cranks but No Start


justbrad
Mar 20th, 07, 03:49 PM
Hello, I bought my Camaro new in 1994 and have had very good luck with it until this past Sunday. My son backed it out of the driveway and when he put it in drive, it quit running and I haven't been able to start it since. The first thing I did was to check the oil and it smelled strongly of gasoline. The engine turns over, and sounds like it wants to start but won't.

I have replaced the following items with new parts: Spark plugs, SP cables, Ign. coils (all 3), O2 sensors (the 2 on the exh. manifolds), air filter, fuel filter, and fuel pump. I have also changed the oil and the oil filter.

I'm kind of stuck now on how to proceed, (my limited imagination is at an end at the moment) whats the next step, shy of towing it to a real mechanic. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Brad

kustomwerker
Mar 20th, 07, 04:55 PM
before replacing the motor(just kidding) do some diagnostics...pull a plug wire...put an old plug in it, rest it on the intake or other metal surface, and have someone crank the motor...see if there is spark or not...report back, and we can go from there...

justbrad
Mar 21st, 07, 09:19 AM
Kustomwerker,

I tried one plug and it sparked. However, my battery has decided that it is getting old and tired of trying to start the engine. I've got it hooked up to a charger now and will try the rest of the plugs later this afternoon. I think this battery is about 4 years old so I'll probably put a new one in this afternoon also, depending upon how well it holds a charge.

Thank you
Brad

justbrad
Mar 21st, 07, 03:32 PM
Ok, back to it. The spark plugs have spark. My battery seems to be holding its charge for the time being. When the engine is turning over, it sounds and smells like its flooded. Could this be caused by the fuel pressure regulator malfunctioning? Delivering to much fuel to the injectors.

Thanks

Everett#2390
Mar 21st, 07, 07:43 PM
If it smells like raw gas while cranking, then hold the throttle to the floor while cranking. The engine is being flooded. You may have to remove the spark plugs and either dry them out with a shot of compressed air, or replace them with new plugs.

Too much fuel could be pressure regulator being broken, but unlikely because there is no vacuum created, engine has not started, to start the regulation cycle. It needs vacuum to regulate, no vacuum means regulator is supplying full fuel pressure, as shown by wet (?) spark plugs.

The engine may be overfueling due to a defective ECM coolant temp sensor. This sensor tells the ECM how cold the engine is and the ECM looks up in a table, along with other sensor inputs, and determines how much fuel for injectors to inject. This function is like the choke system of a carburetor, low air flow (closed choke plate) with X-amount of fuel = rich fuel mixture. ECM cold start sytem works in the opposite way, same amount of air flow with X+Y amount of fuel = rich fuel mixture.

When you were checking for spark at the plug, you should hold just the wire with a screwdriver inserted into the boot and hold the screwdriver a 1/4 inch away from ground and look for the color of the spark. Blue is best. If orange in color, not enough voltage to ignition to create a blue spark or a poor ground at the DIS coilpak(s). Maybe others here can come up with a better spark troubleshooting technique as this suggestion may damage the coil, as the older ignition systems, one could check this way.

Once you do get the engine running and for some time, you may want to change the oil again to remove the fuel if the smell curls your nose hair. I'm sure you are reading your newly purchased Haynes manual and reading up for other suggestions.

justbrad
Mar 22nd, 07, 08:10 AM
Thank you Everett,

The spark plugs were wet.

I'll switch out the temp sensor this afternoon.

I also ordered a FPR diaphragm kit that should be in this afternoon.

I'm heading out now to pull all the plugs and let cylinders and plugs dry out for a couple hours. I'll change the oil & filter again right after it fires up and runs for a few seconds (or minutes).

I bought the Haynes manual back in '95-'96 when I first saw it at AutoZone it's been a real life saver. I think I've read it from cover to cover about 3 times. And now a fourth time during this problem. Unluckily it only devotes about 1 paragraph to the FPR for a 3.4L.

edit: I read on this forum somewhere about the same problems and it turned out to be the FPR was the culprit.

Thanks for your input, it is really appreciated.
Brad

justbrad
Mar 23rd, 07, 03:36 PM
Just an update. still not starting.

Checked the temp. sensor and it came close to the resistance that Haynes noted so I didn't replace it (Can't check it with a hot engine though).

I tried checking for trouble codes using the jumper method on the ALDL between the Diagnostic TEST terminal and ground. The SES light lite-up but never flashed.

Question 1: Does this have to do with disconnecting the neg. battery terminal and erasing the ECM memory or is it a sign of a defective ECM?

The FPR diaphram kit install went smoothly however no different results.

With the cash I've thrown at this car so far this week it should be running better than it has in years.

Question 2: The spark appeared to be orange/yellow not blue. I bought AC Delco spark plugs and they are gapped at the recommended 0.045". Since I'm probably gonna have to remove the plugs this evening again and let the cylinders dry out would it be a good idea to replace these plugs and with what kind due you folks recommend.

edit: Question 3: Forgot this one, would a clogged Catalytic Converter or the timing chain be a culprit to not starting. (Car has 145k miles.)
Thanks Again
Brad

Everett#2390
Mar 23rd, 07, 07:36 PM
I tried checking for trouble codes using the jumper method on the ALDL between the Diagnostic TEST terminal and ground. The SES light lite-up but never flashed.SES light should at least flashed a code 12, regardless of codes its holding or not.

Question 1: Does this have to do with disconnecting the neg. battery terminal and erasing the ECM memory or is it a sign of a defective ECM?Disconnecting battery cable erases fault code memory, and whatever the ECM has learned from past history to make the engine run smoothly, as in old age, and reset itself to manufacturer's program. Kind of like defragging the disc or CD.

Question 2: The spark appeared to be orange/yellow not blue. I bought AC Delco spark plugs and they are gapped at the recommended 0.045". Since I'm probably gonna have to remove the plugs this evening again and let the cylinders dry out would it be a good idea to replace these plugs and with what kind due you folks recommend.Good idea to let everything dry out and try again. You've replaced the plugs already, no reason to replace again. Haynes should give the best spark plug number for the engine. Depending upon oil consumption after driving for some time, I'd probably go with the next hotter heat range to help keep the electrodes clean. Looking at the OE plugs and seeing a nice tan electrodes would indicate the proper heat range.

edit: Question 3: Forgot this one, would a clogged Catalytic Converter or the timing chain be a culprit to not starting. (Car has 145k miles.)
Thanks Again, BradA jumped timing chain will prevent starting. Compression gauge might read 100 PSIG if chain has jumped.

justbrad
Mar 23rd, 07, 08:35 PM
Thanks again Everett,

I thought the SES light should have flashed.

I talked to a friend earlier this evening and his first thought was the timing chain. So, tomorrow morning he's heading over and we're gonna pull the front of the engine off and replace it, I've been dreading this, and have refused to talk about it. I watched my dad replace timing chains a few times but have never attempted it myself. SWMBO reminded me at dinner that we used to own a Ford Escort that threw timing belts every 50k miles and had the same symptoms as the Camaro does now (must be that "old age" thing, I just can't remember).

So anyways that is the next step (I think).

I can't wait to get my Camaro out of the garage so I can get back to my favorite hobby, brewing beer. My kegerator is starting to run a little low.

Thanks
Brad

Everett#2390
Mar 24th, 07, 06:34 AM
Keep us informed of the outcome.

kustomwerker
Mar 24th, 07, 08:16 AM
hey everett, is this a mass air or speed density... bad maf or map can cause a rich condition...wet pluge arent usually due to a timing chain, but possible...when a chain jumps, the car will usually turn over faster than normal, due to loss of compression...i`ve also seen cars that wont run after they`ve been jumpstarted, because the voltage spike changes values in the computer learn area of the prom...disconnect the batt for 1 minute to reset values to predetermined table...a plugged cat would have to be plugged pretty solid to make the car not run, but would make the plugs wet, because exhaust gasses wont get out of the engine...you can drop the y pipe to see if the cat is the culprit, but dont run too long if it starts...you could bend valves from running just at manifolds...

Everett#2390
Mar 24th, 07, 11:02 AM
I believe it to be a speed density system, but either set-up, MAF & MAP are not in the start function, there is no vacuum created for either to work to start reporting any values.

A manual check of at least one cylinder compression will show the condition of timing chain if it has jumped, low compression, no vacuum.

Or so I think.

kustomwerker
Mar 25th, 07, 10:11 AM
i`d like to hear what it turns out top be, as these problems help techs diagnose difficult problems in the future...i only mentioned the map/maf because i had a caravan once that would run for one hour straight, and then just quit...it wouldnt start back up until it cooled for 20 minutes...there was a bad wire in the map harness...when the engine bay temp rose, resistance in the sensor wire went up, changing the map value, and leaning the car out...it wouldnt start affter that, until wire resistance came back down, and the comp got a good reading...i unplugged the map, and the car started right up with a mil light on to tell me that i forgot to plug the sensor back in...(i found the problem purely by chance!!!)i didnt know if the comp in the camaro would do the same thing...and everett is right...check compression before ripping into the engine...it`ll cost more time, but alot less money usually...

justbrad
Mar 25th, 07, 06:44 PM
Hi Guys (kustomwerker & Everett),

Just to let you know that I haven't given up. I've got the front of the engine off and the T-chain exposed (new chain & sprockets due tomorrow, Monday, at 12:30 pm) my arms were really tired last night, I could only lift a few pints. My initial thoughts are: the timing chain has a lot of slack in it, however, it hasn't, visually, skipped any teeth. However, both sprockets look worn. I'll know how loose it was when I put the new chain and sprockets on tomorrow afternoon.

One thought, on the side, I didn't have to remove the water pump from the timing chain cover to remove the timing chain cover. This is going to be another gasket that I have to replace. Haynes steered me a little off. Also, they (Haynes) recommened that I remove the oil pan ( I didn't).

I didn't change out the MAP sensor because it is vacuum supported and Everett is right. No vacuum until the engine is running so... I'll find out tomorrow evening if this works.

BTW, I do get exhaust fumes out of the tail pipe (strongly). So I have to assume that my CAT is not clogged to the point of not starting.

Thanks again guys your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated and have kept me motivated to keep going.

(edit: I talked with my neighbor today and he has a cylinder compression gauge. If it doesn't start Monday evening I'll let you know what the compression psi is with this no start.)

Brad

BAMiller
Mar 25th, 07, 08:27 PM
You said that the oil smelled of fuel. You need to install a fuel pressure gauge and check to see if the fuel system holds pressure. you could have one or more injectors leaking fuel and flooding the engine.

Everett#2390
Mar 26th, 07, 04:30 AM
There could be a possibility of the MAP sensor being bad. An ohmmeter between one outsuide terminal and the center terminal and a hand vacuum pump on the nipple and slowly apply vacuum to show on the ohmmeter a smooth reading from one end of the scale to the other. Should be no 'holes'.

When taking a compression check, unplug INJector fuse(s) and hold the throttle at WOT (wide open throttle).

The new chain should give 1/4 inch of slack with the other side of the chain tight.

justbrad
Mar 26th, 07, 06:03 PM
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies.

I just got the old gasket mat'l removed from the covers and engine block. I will probably be putting the T-chain back on tomorrow. The old chain had about 1/2" of slack with the other side tight. The water pump gasket came in the gasket kit, yeah, something went my way. Removing the water pump was not a big problem really, so I'm glad I followed the Haynes advise. They didn't steer me wrong.

I'll check out the MAP sensor next, one way or the other, this car will run again. I'll also check out the fuel line pressure and make sure it is not loosing pressure.

I'll check back in when I get everything re-assembled.

Thanks again,
Brad

kustomwerker
Mar 27th, 07, 03:53 PM
if its a leaky inj, or fpr, the fuel pressure guage will peak when you turn on the key, and then drop...if everything`s good, it should hold pressure at the rail indefinately...i had a bad fpr diaphram on a 351w ford that pushed fuel up the vacuum supply line into the intake plenum, and choked the car right out...if you pull the line off the fpr and turn on the key, you`ll see immediately if thats the prob..t-chain play would have to be a lot more than half inch to jump time, although tis not a bad idea to change at your mileage...i`d hate to say ecm, but you`re running out of things to check,change...if you could get ahold of a scanner, you could get a data stream from the computer if its good...(you did check all the ecm fuses right???)if the fuses for the ecm are bad, you wont run...if the ses light didnt flash when you jumped out the aldl, that would have me puzzled...did you disconnect the batt to clear the comp???just checking...also try unplugging the cam sensor...sometimes a sensor can go bad, and the car wont go into limp mode because the comp cant tell that the sensor is bad...if you unplug the sensor, the computer will see that, and revert to a baseline that it knows will work even if not optimally...reguardless, there is too much fuel getting into the car, and there is only so many things that can make that happen...if i was there to test things, i`m positive i could make it run through diagnostics, but without being there, its sometimes really difficult and frustrating...i hope you get it soon...maybe everett has some more input...thats a smart guy...

fatblock
Mar 27th, 07, 06:28 PM
Brad.I read your posts.Sounds like you are rich as heck.Either to much fuel or not enough air.Did you check for a K-mart bag sucked up into the air filter?Sounds simple...but happens quite frequently.I once had a rodent fill an airbox with dog food from the garage and resulting in a no start.FWIW,I just replaced a skipped timing chain for a no start.What tipped me off was the cylinder pressure was 40 psi above normal.Not all chain fails cause retard..they can and will advance the cam timing..grabbing more cyl pressure,but throwing off spark and injector timing.

Everett#2390
Mar 27th, 07, 06:28 PM
Stop it ........ You're making me blush. I'm waiting for him to get it back together and go from there.

One thing you can do Brad, is to make sure all the ECM grounds are attached at multiple places and ensure they are making good contact to the block. You can make an ohm check from the terminal crimp to the block and ohmic value should be less than 1.0 ohm.

If and when you do get ready to start, check TPS voltage for its correct setting, approx 0.4-0.5 volts, closer to 0.5, check base timing with the dist in bypass, and base rpm with IAC unplugged and seated. The Haynes manual will guide you through it. And obviously look at the injectors to make sure they are not leaking.

justbrad
Mar 28th, 07, 11:22 AM
I got it all back together last night. Believe it or not, I'm really having fun with this. However, it would really be frustrating if this was my primary car.

I'll (hopefully) refill the oil and anti-freeze this afternoon and will post back with the results. I'll check the ECM resistance while filling the oil.

The SES not flashing is really bugging me. I checked online and found new ECM's for around $100 (not-programmed). What am I looking at for programming. I haven't checked online or locally yet. If I remove the ECM, can I take it somewhere locally and have a diag ran? Also, the battery is disconnected right now so the ECM should reset when I hook the battery back up. I've checked every fuse, that I know of, and none are blown.

What is the best way to check the TPS voltage without destroying the integrity of the wires (I'm thinking some sewing pins).

I plan to re-read this whole post this afternoon also to see if I missed anything you folks have said.

Thanks again, I'll post back in a few hours and let you know about the outcome.
Brad

Everett#2390
Mar 28th, 07, 12:20 PM
The connector for the TPS can be back probed if you use paper clips to extend the probes. Just remember, what ever route you take to measure, don't let the two leads touch each other. Check the attachment of the TPS sensor, if there are slotted holes, then its adjustable, loosen the screws and rotate. If it is not, you may have to bend the tab. The ECM will tell you if the TPS voltage is set too high or low.

ECM in the diagnostic mode should flash out code 12, if it is an OBD I.

The ECM without the prom is called a controller, the protector for the prom. On later models, starting with 1990(?), the prom is soldered into place. One has to remove the cover and see, it might be installed into a socket rather than soldered. You want to get the SAME part number of controller as OE installed. You have to transfer the prom. Do not change the prom on a metal surface nor on a carpet. Use a piece of wood and touch both metal chassis together along with yourself. Remember static electricity? I would give the chassis to an electronic friend and watch him do it.

justbrad
Mar 28th, 07, 01:33 PM
The good news is that I have no coolant or oil leaks. The bad news is it did not start. I didn't crank it very long, however, the engine sounded like it was becoming more serious about starting.

It's been 45 mins. since I tried to start and there is still pressure in the fuel lines, don't know how much. I'm gonna run out in a bit and pick up a fuel line pressure gauge. I probably should have done this first. Anyhow.

From what I've been able to find out it is OBD I. I was expecting the code 12 but get no SES flashes at all, the light just stays on. I'll be really careful to ground myself and eliminate any static if I dive into it (the ECM). Autozone has a OBD1 scanner for $25, however, the fellow there said I'd get the same info with the jumper. I might just buy it and give it a try, what's another $25 (what am I saying, that's about the cost of a 10 gal. batch of ale I want to brew).

From what I've read the e-prom is soldered. I'll check whats available locally with the ECM while I'm out.

Right now I don't have the air filter hooked up, but I replaced it when this whole mess started, no major clogs, just one autumn leaf.

I think the next step is to re-read Haynes manual sections about Injectors and the ECM.

Thanks again for all of the valuable comments.
Brad

kustomwerker
Mar 28th, 07, 05:32 PM
the 25 dollar code reader probably isnt gonna do you much good if you cant ground the aldl conn out and get the light to flash...bummer, but i really think the comp went tits up...corse, i dont want you to spend your hard earned cake on my hunch, but not much else i can think of...did you check an injector for pulse???need a noid lite...they`re probably as much as the code reader you speak of, but money better spent for you at this time imo...

justbrad
Mar 28th, 07, 06:06 PM
Okay, picked up a fuel line pressure gauge, should have done this earlier. Hooked it up and turned the key to the on position. The fuel pump ran and the pressure went to 47 psi then started to drop and was down to 42 psi in less than a minute and kept falling.

kustomwerker wrote: "if its a leaky inj, or fpr, the fuel pressure guage will peak when you turn on the key, and then drop...if everything`s good, it should hold pressure at the rail indefinately..."

So, (this is like finding lost shoes, they are always in the last place you look) I'm gonna focus in on the injectors.

(Autozone has pre-programmed ECM's for $125 BTW).

What is the best way to find out which one(s) is/are open. I'm thinking that if I pull 1 spark plug at a time I will get a pressure drop when i remove the plug that is associated with the leaky injector. Or do I need to read the resistance of each inj. Or do I use a screwdriver and listen while someone cranks the engine (really don't want to do this). If they are all open I'm thinking ECM.

Replacing the T-chain got me over the "I've never done that" hump. I'm not at all worried about replacing injectors now.

Thanks again!
Brad

kustomwerker
Mar 28th, 07, 06:18 PM
check the inj wires with a noid lite...see if you get a soft glow out of the lite...it shouldnt glow at all until you`re turning the car over...then you should get a "flash while turning over...the comp controlls a ground to the injs,so you should have power to them all, but no ground until the motor is spinning...if you have a glow, then you have a ground that shouldnt be there...that could be a comp prob, or a shorted wire, but by the ses lite thing you have going on, i`d say comp...the fpr will also bleed off, but you would only see that in 1 cyl...i believe the injectors on you8r car batch fire, so if all the plugs are wet, i`d suspect the inj`s being the leak...DO NOT check for injector pulse with an analog multimeter...you could cook the comp if it isnt already...it needs to be done with dvom hooked up correctly, led penlite tester, or noidlite...last being the cheapest...you`re gettin there bro...

justbrad
Mar 28th, 07, 07:16 PM
Thanks kustomwerker,

I'll do the noid lite test tomorrow. I believe that the ign. coils batch fire, not sure about the injectors though.

Thank you,
Brad

Everett#2390
Mar 28th, 07, 08:11 PM
Look at the injector wiring both sides. One wire will be black = power from the relay/fuse panel. Second wire is green, for one side of engine, pink for the other side. Check engine electrical schematic for sure.

The colored wire goes to the ECM and as kustom states, ECM places a low potential, and this difference in voltage opens the injector and it dispenses fuel. I would disconnect each injector and measure its coil resistance. All should be within an ohm or two against each other overall, 2-4 ohms, I think. If every plug is wet, I'd suspect the injectors are working.

Timing light flashing at the marks while cranking?
If injectors are working, I suspect ignition signal to the coils would be getting there also. The ECm takes the crank/cam sensor signal and splits it into two signals, inj & ign.

I would attempt to start with pedal to the floor, as if it were flooded.

I'm real concerned about no code 12 first and foremost. My Helms manual for my 88 Dually suggests ECM. Haynes manual suggests? Both power sources going to ECM?

justbrad
Mar 29th, 07, 08:25 AM
Everett,

No timing light. (I'm short on diagnostic tools still)
About half the times that I've tried to start it I have been holding the pedal to the floor, haven't notice any changes in the way it cranks.
The no code 12 is really bugging me also. Haynes says to take it to a qualified dealer (Don't think that is gonna happen). Autozone said 2 day delivery on a new ECM. I think I'll go order it so it is here by Saturday (yah, it's bugging me that much).
In the mean time I'll pick up a noid lite and check the TPS, inj. resistance, and check out the crank & cam sensors.

edit: I have to put this car on hold for a few days. Something else came up that I have to take care of first. I'll check back in when I get back and before I try the things I wanted to try today.

Thank you all for the responses.
Brad

justbrad
Apr 3rd, 07, 08:21 AM
Finally got back and have an update.

1. Injector resistances (all 6) were 12.1-12.3 ohms (Haynes rec. 11-14 ohms). I had no luck finding noid lites locally BTW. So, I assume inj's are okay (thank heavens).
2. The TPS checked out in the correct voltage range per Haynes.
3. The MAP checked out also.
4. Camshaft sensor responded as expected per Haynes.
5. I ordered a new ECM. It should be in on Wednesday afternoon.

That's pretty much it for now. I hope to run a compression test this afternoon and plug the injectors back in (BTW, the injectors are really tough to get to in this car).
Brad

Everett#2390
Apr 3rd, 07, 09:33 AM
I agree, if all the spark plugs are wet, its safe bet the injectors are good mechanically, and as you see, good ohm wise. However, you might do a leakdown test with pressure gauge on fuel rail. A rapid decline would mean a leaking injector.

I was looking at www.winaldl.com the other day and the site suggested GM used OBD 1.5 for 2 years, 94 & 95. Hmm, your Haynes reads? I guess what I'm saying is OBD I may not apply here.

Wedsnesday, hmm......

justbrad
Apr 3rd, 07, 04:17 PM
Wow, that is a PITA...

I did a search and found the odd '94 OBD 1.5 weard, what were they thinking stuff. (Everett, your link took me to a pic of a palm tree.)

Well, one way or another, I'll find out tomorrow if it is the ECM is the problem. I'll try and run a compression test tonight (if I get a chance) as you described and check the fuel pressure also.

Thanks
Brad

Everett#2390
Apr 3rd, 07, 05:33 PM
Sorry about the palm tree link. But you can see it wasn't a long "empire."

Your Haynes suggests? (what operating system?)

justbrad
Apr 3rd, 07, 06:14 PM
Sorry, had the book right here when I posted last and forgot it.

Haynes manual states only "OBD". It does refer to "OBD II system, used on 1995 and 1996 models".

I have not seen any specific reference to "OBD I" in the manual I have. And it suggests taking the car to a qualified dealer/shop for diagnosis. It does give the trouble codes though.

No problem with the palm tree. I googled "OBD 1.5" and found lot of references. Some of the links that the ALDL jumper from gnd to diag. (A to B) doesn't work on late 94 and 95 GM models. However, I bought this car on March 17 1994 (St. Patricks day). Is this a late 94?

Thanks
Brad

Everett#2390
Apr 4th, 07, 04:20 AM
I would think it would be an early '94. If you have any OE hoses, or something OE with the car, there will be a date of mfg for the part, or a 4-digit date code, i.e., 9403, meaning 3rd week of 94.

Date of Mfg should be on the VIN sticker on door.

justbrad
Apr 4th, 07, 05:00 PM
Well, I'm back with the latest updates.

Mfg'd on Feb, 1994.

New ECM installed and "flashed" per Autozone. Engine cranks but still no start. The new ECM also did not make the SES light flash. I've found a few tid-bits of info on this but nothing conclusive yet.

For my next trick I think I'll measure the compression and maybe try new crankshaft sensors (haynes doesn't give any diag to check them out).

BTW, the fuel pressure at the rail dropped from 48 to 22 psi in 75 mins. (0.34 psi/min) fairly consistantly.

Thanks again for your input.
Brad

Everett#2390
Apr 4th, 07, 06:31 PM
No leaking injectors.
Crankshaft sensor is a coil wrapped around a magnet. Ohmmeter should show some ohms for continuity and nothing (infinity) to ground/case. A very small AC voltage will be available as it cranks.

If plugs are wet with fuel, then I would think crank sensor is working as crank signal is used for injector timing and ignition timing.

Spark occurring at the right time? Borrow, beg, or steal a timing light.

Ever view engine cranking at night with no light? See sparks? Coil paks not broken or grounded?

justbrad
Apr 6th, 07, 11:05 AM
Thank you Everett,

Just to let you know, I haven't given up yet, but am pretty discouraged right now. I pushed the car out of the garage because I have to replace the oil in my other 2 cars. I'll pick up a timing light as soon as I can and I'll take a good look at the engine in the dark (that's a suggestion). I probably won't do anything this weekend but hope to get back on it next week.

Again, thanks for all the help. It is greatly appreciated.
Brad

kustomwerker
Apr 6th, 07, 09:30 PM
the noid lite suggestion was not to test the inj`s, but the wiring to them...you shouldnt have pressure loss at the rail as far as i know...the fuel is going somewhere...and it seems to be finding its way into the motor...lol...highly unlikely that all 6 inj`s are leaking at once...hey everett, does this thing have a dis module???without looking at it, i dont know, but that would make the problem occur...unfortunately, i work on such a vast variety of cars, i cant tell what the hell is used on what yr car anymore...lol...i know it when i see it kinda thing...

justbrad
Apr 6th, 07, 10:33 PM
Kustomwerker,

thanks. I'll find a noid lite. This car has more sentimental value to it than any other vehicle I've owned (and there have been a lot).

I keep focusing on the way it quit running (maybe a mistake), but it just died in the middle of the road, like something broke. And what is a dis module?

Thanks
Brad

Everett#2390
Apr 7th, 07, 07:29 AM
DIS = Digital ignition system used to generate the spark voltage to the coils. Input is gotten from the ECM via the crankshaft/camshaft sensor.

You would have to read the manual to find the module, usually along with the coils.

But at one post, you have spark.

kustomwerker
Apr 8th, 07, 10:25 AM
crank sensor plugs right into the dis via a 2 wire plug...yellow and brown wires if memory serves, and tells it when to fire the coils...i`m pretty sure it also grabs a cam angle signal and refers it to the comp...the dis houses several quad drivers, one of which (i believe)is for the injectors...could be wrong though...just grasping now...lol...the dis is the module directly under the coil packs...they bolt down to it...

justbrad
Jul 12th, 07, 02:09 PM
Conclusion...

I'm not bringing up an old post just for the heck of it, I just hate leaving things unfinished.

I finally had this car towed to a mechanic (about 2 months ago). And they were able to fix it. Yippee! I picked it up this afternoon. It turned out to be the ignition module was bad and caused miss firing (I wish I would have changed it out when I replaced the ign. coils at the beginning). Anyhow, the Camaro runs like new, it should after everything that was replaced on it.

Thank you to all who helped out.
Brad

kustomwerker
Jul 12th, 07, 07:16 PM
the dreaded dis module strikes again!!!lol...well, glad to see you`re back on the road...congrats...