I have had a sticky stiff clutch since my rebuild. I am pulling the drivetrain for body work and want to fix the clutch. This article from JM at CRG just might be the ticket.

I only have a problem once the car is fully warmed up. The clutch gets hard to push while standing still.


http://www.camaros.org/bellhousings.shtml#_ftn1

couple of things come to mind. hydraulic or reg linkage.did you grease the bearing and collar. is the collar bad alot of muncies need a collar. your pivot no good and also not greased.fork not installed right onto bearing also worn inside where pivot ball pivots. pressure plate no good.

couple of things come to mind. hydraulic or reg linkage.did you grease the bearing and collar. is the collar bad alot of muncies need a collar. your pivot no good and also not greased.fork not installed right onto bearing also worn inside where pivot ball pivots. pressure plate no good.

Stock linkage, no grease on nylon bearing collar per instructions. The transmission was rebuilt. I assume the mechanic would have suggested a bearing retainer if needed. Other parts were replaced. I will verify pivot etc. when the engine is out. It only works bad when it is hot.

Most likely an alignment problem. Did this start after you changed something, or has it been this way since you bought it ?? Checking the alignment of the bellhousing to crank is an excellent place to start, but as the article states, you really need to know what you are doing or buy the go-no-go gauge. If you end up buying the gauge, you could rent it out to others....;) and reduce the cost for yourself.

Most likely an alignment problem. Did this start after you changed something, or has it been this way since you bought it ?? Checking the alignment of the bellhousing to crank is an excellent place to start, but as the article states, you really need to know what you are doing or buy the go-no-go gauge. If you end up buying the gauge, you could rent it out to others....;) and reduce the cost for yourself.

The DZ, bellhousing and M20 never met each other until I introduced them to each other. It was that way since the beginning about 1100 miles ago. That is why I am thinking alignment. I am not a clutch expert. Just acting up when up to temp says something to me. I will buy the $125 tool, use it and sell it or rent it as you say.

Gary L
You don't need a $125.00 tool for this. Bell housing alignment can be checked with a dial indicator for under $30.00.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D900016&N=700+115&autoview=sku

The offset dowels you see in the CRG artical are old news. There are newer much easier to use and install dowels on the market now. http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/dowels.html

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&Ntt=lakewood+ez+dowels&searchinresults=false&N=+115&y=12&x=25

As far as your clutch pedal effort and feel goes I have experienced the same thing with some brands of nylon sleeved throw out bearings. When they're cold they work fine but when hot they bind and chatter when you push the pedal. They say not to use grease on them because the grease will attract dirt and wear the bearing sleeve prematurely. I just use a little black Moly grease on it and it works fine. I prefere the Hays 70-101 or the McLeod bearings. They are all steel and require grease in the barrel for smooth operation.

If you are installing a Muncie or T10 tranny your bell housing alignment is not nearly as critical as if you were using a Tremec or newer style tranny. The front bearing on a Muncie or T10 is a ball bearing and is much more tolerant of misalignment. The GM spec for runout has been .005" for many years and has never been an issue until guys started putting in the newer style trannies with tapered roller bearings. I would say you're safe with .015" to .020" runout when using a Muncie and a bronze pilot bushing. When using a new Tremec with a needle bearing style pilot, you are wise to stay within .005". If you are outside the .020" range your Muncie or T10 may start poping out of gear and be hard to shift.

Thanks Jim. This is the best info I have been able to get on this so far. I ordered the tool yesterday, so too late for that. I will use it just the same. I understand that part of the problem with the older blocks is that if they have been align bored or honed that throws the center off even more. I will check on the dowls you have suggested. I installed the GM roller pilot bearing on the install. I will change the throwout bearing to a steel one as you suggest. How should the bearing retainer be prepared? :thumbsup:

Gary
I use a black Moly grease (Molybdenum Disulfide available at most auto supply stores) http://www.molyslip.com/Products/MPG.html or http://www.molyslip.com/Products/HighTemp.html on the retainer and some on the throw out bearing. It won't run when hot and it provides protection from galling the retainer. There are some that don't like doing this because they fear the grease will get on the clutch or the dust from the clutch material will bung things up. Just use enough to ensure full coverage on the retainer but not too thick. The thickness of a fingernail will do. If the throw out brg, has a groove in it, fill the groove to level with the barrel. When you install the transmission take some care not to get any grease on the splines as this will find it's way to the surface of the clutch. I've been doing it this way for years and have no trouble when using this method. Also if using a Muncie or a BW T-10 the input shaft may not be hard enough to deal with a needle bearing style pilot brg. Use a bronze bushing. I know of people who used a needle brg. without a problem but I have also witnessed damage to the input by using it. If it's not too late put a good bronze bushing in and stay away from the oil-less bushings and opt for the oil soaked one.

Jim, I notice on your website you cell Luk clutches. That is what I used. Only their plastic bearing is a problem.:beers:

Gary
I use a little grease when using that Luk throwout bearing. It will work fine but I'm a little old school and like the steel ones.

If you are installing a Muncie or T10 tranny your bell housing alignment is not nearly as critical as if you were using a Tremec or newer style tranny. The front bearing on a Muncie or T10 is a ball bearing and is much more tolerant of misalignment.

Jim, Do you think a bell housing alignment of .008 is acceptable with a GF5R trans? (G-force/Nash style 5speed) It has a ball type input shaft bearing, but also has a small needle type bearing between the input and main shafts.

I have a similar problem to Gary. When everything is up to temp (hot) the clutch has a tight/sticky spot, mid way in its travel. It can be heard as a pop/ping, and can be felt in the clutch pedal.

I've tried 2 different TO bearings both with a steel type barrel and a little moly greese. I have noticed that the bearing retainer is not very smooth, it came that way. It's sort of like a rough machine job. Could it be sticking on this? I can remove it, and polish it, if you think it's an issue:confused:

I just pulled the trans yesterday, I'm changing the clutch anyway. Was using a Mcleod street twin, going to more of a race type, adjustable, two disc clutch from Rob Youngblood.
One of these http://www.advancedclutches.com/products.htm#Sportsman

Everything was new when I put it together, trans, linkage, fork, clutch, Lakewood scattershield, adjustable ball.

I just read thru the linkage install and adjust pages over at your site. Very informative and well written :thumbsup: . I will recheck everything as it goes back together.

Would really like to fix this while it's apart this time and would appreciate your input. Thanks in advance ---Bill.

Sorry Gary
I should have read the CRG article a little closer.

"The offset dowels you see in the CRG artical are old news. There are newer much easier to use and install dowels on the market now." http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/dowels.html

The Lakewood dowels pictured ARE the new style. Not sure about the Moroso's.

sc68z28
Bill
The .008" runout shouldn't be a problem with a transmission using a ball bearing front bearing, but If you have everything apart you may as well align it within the .005" spec. I would also use a bushing instead of a bearing in your application. Bushings are also more tolerant of mis alignment. There are lots of people running Muncies out there that are blaming the transmission when it pops out of gear when it's really an alignment problem. I think you're fine at .008"

You can use some medium then fine emory cloth to smoothen out the retainer but don't remove too much material. It will reduce the diameter and cause further binding. The moly grease will smoothen out the pedal stroke too.

As far as the poping sound goes I would make sure you install the throw out bearing as pictured in our article (I know you read it but just making sure) and check the geometry. Steep angles will cause binding and is hard on parts.
http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/files/Clutch_Fork_TO_Bearing_instr.pdf

Dual disc clutches can be very heavy so make sure your linkage is not bending and is up to the task. You may want to consider a hydraulic setup. If you have everything apart take the extra time for the alignment. Knowing it's right will remove any suspicion if you have any other problems and you'll sleep better too.
Hope this helps

Jim, I only want to do this one more time. So, should a stock setup follow the same fork and bearing adjustment in the link above?

The short answer is yes! A stock setup has the ideal geometry and is the same as the link above. If you're using all stock parts or parts that mimic stock measurements then just bolt it together. Just check things as you go and if it looks wrong it probably is. If you get into a jamb just take some pictures and send them to me or call me.

Just to add my 2 cents... the only good throwout bearing is the all steel one stamp with BCA#####, I will never use any other again.
Don't like roller pilot bearings, either, I use bronze, even with my Tremac. They take a licking and keep on ticking. Can you think of a more gawdawful place to put an unlubricated roller bearing?
The collar on the trans needs to be smooth. It is easy and cheap to replace if it isn't.
Get the correct clutch fork from gm. It should be angled slightly forward when the throwout bearing is in contact with the pressure plate fingers if the pivot ball ht is right.

I just yanked the almost brand new !@$# pilot bearing out of my LS1 last weekend, replacing it a bronze bushing when my T56 finally gets back from SixSpeedsInc (1-2 blocker ring was backordered).

An update on the bellhousing alignment tool. If you want to order one there are a couple of tricks.
1. If you have a flywheel dowel tell them. They need to machine a hole to clear the dowel or you need to remove it or drill the hole yourself. This would be important to you 400 block guys.
2. The 403 bellhousing has a smaller register hole than newer GM bellhousings. You need to verify the size and tell them so that the ring is the proper size.
3. You need to polish the crank flange register for the flywheel with emery cloth so that it goes on nice and easy. The alignment tool is a very tight fit. I used some antiseize just in case. I can get it on now with a little hand persuasion.

Once the ring is returned to me I can get to adjusting the bellhousing.

It's never just "easy" is it ??:( Nice to know the particulars of ordering the tool now....:thumbsup: