I got a 68 camaro not to long ago. The guy who sold it to me said the motor was rebuilt. at the moment it has under 2000miles on the new build. I dont know how to tell if that is true or not but it does run very good and doesnt burn oil. but it does this weird thing that I really dont like. after its been ran for a bit it has a problem turning off. i thought it was the igintion switch but i replaced it and still does this. i can throw the key in the off position but just before the engine stops turning it starts firing again and goes backwards too. i think the motor starts turning backwards cos it sounds funny. does this hurt the motor? if im moving at a good enough clip so the automatic transmission will have some sort of engine breaking i can turn the key off and as long as im giving it very light gas it will keep running and moving. the longest ive done that for is 10 seconds before i turned it back on. if i give it more gas when its doign that the motor dies down..

my only thought of how this can be is that the motor is not a new rebuild and it has a lot of carbonation inside. the hot carbon build-up is igniting the gasoline. so many people lie about the motor being just rebuilt when the sel la car its not funny. also i know desiel engines dont use a spark but require very high compression, ive never drove a camaro wit ha 350 that does this. then again i never seen a 350 put out as much pwoer as this one does too.. any ideas? i know its screwing up the motor because after it does that putt putt putting around and you try to start it again the starter needs to crank the engine over 5-10 times when normally if it doesnt do that it only takes 1 or 2 turns. i have msd ignition too that could be malfunctioning? i swear the volt meter shows 0 volts in the ignition circuit when its stil ltrying to run.. sigh

this is all the info he gave me for it. 350 Small Block
-----------------------------------------------------------
Crane Cam #110921
Mechanical Special
Grind Number f-244/3454-2s-6
Valve setting - Intake .026 Exhaust .026 Adjust Hot
Intake lift 518
Ex. Lift 536
Max Rpm 68000

Top Line Pro Cast Heads
2.02 Valve

Crane roller rockers 1.6 Ratio
-----------------------------------------------------------

You have your carb adjusted with the throttle blade open too much, it's called run-on. Now your idle might be right where you want it so it's going to require carb tuning and increasing the timing a little to resolve.

Out of time can cause this too.....

In the 70's this was called dieseling where I lived.
It is similar to detonation in a few aspects.
It can be affected by many factors, 2 of which you've been told... timing and idle speed.
A third you've mentioned yourself, leave the car in drive, this usually works because it slows the idle and places a load on the engine that an incomplete combustion can not support.
Another factor is temperature, sometimes the same engine won't do it cold but will do it hot.
But the main culprit is compression ratio versus fuel volatility. Can't change the compression ratio very easily so...
Try Premium and see if it behaves.
What is your idle RPM?
How hot is the engine water?
Tim

Good catch tim.

where 'bouts in OK are you?

Harley
Straight north of your hometown about 150 miles. In Woodward, when I'm home. Which this week I got lucky and am overhauling a machine 30 miles down the road. Sweet. Home every night first time in a month.
Tim

WOW! Small world. JAN09 I will be coming back home, I am getting out of the Navy. I would like to get together sometime and talk cars.......eat steaks,..yada yada

I don't know what my temp is, the gage doesnt work. my idle is 700-800rpms. theres probably nothing i can do about it, maybe the feul. atleast i have a list of reasons, thanks.

I don't know what my temp is, the gage doesnt work. my idle is 700-800rpms. theres probably nothing i can do about it, maybe the feul. atleast i have a list of reasons, thanks.

There is a lot you can do about it but you need to be willing to and not have a defeatist attitude. Can we assume you have no automotive experience? You've been given some info and now it's time to start dealing with the problem.

Go on the premise that the engine has a couple thousand miles on it since that is what you were told and you say it's a very powerful engine. If you are not into tuning it yourself find someone to put an hours labor into it. As for doing it yourself a dist wrench a screwdriver, a timing light and if possible a vacuum gauge, that's it!

Start by checking and setting the idle mixture. Typical 4 bbl has 2 screws, a few have 4. Tune the mixture screws for most vacuum and back off about 1/16th turn. If the engine is idling higher now adjust the idle down with the idle adjustment screw. Set it as low as you can but still idles in gear (automatic trans) with the engine warmed up, 650 rpm if it will stay running... Now try shutting it off. If it still runs on it's on to timing. Check and set your timing, increase the timing by no more than 2 degs at a time, as you increase it the idle should go up allowing you to adjust it back down with the throttle adjustment. Test for pinging when driving and see how it shuts off now...

Increasing the initial timing typically will also lower standing or idling temps, running good high test gas is a requirement with a performance engine and gauges to monitor temp, oil pressure and charging should be a requirement on any car. This is real simple tuning stuff but some are just inclined toward this type of play. No big deal just find someone you can trust (established business with good rep) and farm the work.

Tim's also got it, run-on, dieseling same same... You can shut the car off in gear (drive) as a temp work around but you owe it to the car to resolve the problem. Oh I almost forgot, the factory tuning spec's to meet emissions (even back then) standards often required a solenoid that bumped the throttle linkage to increase the idle when you started the engine and when you turned the key off it released closing the throttle more to avoid run-on... If you can't tune out your problem go to a salvage yard and find a solenoid to install on yours...

I don't have much experience. I just think that they tuned the car the way it should be in the first place. i dont think its the timing because ive had some experience with time another camaro with a 350 and am familliar with pings. what this car does is ping briefly under low rpm and heavey acceleration (when speeding up in an on ramp) which i think is the way it supposed to be.. but ill go to napa tomorrow and buy a timing light and hope the timing mark is accurate. what might make this timing different than the other motors is that this uses a timing gear instead of chain to keep it more precise but i dont know if the mark will change on the wheel because of their modification??

Get us your existing timing, initial (no vacuum advance hooked up) then total (rev until timing stops climbing) and finally hook the vacuum back up and do the total again. With that info a lot of us can make a better assessment.

Oh, no your engine shouldn't ping at all... There is a good chance your curve is not optimal for your engine and a chance the engine has too much compression for pump gas which would explain why it makes a lot of power... Lots of little tricks and tips thought so get the info and lets see how it pans out...

the second line of your second paragraph kinda sounds odd.. im going see what i can do with it tomorrow i guess.. maybe ill just move the distributor around until it runs better lol

1stgen
Pinging is bad, and not to be tolerated unless it is an overloaded gutless 1984 Ford F-250 351. Then you hope it succeeds in doing what it sounds like it is doing.

Your comment that the engine should have been tuned correctly initially is somewhat off base though. Hotrods don't have tune specifications per se. We have to find settings that work best for individual circumstances.

If you don't have a temp gauge, please get one for your engine's sake.

Harley... Yeah sounds good. Too bad you won't make it home this summer we could meet at Thunder Valley. Thanks for your service.

Later
Tim

First guess would be you have something in cly chamber that is igniting fuel mixture, piece of glowing carbon, thin sharp edges of cly head, anything like this to add with what others are saying. Not uncommon. If the motor runs on in the right direction, my guess would be you are running and msd dist without the diode in the charging system? Or current leakage from ing switch.

im high as heck now so im going ramble some.

i was looking into getting timing lights, cheapest is $40+tax. so i didnt buy one, im going travel to my parents house tonight and steal my dads when hes sleeping. if he knows im taking it then he will know i bought another camaro and wont lend me anymore money lol..

then tomorrow i take it to a pals house and have him rev the engine which i do the timing light. Someone on here asked for intial values, how do I record what you need? What extactly do I write down, that the light is on a specific notch?

well if its not supposed to be pinging then it has to be my timing is off and not something glowing in the cylinder, ignition leakage, or carburetor adjustment. it would also explain why the motor runs a little rough when accelerating in the 2000-3000 rpm range. after 3000 it sounds real good again. i just keep thinking that this is timed and adjusted for a reason. how can someone who has the skills to rebuild the entire motor not time it correctly? is it possible that as the motor breaks in it needs to be retimed? that sounds a little odd to me though. and there is this very distinct ticking noise that i really hate when the engine is idleing. it kinda goes away after its hot.

unfortunately i font have the money to pay someone to fix my temp gage. i have a gage and it looks hooked up, its in between the alternator and oil pressure gage that work just fine. temp gage is the only one that sits ther on 100 degree and wont go up and i dont know how to fix that. the other 2 camaros ive had never had over heating problems.

but if i get any jobs i can hire someone to get this one fixed.. actually chase bank has just sent me an application to get me my 3rd credit card with them that will have a business name on it ehehe.. its kinda funny cos i put the entire cost of the car on the first 2 cards with them. personal account @ 2k with 2k left and business account card @ 8 grand with nothing left.. but now they want me to have another business account card so if I get another credit line on that with at least 5 grand im going send the car to the shop to get it a supercharger and posi =D can anyone recommend a decent supercharger for my 350 small block, im hoping to achive an additional 100hp for a total of 450 hp which will finally be sufficient for a camaro.

actually chase bank has just sent me an application to get me my 3rd credit card with them that will have a business name on it ehehe.. its kinda funny cos i put the entire cost of the car on the first 2 cards with them. personal account @ 2k with 2k left and business account card @ 8 grand with nothing left.. but now they want me to have another business account card so if I get another credit line on that with at least 5 grand im going send the car to the shop to get it a supercharger and posi =D can anyone recommend a decent supercharger for my 350 small block, im hoping to achive an additional 100hp for a total of 450 hp which will finally be sufficient for a camaro.

you're ridiculous...

The engine dying when you give it more gas shows it's a hot spot, not an ignition feed problem.

There is a lot you can do about it but you need to be willing to and not have a defeatist attitude. Can we assume you have no automotive experience? You've been given some info and now it's time to start dealing with the problem.

Go on the premise that the engine has a couple thousand miles on it since that is what you were told and you say it's a very powerful engine. If you are not into tuning it yourself find someone to put an hours labor into it. As for doing it yourself a dist wrench a screwdriver, a timing light and if possible a vacuum gauge, that's it!

Start by checking and setting the idle mixture. Typical 4 bbl has 2 screws, a few have 4. Tune the mixture screws for most vacuum and back off about 1/16th turn. If the engine is idling higher now adjust the idle down with the idle adjustment screw. Set it as low as you can but still idles in gear (automatic trans) with the engine warmed up, 650 rpm if it will stay running... Now try shutting it off. If it still runs on it's on to timing. Check and set your timing, increase the timing by no more than 2 degs at a time, as you increase it the idle should go up allowing you to adjust it back down with the throttle adjustment. Test for pinging when driving and see how it shuts off now...

Increasing the initial timing typically will also lower standing or idling temps, running good high test gas is a requirement with a performance engine and gauges to monitor temp, oil pressure and charging should be a requirement on any car. This is real simple tuning stuff but some are just inclined toward this type of play. No big deal just find someone you can trust (established business with good rep) and farm the work.

Tim's also got it, run-on, dieseling same same... You can shut the car off in gear (drive) as a temp work around but you owe it to the car to resolve the problem. Oh I almost forgot, the factory tuning spec's to meet emissions (even back then) standards often required a solenoid that bumped the throttle linkage to increase the idle when you started the engine and when you turned the key off it released closing the throttle more to avoid run-on... If you can't tune out your problem go to a salvage yard and find a solenoid to install on yours...

Just one thing to add to that; Timing can affect the idle mixture, you should recheck it after any timing adjustments.

Oops, one more thing - if the vacuum is run off a timed port (no vacuum at idle) try moving it to a full time port.

Good Luck!

you're ridiculous...
Yeah, they'll keep giving you cards until you're REALLY in trouble. :o

Good Luck!

Why can't you afford your own timing light?

Umm supercharger or timing light? No timing light.........install supercharger..........don't fix existing problem..............engine goes bang and blows chunks through supercharger................engine will no longer run.............new supercharger trashed..............you will not need a timing light at this point.

Buy a timing light, take class or get someone to help you understand what your doing or buy a book. If it's pinging you can and will when stepping on it burn a piston or a valve. Those little metal parts glow red hot and keep you engine running if you have other adjustments out of whack. As long as it will diesle it will continue to have just enough vacume to draw a little fuel to keep it dieseling until it stops and the glowing parts cool a little with the raw fuel. That's when you hear it sound like a innertube with the air being let out very quickly. Not real good to be doing to your engine and carb. A good way to bend valves, break springs, bend pushrods and beat the crap out of your bearings. If it's an older Holley with no power valve protection, you will spend $10.00 each time it does this to replace your power valve.

Once again...............buy a timing light and get one with a dial back option because you have to time it with total advance and check how fast it's coming in. At this point $100.00 for one is cheap to save the money from all the damage your doing to it right now.

Now I know why dad will be mad if he finds out you bought another Camaro. My advice, learn how to work on it then make it fast. You will save money on parts and asprin and have left over to pay your credit card bills.

Joe

Joe, your reply has no bearing on my post. i dont buy a timing light because i dont want to spend the money when i can get one for free. i haven't even driving the car ever since i posted here about this problem. my father would be pissed if he knows i have another camaro because he doesnt want to be paying for it..

to the other Joe - i cant afford my own timeing light because im 13 grand in debt and wish not to spend $40 on this device if i can get it for free.

if you joe shmoes cant understand what i write then dont reply to my thread!

Oh, we understand.
;)

Why does your dad think he would be paying for the Camaro?

Good Luck!

Joe, your reply has no bearing on my post. i dont buy a timing light because i dont want to spend the money when i can get one for free. i haven't even driving the car ever since i posted here about this problem. my father would be pissed if he knows i have another camaro because he doesnt want to be paying for it..

to the other Joe - i cant afford my own timeing light because im 13 grand in debt and wish not to spend $40 on this device if i can get it for free.

if you joe shmoes cant understand what i write then dont reply to my thread!

Hey look at your post from when you are say "im high as heck now so im going ramble some"
So off you go rambling about this ".. but now they want me to have another business account card so if I get another credit line on that with at least 5 grand im going send the car to the shop to get it a supercharger and posi =D can anyone recommend a decent supercharger for my 350 small block, im hoping to achive an additional 100hp for a total of 450 hp which will finally be sufficient for a camaro."



Sounds to me like from your orginal post it came from a shop already. If this is the case and it's pinging it's not tuned right!!! It's that simple, there is not set spec to put it at and that has been explained. If you plan to take it back to the guys that did the engine and tuned it for a supercharger you will have engine parts scattered up the on-ramp.

Some people here have givin you sound advice. The one tool your going to need in your tool box witha performance car is a quality dial back timing light or some timing tape. In your case and lack of experiance go with a dial back. I suggest if you can't afford to tune your car and need to rely on "stealing" your dads timing light while he's asleep just park it and get off the dope and come back when you sober and can think clearly.

Peace out brother...........you don't need my help. As I/we have only tried to explain what was happening inside your engine and the need to fix it before spending more money on go fast mods. Everyone else go ahead and help this guy with his "stolen tools" I for one will not. Let us know when you grow up, get sober, get a job and are no longer a thief then you might earn some respect from the Shmoes.

Joe Shmoe (incert smiley with middle finger here)

Why does your dad think he would be paying for the Camaro?

Good Luck!
Bob, you must have missed it. He bought the car with CREDIT CARDS!!!!
He has no money and now he's looking to get another card so he can SUPERCHARGE IT!!! Hell it pings NOW. The compression is too high already and he doesn't know you can't put a blower on such an engine. His solution is to just get high, snitch his daddy's tools and get more credit cards. Wonder if he even knows how to spell responsibility?:mad:
Edit: Joe, you beat me to it. Clearly I was too easy on him but you said it like it is. Good job.

whoa im tripping really hard now, so i went out to try to time it and now my ears are ringing like mad from the gear drive and i got no where. ive used it on several 350's before with no problems but on this motor the light just flashes with no mark. i tried on all the wires properly facing towards the spark plugs and yet no mark formed :(.

joe schmo you seriously embellished my theft of tools from my father. he doesn't care what i use that is his as long as it doesnt lead to him finding out that i bought a camaro. what is so god damn hard to figure out about that!?

fred, i hint that youre trying to be a twat and saying im not responsible. I can spell fine by the way and if anything is misspelled it is from typeos in which I don’t proof read because this forum isn’t about novelty. Mr. perfectionist. you think i like being stoned 24/7 i need to numb the cronic pain i have. my small business is too slow to afford much so if my dad doesnt know a camaro is on my credit cards he will eventual pay them off because he is rich and doesnt fuss over thing that are 10 grand. i say i sold my daily driver (saturn) and tell him the engine was bad and buy a newer car which he wont even check because he doesnt care and go ok whatever. you people who have a problem with that are probably jealous that their father didn’t give them so much money to screw around with.. man you made it sound like I went to my neighbors garage to steal something.

but yea if i wasnt high all the time on oxy i probably wouldnt even have bought a camaro because oxys make me give in to marital impulses. and i wouldnt ramble on forums like i am now but anyways i appreciate those of you who are giving sound advice, even freds fisty comment was helpful because now i know i cant get a supercharger (for some reason, maybe you can explain in another 'im going e-spank you reply')

but guess what, I have a few grand left on my cards so im going to napa to buy a $80 timing light because that is the best they carry wooohooo 80 dollars down the drain because ill probably never use it again/ I wonder if $80 can pay someone to tune it for me? Im going call around and fine out =D bastards.

This is becoming a waste of bandwidth... Let's call this done and move on before it gets any worse...:yes: