This is the second time! I think it's the pump AGAIN! I have been highly dissatisfied with this tranny since the purchase. First was covered by warranty. I have driven it no more than 200mi since getting it fixed. Now the warranty is up, I'll see what they say tomorrow.

Any suggestions on what I should say? I am ready to ship it all back to them and tell them to stick it! I think I'll be nice until they tell me my warranty is over, then I will take all of my frustration out on them.:mad:

well what kind of transmission and what kind of motor was it installed behind.

well what kind of transmission and what kind of motor was it installed behind.

Oh yea, Level 3, 700r4 behind a 475hp 383. This tranny is rated to handle (i think) 750hp.

Oh yea, Level 3, 700r4 behind a 475hp 383. This tranny is rated to handle (i think) 750hp.

LOL, 700R4 rated at 750 HP. Good luck with that.

The problem with a 700R4 is if it's not a full manual valve body the throttle valve cable must be set perfectly. With a lock up converter on a 700R4 it requires the torque converter clutch to be pressurized with fluid to lock .That means if the pressure is too weak the torque converter clutch continues to slip, which means it will send debris and crap throughout your transmission. From what I have been told the only one way to get a 700R4 to live under high torque & high HP is full manual valve body, no lock up converter and a trans cooler the size of New York.

I'm not a fan of the 200-4R but I hear they are picky as well. The early 700 R4's were junk. They had 27 splines. The later ones had 30 splines. If you are building a 700R4 it is best to use a core from 1987 & later. Why? It was in 1987 when Chevy put a 350 engine in front of the 700R4 and the tranny was built better than the 1982-1983 versions and the 1984-1986 versions as well.

I spoke to a buddy of mine who runs in outlaw super stock the other day. These are full steel bodied, full interior cars with monster engines or you can run a smaller car and have less weight and run a 406, 427, 454 instead of 572, 632 or 640 BBC, or Mopar or Ford. The 200-4R which many guys here are a fan of is a piece of crap!! In stock form it's a much bigger peice of crap. The 200-4r has a weak input drum, a weak sun shull & stator and uses many of the internals the turbo 200 did. The aftermarket has stepped up because they knew how failure prone these turds were and now the 200-4r can be built much much stronger. However, to build a bullet proof 200-4r costs $2,645 from the real Art Carr at cpttransmission. For that kind of money you can build a 4L80E. And if you don't need overdrive forget all of them and go with a Turbo 400. (see below)

As far as the turbobuick.com page, hmm makes you wonder why all their outstanding members on their home page run turbo 400's. Ditch the electronic version of the Turbo 200 aka 200-4r and even the 700R4/4L60/4L60E. The 200-4R will not hold up in alot of the cars on the turbo buick home page and the 700R4, 4L60, 4L60E won't hold up either into the 8's, 9's or maybe low 10's which these cars are running.

You can see how small the input drum of the 200-4r is here http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46278_automatic_transmission_overdrive_install/photo_12.html

Here are the 200-4r sprag units. Note how small they are http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46278_automatic_transmission_overdrive_install/photo_13.html

Here is another interesting artcile about 200-4r vs 700R4 http://www.firstgenfirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/trans_clutch/trans.html

If you look closely at the Chevy High Performance article it shows you the first gear in the 200-4R & 700R4 are steeper than the THM 350 & THM 400 they replaced. This is because when these tranny's came out in the early 1980's they were designed to launch the car harder out of the hole behind a very weak engine and deliver fuel economy with the overdrive features. You can't have the strength of the Turbo 400 and have overdrive unless you put a gear vendors overdrive unit behind it or go with the Quadzilla 4L80E. That 4L80E trans is a monster!! A turbo 400 with overdrive!!

Nonetheless, make sure Bow Tie overdrives is not using an early built 700R4. Make sure the TV is set up properly as well and good luck. I hope everything works out!!

The 200-4R which many guys here are a fan of is a piece of crap!!


thanks for the misinformation, much appreciated! :p Mine survived behind over 800 rwtq and drag radials for over a year with NO damage or wear. Yes, it was pulled apart for a free inspection by the builder and couldn't even find a single clutch to replace..... nothing.

Yes, it's expensive, and no, it's not the strongest auto trans made, but it's way stronger than he needs when correctly built. So is the 4l60 for that matter. His problem isn't the trans at that power level, it's the way it's being built, parts used, and the guy building it if it keeps failing.

No problem using a 4L80E other than cost and weight, and a TH400 is a good alternative if you don't mind losing overdrive. Also the first gear on the 2004R is like the TH350/400, it is not low like the 4L60. Overall your 2004R comments are incorrect.

Jody

Patrick - My experience tells me if BTO covered your trans and provided warantee service you satisfied them that the install and setup was done correctly. Steve (the owner) is real specific with respect to setup. I can't say how it will go now you are off warantee but give BTO a try and see if they come through. It's not always the builders fault, parts manufactures can make bad parts and pass them on to the shops doing the builds... When the concentric lobe for the fuel pump went away on my Comp hyd roller cam I could have blamed the engine builder but Comp after testing the cam sent me a new one. I guess they just had a bad core to start with... See where I'm coming from?

BTO has a dependable product and that is what makes me think maybe they just got a bad batch of parts.

The problem with a 700R4 is if it's not a full manual valve body the throttle valve cable must be set perfectly.

I once trashed a newly rebuilt 4L60 (700R4) on the way home from the trans shop. The shop didn't like my modified stock TV cable (http://www.blown.net/ngvintake.jpg), and insisted on using an aftermarket cable that had an adjustable lenght housing. I stomped on it at a couple of stoplights, and at the 3rd or 4th one, the TV cable housing slipped. It shifted out of first and never engaged second until I lifted off the throttle. Limped back home, found the problem, swapped cables, and it drove OK if I didn't get in the throttle but slipped like crazy on WOT shifts.

Jody,

Thanks for the response. I will say that the stock internals on a stock 200-4R are crap. Did you see those photos of the input drum and stator? They are small & weak. Here they are again.


http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46278_automatic_transmission_overdrive_install/photo_12.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46278_automatic_transmission_overdrive_install/photo_13.html

A 200-4R according to Chevrolet High Performance Magazine has a 2:74 first gear. As you said, that's more than a 700R4/4L60/4L60E which have a 3:06 first. It's also a little more than the THM350 & THM 400. The 200-R4 was used behind Monte Carlo Super Sports with weak 305 engine's and Buick Grand National's with stock V6's that made no low end torque compared to today's engine's. The 700R4 & 200-4R debuted in the early 1980's due to fuel economy, what's so incorerect there? The newer Corvette's & Camaro's use 4L60E or 4L65E today. In stock form they are much stronger than a stock 200-4R and the engineers at GM must feel the same way since they use that trans instead of the 200-4R. What's so incorrect there? The stock 200-4R is no better than a stock Turbo 200 and that's a fact as evidenced by the photos above. In stock form vs stock form the 1987 & later 700 R4 is a superior trans to the 200-4R as evidenced by the choice of the electronic version of that trans used in the 2002 LS1 Camaro & newer Corvette's.

You are correct in that a 200-4R can be built strong, very strong and will hold up with the right trans builder and right cost. Many more times a built to death 200-4R will hold up better than a 1987 & later 700R4/4L60 as proved by the time slips of BBC cars with moster torque like yours. However in stock form a newer stock 700R4/4L60 is better than a stock 200-4r and the photos above illustrate that....That's what I meant in saying the 200-4r is crap. In stock form it's marginally better than a Tubo 200 in a 1979 Buick Regal behind a Pontiac 301 cubic inch V8.

In stock form the 200-4R is crap just like the early 700R4's are crap. You can build the 200-4R to be strong. I agree with you.

Tell me, how many cars did you see at www.turbobuick.com home page using a 200-4 on their home page? Answer: Zero!! That's all the information one needs!! When racing the THM 400 will always be king!!

On the street a well built 200-R4 is fine, so is a well built 700R4. For racing most people will give the edge to a built to death 200-4R over a built to death 700R4 built by the same builder with non lock up conveters and full manual valve bodies. But if it was my choice I'd pick the THM 400. For racing the THM 400 is king of the automatics!! One day the 4L80E will be.

speedfreek, I have heard nothing but good things about BTO on both their 700R4 & 200-4R. Call them and hopefully they will rectify the situation for you.

GM engineers likely went to the 4L60E in all the cars because of interchangeability and less inventory, not sue to any weakness of the 200-4R. They used the 200-4R in the GN's which despite being V6's were torque monsters when the boost came on.

They still use some design elements (parts) of the 200-4R in other transmissions, like the 4L30-E, which shares many components but aren't used in GM cars. They are used in BMW's.

Don't let the size of the components fool you, larger parts bring on their own issues and actually cause failures. This is true in 700-R4s and TH400's. Larger parts (in weight and diameter) cause more strain on clutches, sprags, bands, and input shafts. The heavy direct drum of a TH400 is part of the reason the intermediate sprags are failure prone. The 4L80E has the same components.
The large amount of weight of the reverse input drum and input drum on a 4l60 type trans are why the input shafts have issues at the mating area with the aluminum drum.

That small 27 spline stock input shaft on a 200-4R will withstand approximately 550 ft/lbs of torque relatively reliably. You can build a 200-4R to take 550-600 lb ft reliably without too many fancy parts. You would need an improved forward drum, larger 2nd servo and band, good direct setup, add a clutch to OD, and proper VB calibration. The rest is stuff that you would do on a stock rebuild, hardened stator ($15) and sun shell $13), etc.

Tell me, how many cars did you see at www.turbobuick.com home page using a 200-4 on their home page? Answer: Zero!! That's all the information one needs!! When racing the THM 400 will always be king!!



You must have missed Eric Shertz's car on the TB site. Look for DynoTech.
Might also look at some of the 200-4R powered cars on CKPerformances site.
Jody's transmission was built by Bruce at PTS.

There are a few 9 second cars running 200-4R's. Yes at that power level they need more billet parts and freshening every season, but so does a TH400.

Jody is what I would call a BTDT, "Been there, done that", he's not just spewing information he read online or from a magazine, he has actually ran these "crap" transmissions behind considerable power.

GM also used the 700R4 in police cars instead of the 200-4R. Here is a photo of a 700R4 with the so called police car tailshaft housing.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46278_automatic_transmission_overdrive_install/photo_06.html

As far as the Buick Grand National, I LOVE THAT CAR!! I was in my later teens when those things came out!! I also LOVED the fact the 1986 & 1987 Buick GN would eat a Corvette alive. There was a guy here with a license plate that said Vet Etr 1 or something like that at one time. We all loved it. Here is a 1987 GN vs a 1987 (first year of the 350 in the 3rd gen) IROC-Z. The 1989 & 1990 IROC-Z would give the 1987 GN a run for their money.

Guys you will love this article on Grand National history http://d0n_3d.tripod.com/86-87history.htm That's another reason to bash the primma donna Corvette brass at GM. So what if the GN kicked their tail and bruised their ego. Long Live the Grand Nationals and yes their 200-R4 as well!!

P.S. Eric Shertz's car is not one pictured of the cars listed on the photo of their oustanding members home page on www.turbobuick.com There are five Grand Nationals/Regals pictured on their home page on the left side on the outstanding member section. Four of them list the trans they are running in their bio's. Of the four all four of those cars are running THM 400's and not 200-4R's!!

Just talked to Steve. He made me feel as if they would cover it. Not just yet though. He said he wanted Chris to call me back. He must be the builder. I'll keep yall informed.

Hey guys:

This thread is perfect timing. Chris is a technician at BTO I believe. I just spoke with him yesterday as I am putting a 700hp 650 lb ft motor in my new 70 Chevelle. I am looking at a 700R4. Chris tells me I am pushing it by going with that tranny and recomends the 4L80E that he says will hold 1,000 ponies. The problem with that is the 4L80E is a couple of grand more than the 700R4 so I have a decision to make. I would really like the OD tranny to help with revs and mileage but I have a TH400 in the car now.

I am interested to see more posts on this topic and to hear how BTO responds to the problem.

i would ask them what broke last time and what happened this time. if the pump gear broke both times. the pump needs to be replaced it heats up and warps dont ask me how but i had that before from experience.also if they ask you install trans making sure torque converter spins and you pull tc to flywheel flush before tightening any tc bolt.they will say thats the problem you didnt pull it flush and cocked it in pilot.

The pump went out first time, said manufacture defect. I've been searching for a vibration problem since installing this tranny. I told them that I've narrowed it down to this trans and I didn't want it back in my car! I also said: I bought this tranny for 2 reasons,
1) wanted faster 1/4mi time! (has a lower 1st&2nd ratio therefore faster takeoff) Didn't happen because it takes more hp to turn this trans than a th350
2) wanted killer top end speed! Didn't happen, I can't hold it to the floor cause it wont shift out of 3rd gear.

mstehle Mark , pm sent

the valve body needs to be corrected theres a kit to make a full throttle 3/4 shift. tranny didnt come out of a corvette than. cause corvettes have that kit from gm.

Been there done that. Hp, Hi-Revs and Auto Trannys did not mix for me. I found dependability and something cheap to fix before it self destructed in a Muncie. My Dad ran a Th350 for years behind a 327 without problems but he never went over 5000rpm either. I wish you Guys luck and sincerely hope you find the solution that I could never find.

Patrick - I can't believe you don't have enough power to push that trans off the line. You're turning 1.6 sec 60' times, what was it before the overdrive trans? Lower isn't always better, I mean a guy running 4.56:1 gears doesn't see an improvement switching to 5.50ish gears unless the rest of his setup can handle it. With a 3.06:1 1st gear and 4.10's out back that has to be like having a mid 5 rear with a TH350... Maybe you should look to a 3.72 rear gear to get you back to the equilivent of a 4 something rear... The 700r4 also has a long 1 - 2 stretch you need a wide torque curve to get past that as well. For drag racing I would want to be rpming at the top of your power curve across the finish line in 3rd and not worry about being in 4th at wot. There is a solution for the shift though if you just have to have it.

Anyway hope Steve takes care of you and if it has to go back tell him what you really wanted to do with this trans and see what he says and can do.

Your exactly right on the gear issue. My before time was 1.7 with 3.55 gears. I might have gone to far on the gears, might go back to the 3.55.

Steve said they could install the W.O.T. kit for me. I will let them if they warrant tranny. He said he wanted me to be satisfied. Made me feel a lot better. He seems to be a nice guy. I'll keep yall posted.Patrick - I can't believe you don't have enough power to push that trans off the line. You're turning 1.6 sec 60' times, what was it before the overdrive trans? Lower isn't always better, I mean a guy running 4.56:1 gears doesn't see an improvement switching to 5.50ish gears unless the rest of his setup can handle it. With a 3.06:1 1st gear and 4.10's out back that has to be like having a mid 5 rear with a TH350... Maybe you should look to a 3.72 rear gear to get you back to the equilivent of a 4 something rear... The 700r4 also has a long 1 - 2 stretch you need a wide torque curve to get past that as well. For drag racing I would want to be rpming at the top of your power curve across the finish line in 3rd and not worry about being in 4th at wot. There is a solution for the shift though if you just have to have it.

Anyway hope Steve takes care of you and if it has to go back tell him what you really wanted to do with this trans and see what he says and can do.

Sorry for the ignorance as I am still a newbie but I hear references to the "Real Art Carr". Is there more than one or is this just a name that he has acquired over the years? Is this different from the Art Carr on this link? http://www.artcarr.com/ This Art Carr builds high performance tranny's and I want to make sure I go to the right source.

Thanks

However, to build a bullet proof 200-4r costs $2,645 from the real Art Carr at cpttransmission. For that kind of money you can build a 4L80E. And if you don't need overdrive forget all of them and go with a Turbo 400. (see below)

The REAL ART CARR TRANSMISSIONS are sold at California Performance Transmissions - http://www.cpttransmission.com/
Level 2 Tranny is $1899, 2400 Stall HD is $275

artcarr.com just bought the rights to use that name from Art awhile back.

I just bought a BTO Level 2 (200-4R with 2200 stall) from Steve at BowTieOverdrives.
Level 2 Tranny is $1100, 2200 Stall HD is $175

Brian:

Yep after more searching I found the Real Art Carr. I need a tranny to go behind 700 hp and 670 lb. ft of torque. I will keep searching and calling people. Don't want to steal this thread so I will post a new thread here and over at big brother (Team Chevelle)

Thanks

I got a quote for a full boogy 200 from the real Art Carr a while back for when my M-20 leaves me and he said 800 hp was no problem, altho pricey!

I really like rowing my gears tho so am still looking for an inexpensive 4 or 5-speed that can handle that much, but haven't turned one up yet...

The 4L80 jobber is really the way to go, but it is BIG and PRICEY!!!

I don't know if the big Ford OD trans is any cheaper or if MOPAR even made a big engine OD trans back then that might be considered IF strong enough IF cheap enough to try to save some money???????????????

Where are you "older tranny" guys at??

pdq67

I sure am enjoying reading everyones posts. This is a good place to hang out when it's cold or dark outside. I don't want to steal anyone's thread, I just want to speak up.
I don't run any OD tranny's, never been inside one but I have 2 700's I been thinkin of strewing and building 1 to stick in my 66 someday and see what happens. Figgered I'd listen and learn and think a few more years. I'm learnin some on this thread. I'm pretty behind the times on tranny's but my brother owns a tranny shop. He surprised me the other day, and agreed with me that one day I should go to a Lenco for my drag car. Everybody I know wants one. Just too cool.
Speakin of Mopar tranny's I got a monster I'd be happy to give anyone with the cajones to come haul it off. It weighs a stinkin ton.
Tim

wolf, you wont regret goin with the od!!!one of the most cost effective improvements i`ve ever done...

77,

What MOPAR tranny is it??

A 4-speed stick, A833 or a 727 3-speed auto out of a big engined, big car?

Again, does anybody know if MOPAR ever made a big car 4-speed OD auto before they got bought up?

And sorry for the small hy-jack here, just trying to learn something as usual..

pdq67

UPDATE: Just talked to Chris the builder at BTO, he thinks my engine crankshaft is out of center, like my engine was line bored and it moved the crank off center! The block was line honed. He said I might need offset dowel pins. He wants me to measure: crankshaft end play and the runout on the crank roundness?

I told him that I had a th350 in it for 5 yrs with no problems and he said the pump on the th350 is stronger than the 700r4.

I'm thinking of putting my th350 back in! Sounds like they aren't gonna fix it. What do yall recommend?

Sounds like you need to take the measurements and get back to them. It's worth a try.

Dont waste your time with the 700 or 200. Go straight to a TH400 and a GV overdrive. I have it in mine and love it. Plus if you ever hurt the 400 any local builder can do it for dirt. I found my GV used and paid $1000 for it.

Dont waste your time with the 700 or 200. Go straight to a TH400 and a GV overdrive. I have it in mine and love it. Plus if you ever hurt the 400 any local builder can do it for dirt. I found my GV used and paid $1000 for it.

I'm thinking very hard on going this way. I can sell my 700r4 and have enough money to buy a used GV easily. That's after I get a new pump. Anyone know how much a pump is?

www.bulkparts.com has the best prices it seems on Trans parts. I just bought a few items including a new Flywheel for $20, inspection cover for $10, grounding straps for $1.50, Transmission Magnet for $.79, 200-4R Filter for $3.96 WOW!
30 spline pump is $197 ( AR74500B )
Rebuild Kit is $30

Checking runout will show if you have a bent crank, not if it is off to the side. Does your rear seal leak? I bet not. Does your oilpan bolt on? I imagine so. A couple thousandths wouldn't affect the pan but might the seal.
700 has a vane style pump instead of gears. I've never built a 700 pump, but I have built a million air starters. Vanes are very forgiving clearance wise compared to a gearset. He must be saying that the 700 pump has a weaker bushing than a 350 pump. Which to me has a pretty flimsy bushing.
According to his diagnosis, you need a precision measurement from the dowels to the crank center. Tough to do without a bunch of mikes and special jigging. Put the weight on him. Make a gasket of the back of the engine and mail it to him and tell him to prove it is off center. This guy is grasping at straws.
Unless he is talking about your flywheel runout. I can't think of a way to check that runout due to the teeth. And that's not what he's concerned with anyway. It is the concentricity of the torque converter bolthole pattern to the engine crank. Ah, bolt the converter onto the flywheel, mount a dial indicator against the converter shell and turn it a few revolutions. See what you get. Nope nope nope, those holes are slots. Allright, I'll try to dream you up a way to measure the crankcenter to dowels. What kind of mikes do you have available? What you need is a flywheel with no teeth. I haven't looked at a manual tranny flywheel this century, don't they have an area behind the ring gear that is machined?

I reread this and I have it. Assemble the tranny onto the engine. Leave the converter bolts loose. Mount an indicator against the converter shell and check the runout. The pump bushing is centering the converter in this check. Now tighten the bolts and recheck the runout, any change is due to the crank center being offset and/or flywheel/converter boltholes. Runouts should never be over half the clearance of the adjacent bearing is my rule of thumb. Zeroes are prettiest, and zeroes don't lie. In addition to doing rotational runouts you need to see how much the converter moves to the side when you tighten it up, that will be a hell of an indication of what your BTO guy is implying. I think you will find everything pretty, maybe a thou. But it all depends on how accurate the converter shell is, they aren't precision are they. Best I can dream up on short notice. Hope it helps.

PDQ, it ain't a 727. I built one of them 25 years ago.
Other than that, it's the one that weighs about 300 pounds easy. My son gave it to me, someone gave it to him, I'll give it to you. Supposed to be out of a Dodge truck. Take a truck to move it. Come get it. Please. I have it tarped.

Tim

wait wait wait first time did they replace the complete pump or just change the rotor. thats what broke to stop it from moving. second time what broke rotor again. first thing did they replace complete pump. if they didnt than thats the problem ive seen it before pump warps when hot binds rotor and breaks it. for a 700r4 pump ill sell you one for 50 bux. if its not a 4l60-e. if engine was line bored and you got 2 dowel pins in engine it isnt your fault it is theres.you check crank for runout by prying flywheel back than go to front of car and pry on pulley forward shouldnt have any movement at all. if the line bored job wasnt right lol you would of had problems with oil leaks from front and rear of engine and killing the 350 pump and torque converter. look at the 350 tc on hub if its wiped out problem with motor not wiped out problem with trans. will be a groove on hub.

Thought about this all stinkin day when I had time. Actually not, had it figgered out by 7 am on the way to work. Part of it stumped me awhile.
What we need is a laser with a magnetic base stuck to your crankshaft flange.
You could get one of those cheap kids lasers that teachers steal and then take home to play with, and tape or clamp it to the crank.
Tranny installed, no converter. Any tranny.
Move the laser towards the center until it just touches the pump bushing then rotate the crank. Got to be parallel to the axis of the crank though, I'm thinking. No, any out of parallel would serve to magnify the out of alignment if it was obtuse, and minimize the misalignment if it was acute. It would still be a circle. So if you measure the diameter of the lasered circle and it is larger or smaller than your diameter of rotation you have the ratio of the error in respect to 1:1 readings.
Voila.;)
Ray Charles would be able to see any misalignment.
You could even take an MPG movie of it and email to BTO.

That's a pretty good idea wolf. I have read both of your post several times and everyone else's, I will take a look at it today and post my results here. Thanks all for the advise.Thought about this all stinkin day when I had time. Actually not, had it figgered out by 7 am on the way to work. Part of it stumped me awhile.
What we need is a laser with a magnetic base stuck to your crankshaft flange.
You could get one of those cheap kids lasers that teachers steal and then take home to play with, and tape or clamp it to the crank.
Tranny installed, no converter. Any tranny.
Move the laser towards the center until it just touches the pump bushing then rotate the crank. Got to be parallel to the axis of the crank though, I'm thinking. No, any out of parallel would serve to magnify the out of alignment if it was obtuse, and minimize the misalignment if it was acute. It would still be a circle. So if you measure the diameter of the lasered circle and it is larger or smaller than your diameter of rotation you have the ratio of the error in respect to 1:1 readings.
Voila.;)
Ray Charles would be able to see any misalignment.
You could even take an MPG movie of it and email to BTO.

UPDATE: I just got my tranny back from local shop and the bill was $1,338.29 OUCH! He said that BTO didn't put a "z pack" in for 3rd gear and the "boost valve" was missing and a lot of other bad things that I can't remember. The pump had locked up for some reason and cracked the converter snout also. The shop that fixed the conv said it was poorly built. They cut it open and replaced everything like bushings and bearings.
I'm thinking about sending BTO a copy of the bill along with a letter and see if they will pay for some. What should I do?

reman pump , ,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,, 149.50
no yo valve kit , ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 38.22
master kit , ,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,, 77.62
3/4 z pack ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 50.00
raybestos race clutches,,,,,, 90.00
bushing kit , ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 18.77
.500 boost valve , ,,,,,,,, ,,,,, 26.41
3/4 shift valve assbly , ,,,,,,,,,, 50.00
kevelar band , ,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,, 48.97
OD sprag double cage , ,,,,,,,,,,, 36.47
filter ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 14.89
rebuild tq conv & freight, ,,,,,,,,,, 195.38

LABOR .................................. 500.00
total ----------------------------------- -----------
.................................. $1,338.29

Do these prices look ok?

Anything under $1,500 for a 700R4 or 200-4R IMHO is a great price. You can stop reading here if you wish.

Just my 2 cents from here on out---To make a 200-4R strong you have to use billet everything and that costs $2,500 or more. For a 700R4 the 1982-1986 cores are not very good. Most shops use 1987 & later. By 1990 or 1991 the 700R4 was renamed a 4L60. These cores are much better as the 4L60 was using a 13 vane pump by then. Several shops today are using 4L65E internals like the 5 pinion planetary gear & other non electronic stuff on the 4L60. For the critics out there who like to criticize everyone I know the 4L65E is an electronic trans. Nonetheless, people are still using the internals off this trans inside the 4L60 or 700R4.

Personally I think the 1-2 shift of the 700R4, 4L60, 4L65E $*cks!!
A stock 1987 or 1988 200-4R out of a Monte SS is a much bigger piece of crap trans than a stock 700R4 out of a 1987 or 1988 5.7L IROC-Z. The 200-R4 shares many of the same internal components as the biggest piece of crap trans of all time the Turbo 200. By the time you make a 200R4 strong for over $2,600 from cpt transmissions (a great company) you might as well spend an additional $400 and get a 4L80 (without the E) full manual valve body. The 4L80E is a turbo 400 with overdrive and is much stronger than the 200-R4 or 700R4/4l60/4L65E and will stand up better to a MAMMOTH BBC with insane amounts of nitrous on it. The turbo 400 I love, but with the GV OD it's pricey.

For those of you who are prepared to send me hate mail once agin over the 200-R4. I am not bashing the trans. I am saying it's big $$$ and costs nearly what a 4L80E costs.

P.S. The 200-R4 is not even being offered anymore by companies like Hughes Performance www.hughesperformance.com, B&M www.bmracing.com and others. If you don't need OD go with the Turbo 400 all day long!! Always remember nothing is invincible!!

For those of you who are prepared to send me hate mail once agin over the 200-R4. I am not bashing the trans. I am saying it's big $$$ and costs nearly what a 4L80E costs.



Actually, the fully built 2004R's are more money than most any of the built 4L80E's. Plus the 4L80E has the benefit of even more power potential, fully self-adjustable electronic shifting, etc.

My 2004R held up to over 800 rwhp without a whimper. But at $3000+ for just the trans (no converter) I now use the 4L80E's.

Jody

I'm thinking about sending BTO a copy of the bill along with a letter and see if they will pay for some. What should I do?



I think you'll be out of luck. You didn't even give BTO a chance to fix the problem, you took care of it yourself. I think you should have either asked them to fix this tranny (again), or ask to get your money back.

Personally, I think it can be one of two things: bad parts, or bad installation. If two trannys go bad, and all BTO transmissions are like this, how could they be in business? IMO, think long and hard before you point a finger to someone.

I think you'll be out of luck. You didn't even give BTO a chance to fix the problem, you took care of it yourself. I think you should have either asked them to fix this tranny (again), or ask to get your money back.

Personally, I think it can be one of two things: bad parts, or bad installation. If two trannys go bad, and all BTO transmissions are like this, how could they be in business? IMO, think long and hard before you point a finger to someone.

I talked to them and they made it sound like I was responsible. I did not want to chance losing over $150 in freight plus parts and what they would have charged me to rebuild it. Now if something goes wrong with it I can talk to the builder in person and he is a friend of mine. I will never buy something this expensive and have to worry about if someone will warranty it.