I've had a question for a while about where the front light harness routing goes on a non RS 68 Z. The AIM shows it between the inner and outer fenders with the washer hose. I have seen some original cars with the harness and hose "tied" to the inner fender with two vertical straps poked through holes in the fender about a foot apart. My hose was in this when I bought it. The holes and straps look to be original. Does anyone know where it should go for sure and why some were on the fender? Was it because of options, was it just the hose or what? :confused:

it should go between the inner and outer fender........

it should go between the inner and outer fender........those plastic retainers your refering to held my washer hose only.....

Do you know why it would show the hose going with the harness and what would make some hoses go on the straps?

Do you know why it would show the hose going with the harness and what would make some hoses go on the straps?

my rs hoses are with the light harness..(between the inner and outer fenders)
my winshield washer hose is in the straps i can say that the washer hose is in the straps due to the location of the water bottle.if the washer hoses were routed between the inner and outer fender,they would have to go in a round about way.

When cars were assembled back then the workers didn't always follow Chevrolets assembly manual to the last detail. My car was assembled in December of '67 in LA. My light harness was incorrectly installed as you said yours was, on the fender well under the two straps. Also my car was incorrectly assembled with a small radiator instead of the HD one that an A/C car should have, probably a shortage or something? I would follow the AIM if you want your car assembled the way Chevrolet intended it to be?

Daryl

OK you 1968 Z guys.
I have a GM photo, copy (SCANNED) of the 68 Z28 engine bay photo that was printed in the Camaro Enthusiast a few years ago and rarely see people reference it with regards to details. Appears to be a Norwood car as evidence by the PTB stampings. Contains tons of very interesting details.
I can not post it but am willing to send it to someone with the skills to do so.

No 68 restorer should be with out this photo!

P.S. Harness routing seems very clear in this picture:)
Understanding variances with regards to production output would naturally apply

Jim

Mine is not an RS and I have seen some non RS Z's with the wire harness and hose attached on the fender, not in between. I posted this on CRG and got an incomplete reply, either lack of knowledge, interest or both. Some people thought it was an LA vs NOR thing and some thought it was options. Mine is very basic, no options. I was hoping John Z might chime in or Kurt, or somebody that might have an explanation that would make sense. So far, the workers doing their "thing" makes sense as that happened at times. Mine has these plastic straps that pop into the inner fender. The fenders, holes and straps all look original to me and it's killin' me not to know why or what these were used for as I am ready to put the wire harness back in. Anyone know for sure, or is it going to be a mystery?

PS I do have the console gauges and assembly date 05 D if those are factors.

My 05D (Los Angeles) harness is routed inside the fender as shown in the AIM. Only the RS hoses are inside the engine compartment and held in by the retainers, also as shown in the AIM.

Ed

OK you 1968 Z guys.
I have a GM photo, copy (SCANNED) of the 68 Z28 engine bay photo that was printed in the Camaro Enthusiast a few years ago and rarely see people reference it with regards to details. Appears to be a Norwood car as evidence by the PTB stampings. Contains tons of very interesting details.
I can not post it but am willing to send it to someone with the skills to do so.

No 68 restorer should be with out this photo!

P.S. Harness routing seems very clear in this picture
Understanding variances with regards to production output would naturally apply

Jim


Jim, email me the scan. I'll post it for you. (My email address is my user name)

Ed

My 05D (Los Angeles) harness is routed inside the fender as shown in the AIM. Only the RS hoses are inside the engine compartment and held in by the retainers, also as shown in the AIM.

Ed

Did all 68's have these holes in the inner fenders for these straps? If not, why would my non RS have this stuff? Some wanna be "expert" doing something custom? There were some pretty dumb things somebody did to this car maybe that's all it is. I guess I'm trying to figure out why these holes and straps were even on it. I don't remember seeing them on some other cars, but I didn't really look that close.

my orginal 69 was routered along fender with "vertical clips"....I moved everything to up under the fender to keep the engine bay 'clean'

Okay, I just went through all the pictures in my (limited) database (around 400 cars) and here are the results (note: I only used cars that appear stock and un-modified for the results):

Norwood cars - About 20 percent of NON-RS cars had the wire harness in the engine bay, 80 percent inside the wheel well.

Los Angeles cars - About 40 percent of NON-RS cars had the wire harness in the engine bay, 60 percent inside the wheel well.

ALL RS cars had the wire harness inside the wheel well and the vacuum hoses in the engine bay with the retainers. (See note 1 below)

Of the NON-RS cars that had the harness inside the wheel well, NONE of them had holes on the inner fender for the retainers. Of the NON-RS cars that had the harness inside the engine compartment, they all used two retainers (see the picture). I also found a few "modified" cars with the holes in the inner fender, but the harness inside the fender well.

So.... it appears that Daryl is correct and the line workers didn't always conform by the "rules"!!

NOTE 1 - The RS Vacuum hose retainers are not the same as the wire harness retainers shown in the picture below. The RS vacuum hose retainers are of the type that fold over on themselves and only have one nipple to insert into the inner fender. One hole is required for this type of retainer. The wire harness retainers are of the style as seen in the picture below, where they have two nippes and "pinch" the harness against the inner fender. Two holes are required for this type of retainer.

Ed

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/harness.jpg

Ed,

That's the best answer I've gotten so I'm going to go with it. Thank-you for all your work on this! I was tearing my hair out (what's left anyway). I'm going to go with the fact that my items seem to be original, that that's the way the car was built. My straps look like the one's in your pic and it's an LA build.
Again, thanks for the effort Ed, and to the others who chimed in. I really do appreciate it.

Harvard

My wire harness 'could' have been moved in its lifetime after previous owner has an accident and replaced both inner and outer fender. This is how it went back together, the straps are not necessarily correct either :) This is LA built RS Oct68 build.

http://www.carsbyjim.com/storage/RSstuff/69RSvacHoserouting.jpg

Jim I can't say about 69's. I just researced the 68's.

I would see if JohnZ can comment on yours (although I DO know the black zip-ties are incorrect).

Ed

Yep I knew they were not correct but to get on the road, I got them at local store until someday I worry about being correct with the right ones :thumbsup:
Would like to hear JohnZ's input on this, its a neat sort of curious topic to me. Always learning. :)

Okay folks. Here's the picture Jim (169indy) sent me. Interesting shot of a brand new 1968 Camaro Z28 Engine compartment (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/?action=view&current=68Z.jpg)!

Thanks Jim

:thumbsup:

(By the way, after you click on the link above, click on the picture itself and it'll enlarge.)

Ed

All you need to figure out is if GM put the wiring into the front end before they assembled it into one peice. The "doghouse" consisting of the entire front end sheetmetal (minus the hood, grille, and bumper I think) was bolted together and installed as a single unit. If the wiring was installed before that (I don't think it was) then maybe it could have been routed up under the fender, if the wiring was installed after it was assembled and installed on the car then there is no way GM would have wasted time trying to fish the wiring between the fender and inner wheelwell.

I know on my car (69 Norwood)the wires were originally clipped to the inner fender in the engine compartment and held inplace with those two plastic clips (just like the AIM shows). The RS hoses was then supported from the wiring harness with a pair of giant Zip ties, like the ones that hold the hoses together up under the upper lip of the core support.

My 68 Z got dinged a few points for having the wires on the inner, so I wanted to find out why there are 4 holes punched, not drilled, on the inner. The holes are there to hold the plastic retaining clips. I searched all the 68's I came across and I found that the Nor cars had the wires between the inner and the fender and the LA cars have them on the inner. I have some pictures of mine in its original state, and the wires are clearly mounted to the inner, using the plastic straps to hold them. For what its worth.

Okay folks. Here's the picture Jim (169indy) sent me. Interesting shot of a brand new 1968 Camaro Z28 Engine compartment (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/?action=view&current=68Z.jpg)!

Thanks Jim

:thumbsup:

(By the way, after you click on the link above, click on the picture itself and it'll enlarge.)

Ed

If this is a brand new 68 Z28, why is the RS windsheild washer tank on the wrong inner fender and none of the brake lines have the spiral flexible armor on them (unless this is a 69 only type of feature)? Is this a very early car?

Mark,

68's had the tank on the drivers side. 69's had them on the passengers side. As for the spiral armor and the date of the car, that's unknown. It "should" have the armor.

Ed

Guess I should stick to 69's for all the little detail items.

If this is a brand new 68 Z28, why is the RS windsheild washer tank on the wrong inner fender and none of the brake lines have the spiral flexible armor on them (unless this is a 69 only type of feature)? Is this a very early car?


This is a NOR 1968 Car photo. from an old issue of Camaro Enthusiast magazine from the 90's.
This was part of a 'Parts finishes article'.

The armor is likely below the sight line in this particular photo, lower in the shot closer toward the frame.
It is on my REPPOP lines on my 68 and closer to the frame area.

Jim

Is this a very early car?

Looks to be that way. The "CT" Diverter Valve was only used on the early cars. The "DH" valve was used after that.

Also note the date on the Shroud. 12-2(?)-67.

Ed

I can't speak to 68's, but non-RS 69's had the harness out in the open on the inner fender, retained by two plastic straps, each of which required two holes for their two snaps, located almost aligned with the two top inner fender-to-fender reinforcement bolts/weldnuts.

The front sheet metal "doghouse" was built up off-line as a complete assembly, including wiring, plumbing, voltage regulator, horn relay, etc.; all that was necessary after installing the doghouse was to connect the forward lamp harness multiple connector (after combining it with the engine harness connector) to the engine side of the fuse block and drive the center bolt.

:beers: