Has anyone used USC's All-Metal as a lead substitue filler, at the Roof Sails ??

Do a Search.... All-metal looks like it's a good way to go:

http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=004565#000002

http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003986#000003

http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003927#000004

http://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002853

All-Metal is the only filler(other than lead I use.) It sands well and is waterproof. There was some posts a while back about this filler containing talc which makes it not waterproof, so I did an experiment with it, I made a "cup" out of it and filled it with exactally 3 oz. of water, covered top with plastic ( to stop evaporation) and waited 3 weeks. After that I re-measured the water- 3 ozs. This shows that none soaked through the sides or bottom. The cup was about 1/8" thick. I highly recommend this material for your application other than lead which is more flexible but takes more cost/skill to use.

Oramac, this is a whole different thread but did you have a "standard" in which to judge the outcome of your test? If you didn't have a "regular" filler sitting next to that one in a cup with water you learned nothing. "Soaking" up water like a sponge and "absorbing" minute amounts of water are two completely different things.

I didn't call the USC tech dept like I did Evercoat to ask about their claims on the cans of "Metal to Metal" of "water proof" so I sure wouldn't sit in the witness stand and testify to the claim. But the MSDS sheet is as near as your local USC distributor and you can look to see if it has talc. EVERY SINGLE filler I have checked does. If it has talc, it is not water proof. It may be "water resistant" but it is not "water proof".

This is however a moot point. The product is not going to be exposed to moisture anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

On the subject of whether "ALL Metal", "Metal to Metal", Alumalead" or any of the metal filled polyester fillers is better than lead, well again, without a standard to judge, who knows.

I personally have filled them for years with "regular" plastic filler without a failure, EVER. However, at the very same time, if I were to do one at this point in my life I would go ahead and use either Metal To Metal, or Everglass just for the warm gooy feeling it will give me inside.

Martin, nice to see you back, haven't seen any of your posts for a while. Anyway my test wasn't that scientific, but i was trying to justify USG's claims of waterproof. Whether small amounts of water were absorbed, who knows? It seems the base material of this product is a resin-based, similar to fiberglass resin, which encapsulates the aluminum and talc particles, thereby making it highly water-resistant or at best water-proof. I'm not doubting your opinions on these different products, it's that when I do different prodjects over the years, I want materials that last to eliminate or reduce callbacks so thats why I try different materials and brands. Also shrinkage is a large problem on many fillers that I have used and this one seems to shrink very little. I hope you will add this product to the tests you were doing on different fillers.

Oramac, I'm with you guy. It makes perfect sense that the resin would "incapsulate" the talc as you say. That is exactly what I have thought for a number of years after reading the "Water Proof" on the label of the can.
After this subject came up here and someone mentioned that it had talc like "regular" filler (which also is polyester resin like fiberglass) I called the tech department at Evercoat. I was told that it IS "waterproof" IF it is primed and painted! I told him, "hell, cardboard would be waterproof if you primed and painted it!" He wouldn't even go as far as to say that it was "more" moisture resistant than "regular" filler. It has talc, check the MSDS, it actually has MORE than "regular" filler (at least "Metal to Metal" does). Honestly, this is not my opinion on the subject, I am going with what the tech department at Evercoat told me when I personally talked to them on the phone.

Martin, What i'll do soon is call USG's tech line and see if we can get some answers on this subject, if this product is no better than regular fillers, we might as well save our money and just use regular fillers like you said previously. I'll get back to you on my findings........... graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Well...it's been 9 months. graemlins/waving.gif

What did you find out. smile.gif

I don't know what you guys found out, but I just used USC "ALL METAL" to fill my sail panels and the stuff is great. Pictures are on the website and filler was used to skim over the all metal filler once they were complete. At 19.00 a quart it is a bit pricey but is a great product for sail panels seams.

Graeme

Oh s**t has it been that long? Anyway, go to USCHEM.com, go to all metal, tech sheet,#14010, 14060 and it will give a list of attributes, some of them being,.. tack free, prevents bleed thru, excellent adhesion, RUSTPROOF & WATERPROOF, preferred by classic car restorers and so on. One of the best things about it, is if you compare flexural strenght with their other fillers, it beats it hands down, especially in areas that could be subject to increased flexing such as sailpanels or hoods.

I'll stick with using everglass in structural areas and over welded seams. It has proven to be the best product with zero failures. I've had poor luck with the aluminum stuff, nobody uses it in my area anymore-the rust capital of the world.

Bob, I do know that stuff holds up like concrete.
I never thought I would ever recommend someone to fill rust holes with a filler but I have and I will. Depending on why you repair things one way or another, sometimes you just have to do something "hack" like this. I just recently did it on my VW. I wasn't going to cut out and weld in metal on this car. It was a little hole (about the two square inches) so I just filled it with Everglass.
Now, I do so after seeing the stuff do some amazing things when I was a rep. I serviced an area right on the coast of California (boy do I miss that part of the job). I had one shop in Mendicino (that is where "Murder she wrote" was set, Mendicino was "Cabot Cove") and he use to do some quickey "repairs" on the county school buses and things like that sometimes. I saw him hill HUGE holes with Everglass (availible at NAPA auto parts under the Martin Senour Label name "Fiber Hair" #6369)on these buses and they would last ten more years or so before they junked them. I saw how if looked after a few years and it was amazing. This is a VERY harsh climate and was a heck of a test.

That is the bestest reason I was so surprised by the Evercoats Tech on the waterproof aspect of it.

So Everglass is the 'hands down' champ?

So Everglass is the 'hands down' champ? In my opinion yes. Where strength and moisture resistance is number one I think it can't be beat. The silver stuff isn't any better than regular fillers from what I've seen. I also like to epoxy prime under my fillers but that's another preference I guess. To each his own, whatever works for you I guess. I'd put my money on everglass if anyone wants to do some testing. :D

Originally posted by Oramac68:
go to USCHEM.com, go to all metal, tech sheet,#14010, 14060 and it will give a list of attributes, some of them being,.. tack free, prevents bleed thru, excellent adhesion, RUSTPROOF & WATERPROOF, Oramac68, you are confusing marketing dribble with fact. It says "waterproof" on Everglass, Kitty hair, Tiger hair and Metal to Metal as well. I personally called the tech department. I was told by the Evercoat tech that it is NOT water proof by it's self. It IS waterproof if primed and painted. That my friend is NOT waterproof. But with the magic of marketing, they can say it because IF you prime and paint it, it is smile.gif

I havn't used Allmetal in years, I have not looked at the MSDS but if it contains talc, it is NOT waterproof.

Yes, it has talc, 15-25% of it is talc. Quite a bit less as I remember Everglass was about 40%. This may make a big difference, and it is "more" water resistant. All Metal MSDS (http://www.uschem.com/msds/index.html)