OK Gentlemen 2 great engines. Two legendary codes L88 & LS6. The 427 L88 :thumbsup: vs the 454 LS6. :thumbsup:

If either of the two engines above was available in any Camaro from 1982-2002 which would you rather have?

Note: I said 1982-2002 because I know alot of first gen guys would choose any type of 427 no matter what. The 2nd gen guys will say the 454 existed in special order Baldwin-Motion Phase III option in early 2nd gen's I want unbiased opinions here. That's why I chose 1982-2002 Camaro's. We all know you could not get a big block in brand new 3rd or 4th gens no matter how hard you tried from GM.

Calling all engine experts: Which was the better engine? The L88 or the LS6. :confused: I posted a poll and let the debate begin.

As always...ALL REPLIES ARE WELCOMED!!

This post probably belongs in 'bench racing'.

Cubic inches rule.
LS7 would be better than LS6 if we're talking hypertheticals.
But then I'd just go a ZZ572/720.

I think he's talking about engines that were stock and actually sold in cars, but to unbias it, in the later cars that never offered them is all..

I put a mild 496 in my '67 car so there you have it.

pdq67

pdq,

You are absolutely correct. A stock factory engine is what I meant. I used the 1982-2002 Camaro's because even if you tried to special order a show room racer like a 1LE or a police car B4C you could not get a big block. This way there would be no answers like well in 1969 you could get a 427 COPO or Yenko and in 1970 you could get a 454 Baldwin Motion. Then you would get a response such as if it was a 1967-1969 people would want a 427 because it was "correct" for the era but if it was a 1970-1973 people would want a 454 because it was "correct" for a Baldwin Motion car and for the era of the 454 powered cars like a Chevelle. You know someone would respond like that...

The SSG&H Bottom Line: Like you said pdq this way it's unbiased. No way you could get a factory big block when buying a brand new 3rd gen or brand new 4th gen. This way people could pick what they wanted if a Big Block was available lets say in a 1989 or 1990 IROC-Z or a 2001 or 2002 SS Camaro....I really would like to know what people feel is the better engine a stock 427 L88 or a stock 454 LS6.

They both rock, period.

I think the 427 has the "wow" factor more than the 454. When you tell somebody you have a 427 under the hood, they know its old iron. When you say you've got a 454....it could be a crate motor, could be from a dang 1-ton dump truck, etc.

The L-88 is really a poor street motor. No low speed torque way too much cam and generally a pain to drive. The LS-6 is really a great street motor tons of torque and will run forever without continuous maintenance.

With a 12.5 compression ratio the L-88 would require high octane racing gas. With its more aggressive cam and higher compression I believe an L-88 would beat an LS-6 by a fair margin. I would love to have an L-88 Corvette.

The L88 was more of a racing engine then the LS6.
Did you mean to compare the L72 (427) to the LS6?
The L72 is a great engine used in the 1966 Corvette and Passenger (full size) and the 68-69 Passenger (full size) and in 427 COPO cars including Yenkos.
Many magazines and web sites claim the 69 Yenkos used the Corvette engine but really is more accurate to say it is the 69 L72 Passenger (full size) engine since the L72 was last used in the 66 Corvette.

The L72 and the LS6 are both great engines and probably pretty close in HP because the LS6 used a low rise intake which was less HP then the L72 high rise intake

I'm stay'in out of this one!:D

JMT's:The 454 would be the better powerplant because of its street characteristics compared to the L88 427.

As said, the L88, an excellent engine itself, internally balanced, short stroke, is like a bigger 302, but with a BBC rumble.

But, if all three items were in front of me, I'd be installing the L88.

The 454 LS-7 is pretty-much the eq. of the 427 L-88.

And a good L-88 w/ just headers on it uncorked should go up to 530 to 550hp, imho, easy..............

And guys have said the LS-7 the same way goes up to 600hp+!!

A handful to say the least!!

pdq67

I have run both on the street believe me the LS -6 is a far better motor especially with a cam change.

I'm still a little confused..
Why not just jam as many cubes in there as you can/want, then dress it up with the valve covers and air cleaner decal of your favorite engine?
Looking at the engine from the outside, who's going to know or care?

You either want more horsepower or you dont!

The L88 has well over a 100 extra HP over the LS6. The only advantage the LS6 has is fuel is more readily available.

Heres a question, is there any difference in a 1967 L78 camshaft for lifter oiling? That is will any BB cam work?

No doubt..the LS6 is more streetable.Something about winding out a 427 to 7 grand tickles my fancy a tad bit more.The L88 gets the nod in that department.No tire frying torque like big brother 454...but screaming RPM to get the job done and just plain nasty a$$ attitude.Can I get mine with a Grumpy Jenkins tunnel ram and 2 Fours???:hurray:

454 is a boat anchor....L88 rules...always has, always will

454`s are smog motors. :D

454...has my vote..:cool:

I'm still a little confused..
Why not just jam as many cubes in there as you can/want, then dress it up with the valve covers and air cleaner decal of your favorite engine?
Looking at the engine from the outside, who's going to know or care?

You either want more horsepower or you dont!

In a race situation the engine that can develop the highest RPM will win generally. (That is why the Z/28 at only 302 cubic inches was such a terror or the strip). Horsepower is a number that is calculated not measured. We measure torque, and applying that torque, over time, gives you your horsepower. The more time you have to apply the torque (the higher you can spin the motor) the more horsepower you can develop.

The cam is the decider of how high the motor will spin (the L-88 and the LS-6 both used the same block, and heads and shared the same intake; only the crank and the cam were different; though the LS-6 was a lower compression engine so technically the pistons were different). I have owned three L-88 crate motors and built an LS-7 (same compression as the L-88) out of GMPP parts. On the street the 454 ruled, at the track the L-88 would put it on the trailer.

An L-88 with two Holley 660s on top of an Edelbrock TR-2 tunnel ram, M-21 tranny and 5.13 rear gears twisting Firestone 12" compound W slicks made for a best of 10.13 in my Camaro. Never came that close with the LS-7.

Larger Dave

(the L-88 and the LS-6 both used the same block, and heads and shared the same intake;

Larger Dave


L88 used different heads and intake then the LS6

I'm stay'in out of this one!:D
Oh, c'mon Fred! Guys like myself, who have only dreamed about driving one of these beasts, would love to hear your thoughts. How do you get around the high compression/octane issue? Is your engine lower compression? Octane booster? Race gas?

I voted L88, being an RPM guy. But the LS6 was no smogger! Unless you count tire smoke...:thumbsup:

With a cam change the LS-6 definately has more HP than an L-88. The 291 head on the LS-6 will out flow any L-88 head closed or open chamber.

OK, not to be a smart ***... but i've personally driven both several times..

however, the LS6 in a Chevelle and the L88 is in a 67 camaro,,, also have access to an LS7 and L72 in 68 Camaros... a buddie owns three of the four and I've driven them all...

i'm talking about an L72 with manifolds, th400 and 4.10 gears,
L88/4speed M22) 4.10 gears with headers, , and LS6 4speed 3.73 gears, with headers and LS7 with TH400 and 4.56s-headers.

to say the L88 has no street manors is pure trash... it is the one I prefer of them all. The car is an absolute joy to drive and aside from the required 110 in the tank, it pulls alot harder than the LS6 from 3000 up, and they both kill the suspension below that point so its hard to compare... the LS6 is friendlier from easing out of the whole without slipping the clutch, but it has a smaller cam, and 25 more cubes so that isn't hard to believe.

The LS6 runs out of steam at 6000.... the L88 pulls till 7000 and would probably go beyond. The L72 is great because it has plenty of low end, pulls almost as hard as the Ls6 but pulls an additional 500-700 rpm...
by the way, the LS6 and the L72 share the same cam.

even with the gas, I'll take the L88 all day long.
the LS7 is great too, but the 454 just doesn't seem to have the zing that the high winding 427 does. even with the ZL1 cam that it has.
But you can't argue with the additional Cubes.

L88 gets my vote.

you wanna hear it?
I have a video of the L88 in a 67 camaro idling on myspace LOL

A

you'll have to do a myspace search for me.
aaron kaleniecki

good luck

A

69z28boy,

What is going on w/ the diff of "butt feel" between the L-88 and the LS-7 is just like you said, STROKE!!

The LS-7 is by far more powerful than an old L-88 only b/c of cubes!! I figure 530 to 550hp vs 600+ easy is all reading the old mag tests from back there and I still have my old mags too....

That said, the 454 LS-7 WON'T rpm "FEEL" like the old 427 L-88 b/c of the longer stroke is all, so there you go!!

Next!! 454(?) jobber here is ALL!!!!

My 454(?) motor here would be a homemade...............

4.625" b x 3.375" s = 453.6" BB high winding MONSTER!!

You would need to use EXCELLENT parts, but it should go above 10,000rpm EASY!!!

pdq67

PS., and I would really say to heck w/ rpm's b/c I want to build a 4.625" b x 4.375" s = 588" BB, 9.8" tall deck block engine and spec it for max. midrange grunt and gear and tire my car accordingly and go!!!

Can you say "STEALTH"!!!

OK, so you want rpm with the 3.76" stroke..
Why not just put that crank in a GenV/VI 502 block with a 4.5" bore and have 478 cubes? You'll have your rpm, your cubes and therefore, more power.

A DZ302 was a killer for sure, but it was only a 302 to keep it under 5 liters and within the rules. Had the rules allowed 6 liters, they would have had a longer stroke ~370ci and gone faster, because more cubes = more horses.

This smaller motor logic kills me. Maybe I'll destroke an L88 to 3.5", rev the crap out of it and make even more power!
My 454 smog-boat anchor already turns 7400 with just 290cc ports and makes 520 at the wheels, which ain't bad..

I find it funny how gear heads can never just answer the question at hand! That being said, I have owned my 427 since I was 15 yrs old. I have had it in every street car I have owned for one reason or another. The beuaty of the 427 on the street is it is faster reving eng. I have raced against a Baldwin Motion 454, 4speed 71 Chevelle, Ed Isky preped 70 440 Cuda, 68 Vette with a LS7 4 speed tunnel ram with dual 750 DP, a 67 Gt fast back Mustang with a 427 ford SOHC eng in it and a 69 Dodge Charger with a 426 HEMI. Back in the day remind you. On the street, we went at it for best of three out of three. The truth is I put them all on the trailor the hardest car to beat was the 440 cuda. I enjoyed beating the HEMI charger and the Mustang the most. I pulled the CUDA by a fender right from the hole all the way side by side and held it there. Anything from a roll if you were cruisng all you had to do was drop a gear and say good bye. The faster reving 427 was great for that!! I still have the Eng and I am currently installing it in my street machine type 68 Chevelle. For street cruising my vote the 427.

:boxing:

i don't disagree that cubes are king,

but you can easily make more power with smaller cubes, more compression, and a larger cam .

in this comparison, he was asking about an L88 vs LS6.

the L88 wins hands down.
more compression,
much larger camshaft,
bigger heads, etc... it was designed as a race motor.

the 454 LS6 was an openchamber, stroked version of the L72.
A great motor for sure, but not compared to an L88.

How about Zl1 vs LS7?
that shoudl be an interesting comparison.


This debate is a big block version of the DZ302 vs 350LT1.

take your pick.

i was just reading a discussion on roller cam vs flat tappet cam, and one of the arguments is that you had identical profiles, (one roller and one flat) you'd see very little power gains on a dyno... however the roller engine revs easier and with less heat.

the debate continued with someone statin that you will not see significant power gains becasue of the way the dyno loads the engine, however on the track, you'll see anywhere from .2-.4 difference in the 1/4.

I'm not saying that I agree with it, but if this has any merit, it would also contribute to why people like the "free reving" capabilities of the 427 vs the 454.

Just a thought.

i don't disagree that cubes are king,

but you can easily make more power with smaller cubes, more compression, and a larger cam .

in this comparison, he was asking about an L88 vs LS6.

the L88 wins hands down.
more compression,
much larger camshaft,
bigger heads, etc... it was designed as a race motor.

the 454 LS6 was an openchamber, stroked version of the L72.
A great motor for sure, but not compared to an L88.

How about Zl1 vs LS7?
that shoudl be an interesting comparison.


This debate is a big block version of the DZ302 vs 350LT1.

take your pick.

Not quite true here, the LS6 uses the same basic closed chamber heads as the 427 did. If you want to compare them on a somewhat equal level you will find similar horsepower numbers but higher torque numbers from the increased stroke. Better for a heavier car.

I have had both at over 600 horsepower with equal parts but much more torque on the 454.

Harry P. Hunter

Harry said what I'm poorly trying to..

The shorter stroke crank engine winds faster, but the longer stroke cranked engine will make more torque!!

pdq67

The L-88 and LS-6 don't hyave the same basic head. The closed chamber alum head is not much of a head and the open chamber early head is just about the worst thing GM ever made in stock form. The 291 head the LS-6 uses is the best non serious race head I have ever run. Sure the L-88 has more compression (when the pistons aren't so loose the rings wont seal) and a better cam but the LS-6 with a cam and intake change makes more power over just about the hole RPM range of the motor.

The L88`s were equipped with closed chamber aluminum heads. 12.5-1 with full floating pins. The LS6 454`s were open chamber iron smog heads. ' clean burn supposedly' and 11-1 with pressed fit pins and weighed in at over 70+ pounds more than a L88. No conceivable way are they better than a L88. The only 454 that was really close to the 88`s is the LS7 and still lacked aluminum heads, full floating pins, and a 1/4 point in compression. Comparing the stock engines LS7 and the L88, the 88 is good for several hundred more pulling RPM`s. even though it`s about par in the 1/4 with a slight edge to the 88 at 11.2`s in two my cars both running at 120+ mph trap speeds.

Chevy changed the engines over time.
The early L88 had alu closed chamber heads, later L88 was alu open chamber heads.
The 1970 LS6 had iron closed chamber heads, 1971 LS6 had alu open chamber heads, later LS6 crate engines had iron open chamber heads

early LS7 was planned to have alu open chamber heads but the later crate engines were iron open chamber heads

would have to go by the part numbers to know what you have