I've been looking for a resto project for my 17yr old for almost three months and in that time it looks like prices on cars have tripled!.

These sites like racingjunk.com, ebay and many more are totally out of line.

Look at this car and tell me you would pay more than $5k for it.
LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=150133479829)

I too have been watching prices creep up. Sadly, there seem to be many uninformed buyers overpaying (they like the car for what it is regardless of being a clone, NOM, etc.). Those of us who are informed are challenged to buy these cars at a fair price because we know about cowl tags, VINs, etc.

Rich - you're sounding real out of touch with prices. I'm not saying that 70 Z/28 is priced right but you won't fine one that didn't have a land mine go off under it for $5k these days. If $5K is your price you need to look at '72 - '76 Novas and Camaros, '67- '68 Buick Skylarks might fall in there and some of the other not so popular cars from the era.

If you missed it the seller is finishing the car for the sales price...

I too have been watching prices creep up. Sadly, there seem to be many uninformed buyers overpaying (they like the car for what it is regardless of being a clone, NOM, etc.). Those of us who are informed are challenged to buy these cars at a fair price because we know about cowl tags, VINs, etc.

Well said!! Way, way too many people over paying!! There are still deals out there though! :thumbsup:

You can thanks Barrett Jackson for the trippiling of the prices!

Dennis, I would give $15K for an original 70 Z28 but that car is not a #'s matching car.
I'll go further, the only thing on that car that's 1970 Z28 is the fenders and frame. The motor and trans are gone, the dash and interior are gone.

I don't think that car is worth squat without those items.
I seen a nice 70 RS project car at the Good guys show, for $3500 but it sold 20 minutes before I got to the guys house.

My thinking may be a little out of touch but asking $40k for a Z28 in pieces is unrealistic too.

You still missed the fact that the guy is selling the car finished not in pieces... Last I heard a numbers '70 Z28 split bumper was approaching the $100k range.

****!, Your right.

I didn't see that dammit.

My bad

"Well said!! Way, way too many people over paying!! There are still deals out there though! "

You have to remember an items value is only what someone is willing to pay for it. Placing a value on something means little anymore.

ex: Say I have a record collection worth 100k, well its only worth 100k if someone is willing to buy it at that price.

The rise in cost's on certian rides are just going to happen, the good old supply and demand overrides NADA every time.

its just like everything else!! gas,food,housing........

simple supply&demand economics that we all learned in grade school.

how much is a car worth?
(answer)what the market will bear!

the market is really funny right now. With all these car auction shows, weekend muscle car tv and all the great after market stuff for sale this trend may continue for years to come.

The muscle car market has always went up and down through out the years but I can't remember it ever being like this.
What someone pays $100k for today would fetch about $20k in 2001.

My car is an original SS/RS but didn't have the original #'s motor. I still paid $29k last summer.
I remember when I was 16, I got a 67 chevelle for my B.day. my dad gave $250.00 for it. The motor was tired but it ran great. I sold it a year later to buy a BB 53 ford pickup.

I sure wish I still had that Chevelle.

Rich

I agree it's sad to see prices go out of reach for true car guys but if it ever stops and goes the other way it's going to be even worse. Think of all the folks that over extended to get that dream car and the impact if prices go .25 on the $1.00. Most of us accept like any hobby we derive pleasure from we typically will put more cash into it than we get out but with high base prices and even higher labor prices if you have to farm out some of the work you best be willing to hang onto what ever you have. Beyond a few rare cars it never should have turned into "the junk in my grandfathers barn is worth a mint now" but everything old has become a collector item to everyone anymore...

Actually, I was searching for a 67 GTO when I found my car. I always wanted a 1st gen camaro so I went ahead and picked it up.
Like you said, for most of us, it doesn't matter if we have more into the car then we will ever get out but for some it would be a nightmare if the market ever went south.

Rich

Well, I think we all need to take into consideration the amount of $ outlayed for parts and the untold many hours put into the degree of restoration that has been done before we conclude that something is overpriced. Even with a $45k finished price, when you consider the cost of the shell, all of the parts and side labor, a guy might be getting $2.50 per hour for his labor. Most people just don't realize all of the planning, research, communication, documentation and energy it takes to restore a car. That's why we pretty much all agree you are financially better off buying a done car than building one yourself unless you have the equipment, skills and time for a labor of love! Charlie 69 RS

Ever watch wrecks to Riches, the show focused on Barry Whites hot rod shop? He will take a beater he buys usually for under 5k, and drop 50-60k in parts/paint/etc... on the car and then sell it for around 70-80k. They did a car cently that he put 50k in and sold it on ebay for 80ish I believe, however he was just hoping for 65k.

I agree with the above poster, the 30-80k price tags seem like alot, but lay out all the reciepts and start putting a price tag on the hours put into the project and there may be a small return on investment, unless your name is foose, coddington, etc... If your lucky to have one of those names, sure you will get top dollar, but the avg builder here is just happy to get what they put into the project back at the end of the day.

Rich Allen...

I sent you a PM

i dont want to know how much i spent on my most recent restoration project. it would just be ammo for my lovely wife to throw at me every now and then....

i just look at it this way...how much did i spend? hmmm....well, the reciepts are nearly 2 inches thick!!!!

not including labor of course..........that was rest and relaxation.......without any drugs!

my kids are getting novas!!!!!!!! :)

6 cyl cars!!! im no fool!!!;)

When demand is high, prices will be high.
When demand is low, prices will be low.
Enough said.

Thank god I don't consider my labor as being worth money. I love the hobby and that's all it is, a labor of love.

wagonman, your a great dad buying your kids novas!

Rich

You still missed the fact that the guy is selling the car finished not in pieces... Last I heard a numbers '70 Z28 split bumper was approaching the $100k range.

Are u kidding me. A numbers matching 70 Z can go for a 100k these days. I had no idea. I dont follow second gens at all but figured 25-30 grand would be about right for a car like that. Damn!!

Are u kidding me. A numbers matching 70 Z can go for a 100k these days. I had no idea. I dont follow second gens at all but figured 25-30 grand would be about right for a car like that. Damn!!

I think that number is a little high. I just had two 70 Z28's for sale, one was the cleanest car I have ever had, but forest green and a automatic. Documented 67k mile car. Rare interior, Jerry Mac certified, and I got $32.5 for it, and that was tough to get.

The other one was one of less than 5 docuemnted 70 Z28 COPO's, Doc'd by Jerry, Medium Blue (comm called lucerine) blue interior and also a auto. I stopped the auction at 28k, as the green one sold (I only wanted to sell one or the other).

Both cars were 100% matching, born with numbers. Both had almost every original part (deep pulleys, distrib, etc) other than water pumps, starters, exh manifolds, and some other misc parts. Far more than most cars have these days.

I think that the market is a little soft on medium dollar cars right now, and there are some deals on the upper side.

"Decent" project cars are hard to come by though. Everyone wants the SS, Z or rare project cars for under 5k. There are very few at that price.

You can find a 6cyl 67 Camaro Project, or a 73 307 Camaro project in that range though. Many don't want them.

Rich

Here's a nice project for $3,200
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1348&sort=1&cat=15&page=1

Click on the yahoo page for pics.


And another for $3,500 (no pics though)
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1314&sort=1&cat=15&page=1

Just a few..........

Rich

Hey Rich I don't know about your cars but I heard a certain Bay Area Camaro parts vendor got about $50k for an unrestored all orig '70 Z/28 split bumper that needed a paint and interior restoration.

Was it an auto or 4 speed? Seems like everyone only wants 4 speeds? For that kind of price diff, I'd buy and auto and convert it!

Rich

OK,
This one just went up on sleez bay, BIN 45k, wrong tail lights, interior and bad description/pics. Let's see what it brings?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Z28-Camaro_W0QQitemZ120133753369QQihZ002QQcategoryZ616 1QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They may be wrong tail lights, but but at least they are tail lights for a 1970, the last 2 digits stamped in the tail light plastic id them as year correct parts.

Its a nice clean restoration, and someeone with the $$$ may see it and say WOW, and not even give that $$$ a second thought.

Not a Camaro but it's happening all over the hobby. I bought a 1972 Datsun 510 and paid $250.00 for it. I had always wanted one and thought well here is my chance so I plunked down the cash and took her home.

Well after visiting a few 510 sites all I have to say WOW!! Prices for these little cars are all over the place. Big dollar conversions with late model engines FI and turbos bring about 20K and some go up from there!! Average cars just fixed up and a few mods like wheels and some suspension stuff and and weber or SU carbs bring 5k all day long. If your looking for the Bluebird version that is right hand drive and was sold in Aus, and Japan and some places in Europe you better have have about 15K or more ready.

I find it very funny that a little Japanese car brings this kind of money. They were very popular when I was growing up in San Diego and they were all over the place in San Diego. They have a pretty good racing history also and race in vintage classes with our Camaros. All around very cool little cars with rear wheel drive and IRS rears. Who would have thought they would be worth so much now.

I sure would hate to be in the market for a Camaro these days!!

Joe

You think it's hard to find original/NOS parts for a 67/68/69 Z/28???
Try looking for 70 Z/28 parts. Good luck.

hehe Hey Joe, just seen your sig.... Picking on a poor lil Bobcat! My 1st car was a merc bobcat, however I was lucky that it came with a 6 cyl instead of the std 4 cyl.
Talk about surprising people, nothing like a lil pinto lookin bomb beatin your butt stop light to stop light!!

hehe Hey Joe, just seen your sig.... Picking on a poor lil Bobcat! My 1st car was a merc bobcat, however I was lucky that it came with a 6 cyl instead of the std 4 cyl.
Talk about surprising people, nothing like a lil pinto lookin bomb beatin your butt stop light to stop light!!

Look for Buck, Ram Air Dave, Chevy Thunder, Zuma, and some others when posting. We have an alternative movement going and razz each other all the time. Join the club and post up your Bobcat Turbo V6 story's!! :p

My Mom had one that was a wagon, V6, Orange, with a checkered type interior and wood grain on the outside!!! Man was that thing ever ugly, it looked like someone drank orange soda and vodka, got sick and threw up on disco Bob carrying a sheet of trailer home paneling.........It would burn some tires though!!

Ozero rust = Lots of cash
i was driving my self crazy looking for a 69 for under 7,500.00 unless it's a bare shell i could find alot of junk projects but nothing complete .
I'll keep working hard and save and sell a few cheap cars .

I have a rolling decent shape 74 Camaro w/o engine and tranie. It is decent shape for the age. Will be putting it on Classifieds soon. I promise I will not robb anyone. fair is fair . Would be cool to see a young fella get it and work on . Loosing that dedication in the younger generation, for the simple reason they can not get a start on a fun project because of the prices of sought after cars and trucks. my .02%

Cornbread
Man I love that nick name!! :yes:

Cornbread
Man I love that nick name!! :yes:

Cool huh !Got branded with that one 35 years ago when I worked in Arkansas.

he he he...
we have a guy at work we call "Baama"

you can only guess where he's from......great guy!!!!

Regardless of prices.. There are still good cars out there to be found, explored. Heck i seen one coming down the highway last week. A 67 was behind a dog house. Car didnt look to bad at all but i know for a fact it hasnt moved in atleast 5 years either. Im going to look at it this weekend actually.

Back when I was 17, I bought a 68 Chevelle SS 396 for $1000. It was in VG condition. Sold that, bought a '68 Camaro for the same amount. That turned into a project that I ending up selling. A couple of years later, I got a '69 Chevelle SS for-$1000. Sold it because I needed the money. It was beaters untill 2000. I got the bug again and found a '67 Camaro that had been inop. for at least 15 yrs. and beat. No engine or trans, lots of bad body work- needed everything. Paid $3500, have 10x that in it now. Wish I still had all those cars from the past!

I guess the point was, we all want the most "special" car we can get for the cheapest price. BUT, when we want to sell, we would like top dollar.

Sometimes we see one car sell for a super high price, but not others of the same pedigree. Sometimes, especially on Ebay, you see a car sell for a high price, then the same car for sale somewhere else which means that it was a shill bid. Sometimes you see people tear a car apart pubilcally on boards, and these same people attempt to bid/buy that car (this has happened to me).

IMHO, cars seem like they are at a three year low. There's a #'s 69 Trans Am for sale right now at the lowest I have ever seen them, and it's been sitting for several days now.

There are deals, but you have to look for em. Even earlier in this thread someone mentioned that they missed a deal by a few mins. You have to move quick, but smartly.

Rich
People do seem to pay more from dealers than individuals for some reason.

There are a few cars on the market right now I would love to have if I had the room, and a few I am still trying to sell......

As for the 70 Z28's, they are HARD to find in #'s condition. There are at least two on ebay that are flat price wise, and the one mentioned above with the BIN of 40K + is still sitting there and I see no major issues with it. We were speculating that mine did not go higher as it was an auto, but this one is a 4 speed and still sitting at 40K+ BIN.

It's all timing... Example, several years back I couldn't give away my '67 12bolt. Since then I have swapped the perches and removed the bracket for the radius rod. Everytime I tell this story I get PM's from someone wishing they had known. As well I've gotten decent offers for it as is if I still have the parts cut off it.

Point is it's a big world out there and the guys that would pay top dollar for '70 RS Z don't have the money together right now or are already deep into a project or something. Both '69 and '70 Z/28's are not the crown jewels in the big money car collections and that makes their value unstable. They are the cars the avg joe is after meaning they sell higher and quicker when the money is there...

Good Points.... Timing is everything, weather buying or selling.

you've been looking for 3 months ????? I was looking for 5 yrs !! at one time I said .. " Forget it I will never find one that I could afford " .. Thank god I found my 67 RS that I've always wanted .. did'nt even get close to double digits . Tagged / inspected and drove it away .. everything works.. hide a ways / horn / even the lighter . My lighter does'nt even work in my 2000 Z71 truck anymore !!!!!

I guess the point was, we all want the most "special" car we can get for the cheapest price. BUT, when we want to sell, we would like top dollar.

Sometimes we see one car sell for a super high price, but not others of the same pedigree. Sometimes, especially on Ebay, you see a car sell for a high price, then the same car for sale somewhere else which means that it was a shill bid. Sometimes you see people tear a car apart pubilcally on boards, and these same people attempt to bid/buy that car (this has happened to me).

IMHO, cars seem like they are at a three year low. There's a #'s 69 Trans Am for sale right now at the lowest I have ever seen them, and it's been sitting for several days now.

There are deals, but you have to look for em. Even earlier in this thread someone mentioned that they missed a deal by a few mins. You have to move quick, but smartly.

Rich
People do seem to pay more from dealers than individuals for some reason.

There are a few cars on the market right now I would love to have if I had the room, and a few I am still trying to sell......

As for the 70 Z28's, they are HARD to find in #'s condition. There are at least two on ebay that are flat price wise, and the one mentioned above with the BIN of 40K + is still sitting there and I see no major issues with it. We were speculating that mine did not go higher as it was an auto, but this one is a 4 speed and still sitting at 40K+ BIN.

I know we are on a Camaro site but I would like to add that I don't think we all limit ourselves to just Camaros.......well we all could but I will go out on limb here and say that "most" of us have some sort "other" type of car we like.

Mine happens to be Datsun 510's from 1969-1973. People might have to start branching out a little. I had two camaro's 2 years ago and had just sold my 69 SS396 Chevelle, that was "completely matching numbers" with build sheet and pro-tecto plate. I sold the other Camaro and got myself down to one project. For me I just can not afford to have 2 Camaros in my household. They are too expensive and worry me way to much and I go mad wanting to buy parts and work on them. The 68 I sold was a nice car but I love my 67 that was beater so I sold the 68 and I am working on the 67.

Now I bought a 72 Datsun 510. Yes a project, yes expensive for parts and yes it takes away from the 67's parts money but it provides that need for something to have around. It will also provide the need to have something special that like to drive around and have fun with. While the 67 is not going to be a beater anymore, the 510 will fill the beater void and full fill the fun factor with out worrying about nicks in paint and it will get 25-30 MPG to boot!!

I guess what I am saying is we are all gearheads. Camaros are getting more expensive so maybe go for a second choice as your second car and have as much fun with it as you do your Camaro. I am loving my little 510 and can hardly wait to have it running good and fixed up a just little bit with some sporty wheels and lowered a little. As the 510 community calls them in the project stage with primer, dents and rust but running, lowered and some tweaks here and there.....RATSUN!!

It would burn some tires though!!

Isnt that the only thing that matters?!?!? ;)

Well you all have made very good points of opinions and observations.

Now I bought a 72 Datsun 510.

A WHAT?!?!?! He, He, reminds me of a car I had a while after I sold my 70 Cuda....A Datsun B210:

http://www.psycocavr.com/images/b210_1973.jpg

:o :sad:

What about those 240Z's! Those were cool little cars.....

What about those 240Z's! Those were cool little cars.....

also was the beginning of the rice burner take over.uck!

As for the 70 Z28's, they are HARD to find in #'s condition. There are at least two on ebay that are flat price wise, and the one mentioned above with the BIN of 40K + is still sitting there and I see no major issues with it. We were speculating that mine did not go higher as it was an auto, but this one is a 4 speed and still sitting at 40K+ BIN.

Its amazing how many of the 2nd gens are missing their original drivetrain. If your into the them or have been looking to purchase one, you will realize how rare they really are. I dont think the market place realizes that fact and selling them right now may be too early. I think these are a good solid investment car to just have sitting in the stable and enjoy for the next couple of years. Phil

Paulm,

We had a Datsun F10 back in 1980. We used to call that car "the spaceship".
Haven't seen a picture of that in 20yrs!

Paulm,

We had a Datsun F10 back in 1980. We used to call that car "the spaceship".
Haven't seen a picture of that in 20yrs!

He, He, they were funny looking for sure!! I thrashed that little Datsun but never did manage to kill it! :D I removed the hatch and my buddies would pile in back there all hanging out of the car as we were driving down the road....


What about those 240Z's! Those were cool little cars.....

I thought so too! I see one every now and again and think about getting one to wrench on, but I have too many camaros.

A WHAT?!?!?! He, He, reminds me of a car I had a while after I sold my 70 Cuda....A Datsun B210:

http://www.psycocavr.com/images/b210_1973.jpg

:o :sad:

Not even close to the same in looks as a 510. In my opinion the 510 from 69-73 where the best looking cars Datsun has ever made and they are rear wheel drive to boot. They have an excellent Tran Am series history for thier class. I don't look at these as being the 1st Rice invasion, these cars were competing with BMW, Audi, MG, Truimph and other import sports type sedans of the time. This picture of a 510 has 1983 280ZX wheels and is lowered, it also has a Datsun BRE spoiler installed, other than that's it's all stock.
http://www.the510realm.com/gallery/albums/album56/bridge4.sized.jpg

The Vintage race version, look whos about to take advantage of that gettin out of shape behind him!!
http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/pictures/famous/bre510_08.jpg

I unfortunetly sold My 68 Camaro SS last month and wasn't paying attention to the price increases and probably sold it for about 6K less then it was worth according to what people are telling Me after I sold it. I was at a Car Show last Sat and saw a 68 Camaro bondo bucket a guy just bought that didn't come anywhere close to the one I sold and the guy told Me he paid more 5500 more then I sold mine for. Take Your time and search around there are very few bargains left out there but I am sure you'll find something You can afford it just takes time and luck.

Not even close to the same in looks.

Aw come on, from the front they look pretty similar! :D ;)

Funny how they went from pee shooter exhaust pipes to fart pipes today!!