Hi folks - Own a 67 RS, factory air car, 327/275, powerglide, 2.73 car. I have always been a keep it original sort of guy, but the rebuild on the 327 (bored 030, turned .010) small journal never was right (has one weak cylinder shows up on a leak down test), and today 8 years later is really laboring with plugs fouling. I was really going to use funds to work the suspension on the car, but today I decided I need a motor. I wil hold onto the 327, but I don't want the rebuild worry again so I am considering a crate. Also, if motor is coming out, am thinking of going THM350 instead of 'glide. Car will be a street car, mostly in-town, some highway, may even want to put factory air back in one day.

I'm trying to decide what crate really makes sense in a car running stock exhaust manifolds, a mild 2.73 rear, and one day may have the AC re-installed. I was looking at the 290, 330, and 355 (zz4) 350's. My take is I won't get the return and advertised performance with the zz4 if the thing can't breathe right (no headers), so I thought 330 HP at most made sense. ON the other hand I was looking at a 383, thinking the extra torque might be nice. Would that perk up a 2.73 rear? THe zz383 would probably choke with the stock manifolds, but what about this lower horsepower (and milder cam) HT383? Any other ideas along the line of 383 or should I just stay with the 330 hp 350 motor?

Any other thoughts on crate choice would be greatly appreciated.

Topspin in Maryland

Your thinking one end of the spectrum then looking at the other end of the spectrum....HMMM
stock gears, stock manifold, T350.....330HP 350 will be fine IMHO.
383 wont breath 290 would be a dog...others will chime in with input.

hmm....
Well in my bro's 73 camaro, it had no drivetrain and so we were stuck matching up a complete drive train. My bro didnt want to mess around with getting a block and doing a rebuild, etc... (he is impatient) he wanted to get it going quickly so the following is what we used.

zz383 is 425hp and 460 torque, a great deal imo for the the engine, we ordered it from our local chevy dealership quick and not bad price, around 5k I think.
You can check out tci transmissions, a 350 streetfighter & breakaway torque converter should more than handle your new engine.

As to using the stock exhaust manifolds.... they will steal some hp but they are not to bad, however if it was me and I was determined to use exhaust manifolds instead of headers.... I would look for a pair of z-28 exhaust manifolds, they do flow a bit better. Now I think of it I could swear I have a phr mag around here some place where they dropped a 383 they built into a 70's camaro and ran stock exhaust manifolds etc.... to keep it smog legal. /shrug

How much $$ do you want to spend. For $6200 you can get a motor like mine delivered (see sig), which included manifold, carb(reworked), MSD dist, and flex plate.

I'm with Harley. For what you want, the 330 350 fits best.

Harley - You are absolutely right. I am torn looking at the perfromance end of the newer higher HP motors, but then wanting to sorta hang onto my stock world with the manifolds and AC. Realize the two don't really mix.
For me, there is the snowball effect of changing everything that I could get into here, and realizing that I'm not a track guy, I'm trying to stay conservative.

350/330 does seem like the smart new option. Was hoping to find a new 383 pkg that was designed to run with manifolds (cam'd, carb'd more mildly), so I looked at the HT383. With the HT 383 listed as a truck motor though, I think the power curve will be shifted too much toward low RPM. I guess that's why GM built the zz383 !

Do some googling, you will find that the zz383 will not choke under stock exhaust manifolds, granted headers are the best solution. But plenty ppl build cars in CA. and often get stuck with emissions junk, manifolds, etc... Yes it hurts it some but you will end up with more power than the 330/350 will give you in the end.

Now if its cause of money your looking at the 330/350 then thats cool, but dont discount the zz383 because your afraid it will not breathe.

Do some googling, you will find that the zz383 will not choke under stock exhaust manifolds, granted headers are the best solution. But plenty ppl build cars in CA. and often get stuck with emissions junk, manifolds, etc... Yes it hurts it some but you will end up with more power than the 330/350 will give you in the end.

Now if its cause of money your looking at the 330/350 then thats cool, but dont discount the zz383 because your afraid it will not breathe.

That is exactly what I was thinking. The TQ of the 383 combined with freeway gears and a glide will really benefit from the extra stroke in a 383. You won't be rev'ing this engine high anyway so the manifolds won't hurt as much as you might think.

Harley, Try gmperformanceparts.com you can pick the "Build it" button and play with all of the GM Crate motors. The data on the Dyno is actual data from tests GM Perf ran on these motors, swap stuff around and turn on your speakers its very cool. I have a 330hp 350 in stock, price is $2600.00 freight around $300.00. hope this helps..

Tom
Brent Brown Chev
GM Performance Parts
Provo, UT

Jeff, Eric - It's not a don't have the mone thing, it's more of a will I get the bang for my buck. I will look at the zz383 more closely as you suggest, and try to find some folks running it with manifolds. Sounds like you guys are thinking the same way in regards to that extra torque with the 2.73 gears. I really apreciate all the inputs guys, it's good to be able to bang ideas around.

Brent - How complete is that 350/330? I'm guessing it is the long block, but no manifold, no carb?

I think HT383 all the way. With your stock converter and 2.73's the HT383 will pull great from any rpm. Then if you ever decided you wanted more a cam swap is all thats need for BIG HP gains. In a drag race the HT 383 would whoop the 350 330 with your converter/gear set up.

No problem I understand, I am just trying to prevent you from spending $$ and being really dissapointed in the 330/350. Its one of those deals that look good, but tie it in with your gear ratio and desire to keep some stock parts that can impede performande and it shows its short comings. I am guessing that the 330 will end up feeling like a 200/250hp setup with the gears and exhaust manifolds,and estimating around 250-300hp with that zz383 (wide hp range because I dunno all the variables).

/shrug

These are rough estimates just based on configurations seen in the past.

Another vote for the HT383 here. Nice basic high-torque lower cost setup and the base block is good stuff. If you decide to go "real fast" in the future, headers, heads, cam, etc. will all make the HT383 even more funner-er. But I'm a big fan of buying the base parts so that you leave yourself the option to upgrade later....

I guess another less expensive option would be one of the 383 vortec engines (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_761056_-1_10763) that Jegs offers, but I don't know how well they hold together... They also seem to have a 355 vortec engine (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_761054_-1_10763) I figure if Jegs (and Summit it appears) carry these guys engines, they're probably not too bad, but I have no personal experience....

LS2.... or the 383.

LS2.... or the 383. :D

TM - I'll call and look into those Jegs motors, "blueprint 383". Never heard of them before, but they list a better waranty so I imagine they are all new assemblys. thanks!

One word of warning check into warranties closely. A lot of them are contracted out so your "warranty" may be entirely in the hands of someone that does not care about your future business (World Products for example). GM crate engines are backed by GM.

I would also suggest a mild 383 and then ditch the power glide in favor of a TH350 for better gearing.

Good Luck :D

I would also suggest a mild 383 and then ditch the power glide in favor of a TH350 for better gearing.

Good Luck :D

That's pretty much how I started 6 or 7 years ago with my Camaro :D and look where it got me . . .

After the mild 383 and TH350 came steeper gears. Then a better converter. Then a solid cam. Then I broke a piston and bumped the compression ratio and went with more cam. Then I went roller cam and ported the heads, then I built a new 410" motor and built new headers and exhaust . . . and on it goes :D

..and on it goes..as Eric says. Well, you know, why should I fight it then, sounds like Eric is having fun. Mild 383 is clearly getting more votes here than the 350/330.

My vote is for the 383. It will make more hp/torque at a lower rpm. A smaller engine needs to turn more rpm to make the same power as a larger engine. More rpm is restricted by the stock manifolds and the high gear so you would benefit from an engine with a lower torque range.

That's pretty much how I started 6 or 7 years ago with my Camaro :D and look where it got me . . .

After the mild 383 and TH350 came steeper gears. Then a better converter. Then a solid cam. Then I broke a piston and bumped the compression ratio and went with more cam. Then I went roller cam and ported the heads, then I built a new 410" motor and built new headers and exhaust . . . and on it goes :D

You got that right Eric! :thumbsup: Ain't it fun? :D

You will never be happy with that rearend with any of the above motors imho.

HogDaddy - You may be right in the end and I share that same concern. The thing is, if these cars continue to rise in price and the "all original" thing becomes even more important down the road than it is today, I'd be hard pressed to ever re-install the 'glide for any highway driving, if I change the rear to 355's or some such. As for right now though, and my driving enjoyment.....I think you're right. So, I do have an open mind when selecting motor/trans to thinking the rear may well get changed as well.

Are'nt ya glad I kept on about the 383, when you were being lured to the 330/350?

You bet Jeff....that's what this forum is all about...polling peoples ideas.

I purchased the ZZ383 and have been very pleased. It has much better torque then other 350s that I've built in the past and puts the hp and torque in a very streetable/useable RPM range. It sounds like you are having an internal battle between the itch for more power and the philosophy of keeping it stock. Since you are willing to change some things - I'd say go with the most power you can reasonably put into a reliable street car which would be the ZZ383 among the options your considering. You won't regret getting more hp and even if the manifolds present a problem (which will likely not be too bad) then the worse case scenario is you put those headers on there and be even happier with the performance. However, do your reserach and make sure the manifolds will even work with the D-port fast-burn heads as you may not have a choice but to change them. What the heck - your obviously not going for 100% original so why draw the line with headers. Either way your spending between $4 - 6k so feel good about your decision as ideally you don't want to regret and have to spend more money and time later to correct it. :beers:

I had my Fastburn 385/Hot Cam combo in my car for awhile with manifolds, a T350 and 3.08's and it ran pretty darn well. That is 350CID. I could smoke the tires from here to next week. The ZZ383 should easily outrun it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/gort69/DSCN0918.jpg

Then, as Eric says, the bug hit, and I added headers, 3.73's, a 2004R, bore and stroke, more cam, ported heads, etc., etc and I'm still not done. It's part of the fun.

If you are dead set on keeping the 2.73 gears, consider a nice 700R4. The 3.00ish low gear will REALLY wake it up.

[Either way your spending between $4 - 6k so feel good about your decision as ideally you don't want to regret and have to spend more money and time later to correct it. :beers:[/quote]

Wait, I'm sorry - take what I said with a grain of salt - spending more money and time is easily 1/2 the fun of this car hobby lifestyle. If my car always ran perfect and the way I wanted it to, I would lose interest and have to buy another car in bad condition so I would have someting to keep me interested & entertained.
:yes:

If your worried about keeping the cars value then you can do a couple things;
If your car is a numbers matching car, I would bag up your original trans, rear and engine and store them away. Years later, you can rebuild and restore those original parts.

If your car is not numbers matching, then it makes no difference. Spend some money and build yourself a car with some hp that will satisfy you the first time.

Obviously your looking at the higher powered motors. Have someone build you an engine and trans that brings real excitement.

You don't need a TT 1000hp car, do your research before you buy. I have bought so much stuff just to sell it back on ebay because I wanted more, more more more......... :hurray::hurray::hurray:

OMG it's a sickness.

Rich