I have started removeing the rear wheel wells to get ready for a compltete trunk rebuild. I am looking for any tips on what i should look for and what would be the best way to reinstall so of this.
My car is a 67 Camaro and is the first car I have done trunk and floors to.
I am replacing the inner and outer wheel wells, the shock towers,the tunck pan and extentions and the sides.
I plan on removing it all first so I can sit inside the trunk area to do the wells first as they look to be the hardest to do.
As for extra sheet metal I will need to bend to fix little areas,is 20 gage the size I need?
Thanks for you help and inside thoughts on this.
Matt

------------------
67 Camaro 350 4sp pdb
building it my way!!
jam2conklin@charter.net

After 26 years of 1st Gens, 15 of it in a Camaro business my advice to you is find a better car.

I saw your other posting about the rusted spring mounts. You can't possibly believe backyard repairs in these critical areas is going to come anywhere close to original strength and structural integrity.

I was at SC-Indy this month. There were several solid restorable Southern/Western Camaros for sale, reasonably priced. You would be far better investing your
enthusiasm and cash in a Camaro that is structurally sound.

I tend to agree with William,.Unless you could consider the back half/pro street thing, then you should indeed find another specimen

I don't agree.I have been in the collision industry for 12 years and in a restoration shop now.I have seen new vehicles dismantled beyond belief and put back together under the close watch of insurance companies and guys from organizations like I-Car that have to be as structurely sound as when new.If you weld everything back together the way it came apart it should be fine.Shock towers,trunk floor,and wheelhouse are very common repairs on first gens.Anyone who knows anything about them would know that.And if a guy wants to replace them,go for it,why **** on his parade and tell him to scrap his car?

I have to agree with William and stmoore. To the average person, rebuilding the entire back end of the unibody would be a difficult task. If a person is dead set on doing it, it can be done with enough aggravation and work, but in the end, the solid factory car will almost always be better. I am putting a new tailpan and quarter on my camaro now, and I would hate to have to go any farther than that. Just another opinion.

Mr Ochrisl, mwc67 is on a bulletin board asking for advice from people who have been there. This is what has been provided; nobody is **** on his pararde. Anybody who is sharp enough to ask for advice realizes they may not like what they hear. Your advice is biased; you're in the business. When we had a Camaro business we regularly advised our customers not to fix rust belt cars. And we were in Wisconsin. We brought a few back from CA and people began to listen. In our years I'll bet we bought and parted out a dozen abandoned resorations from people that gave up and lost thousands on them.

In a previous post he speaks of welding angle iron and steel plate to the rockers in order to re-mount the rusted out spring perches. Does this sound like a factory approved repair? You have a professional shop with the latest equipment; he is in his garage.

Just for grins, what would you charge for all this work?

"Anyone who knows anything about them would know that." Give me a break!

Whooe whooe boys!, alittle heat in the kitchen is fine, but when your sitting on the burnner it tends to leave round rings! lol!.. hehe.. Anyway I do have to agree with William, I would not want to take this job into my own hands in my garage! Maby putting in a new trunk pan, but not anything past that!. I am currently restoring a 69 Z 28, and fortunelty I got mine down in Alabama where it had hardly no rust. If the car is that bad, scrap it out before you put money in it.. You can find some dumb *** to buy it for 5 grand, then he will try to take on what your trying to do, then he will sell it! lol.. 2000 people will own that car before it gets done! lol...

good point William..

Hey mwc67, Looks like everone forgot your origional question. I won't get involved in the debate. My advise is do do a piece at a time and not rip it all out. Remember the body is the frame. The more intact you keep it the less flex you will get.

------------------
1969 Camaro 350 & 1969 Impala SS 427/ 4-speed (restored)

I apologize if I ruffled some feathers.

As I stated far too many times I watched people begin restorations on rust buckets. How the story ends is easy to predict since there are only two conclusions. One, the owner throws in the towel after spending a few thousand. There is always more rust or damage than can be seen. Two, the owner soldiers on and ends up with $30-$40k in a welded-up, average car not worth half the investment. And a really PO'd wife. Sooner or later they all get sold. One of our customers lost $18k on a '70 Z28.

Saw these scenarios a dozen times over the years.

The exception: Truly rare, documented cars like COPOs Yenkos, some Z/28s.

Don't get me started on restoration shops.

All the dogs out there have bit me once. If I can save someone some grief I feel a duty to do so. mwc67 will do as he desires. But now he knows the downside.

Oh great... I just spent 2 years on a car that ya'll consider scrap metal. Great.

Don't feel bad HwyStarJoe. I've spent the past year on junk then too. New roof skin,quarter, tailpan, trunk, driver side floor....should I keep going?



------------------


Racer#00

Plain Jane 67
76 Trans Am Stock Car
74 Z28 (Basket case)

I guess unless ya have a documented Z or a mint Yenko or something, ya might as well just sell it for junk. Gee, I wish I had a bottomless wallet like some people so I could back-half my junker. And I'll cancel the rocker I have coming too...


[This message has been edited by HwyStarJoe (edited 07-30-2001).]

You northeastern car guys must be used to rebuilding rusty cars. I have read a lot of posts from people that have had to replace floorpans, both quarters, etc... and have never understood why someone would spend the time and $$ to do it.

I guess we just take rust free cars for granted down here. Most people down here won't touch a car that needs that much work.

Well I know from personal experience that a good unrestored rust free car will not be had anywhere in the snow belt. Unless you were lucky enough to find something that was garage kept, or brought in from somewhere down south or out west.

HwyStarJoe, I'm sure I've seen your car in pics on previous posts. You've put a lot of time and effort into it, and it looks awesome!!

The thing that everyone should remember is 1st, we are dealing with 30 year old cars. 2nd, we do what we can with what we have available. If all you can find is a rusty
P.O.S. to start off with, and don't have the money and time available to do a country wide search for something better, then work with what you got. Or would you rather have them crushed?



------------------


Racer#00

Plain Jane 67
76 Trans Am Stock Car
74 Z28 (Basket case)

I would like to thank everyone who gave me a positive response. I never had intentions of scraping MY car. There aren't that many 67 Camaros left to just give up on. I have had my eye on this car for 16 years and finaly got it. It you want to trash a car because it needs some fixen go ahead but you will wish you didn't.
I am going to take my time to make sure it is done to the best of my ability. When it is all done I can say I did it with some input of a few people I have never met before that wanted to help out a 67 Camaro.
When it is all done I will let you know and will send pictures to anyone who wants to look at a car that was call not worth fixing.
Thanks again to the car lovers, the rest of ya can go scrap your cars if thier rusty.Matt.
P.S. feel free to email me with any thoughts about this or ideas.....

------------------
67 Camaro 350 4sp pdb
building it my way!!
jam2conklin@charter.net

[This message has been edited by mwc67 (edited 07-30-2001).]

Our comments weren't meant to belittle anyones projects...we are just speaking from experience that it is much better to start with a fairly solid car than a rust bucket. I have put 2 rear floorpans in my car, and am in the process of putting a rear quarter, a trunk dropoff and a tail panel...and I can tell you from experience, this type of work is not easy. If you have welding experience, and some basic bodyworking knowledge, you can do this, just be prepared to have lots of hours and lots of money in a car that has to have that much sheetmetal. Next time I will not respond to a message such as this, if it is not going to be looked upon as constructive criticism.

I just thought i would drop a link to some pictures of my car,notice the BACKYARD in the photos?Most of it was done there,and in my GARAGE, except the painting.I guess i wasted my money though because its not a copo or Yenko or Z-28.And i have under 10k in it,not 30-40k. http://members.spree.com/entertainment/ochrisl/chris'68_camaro2.htm

------------------
68 camaro,hugger orange ,white stripes.327 4 speed. http://members.spree.com/entertainment/ochrisl/

[This message has been edited by ochrisl (edited 07-30-2001).]

I apologize if I sounded a little put-off. If anyone thinks I over-reacted, you're right. But y'all hit a nerve for sure.

I absolutely agree about body/frame work being tough. There's been times I wish I'd kept the $500 I paid for this car and spent it on a decent Chevelle instead. (yes... $500) It ain't no Z, it ain't no SS. But it IS a 1st Generation Camaro! Rust or no rust. Hey, if it wasn't for the Northeast and our rusty heaps, who would keep the aftermarket for sheetmetal in business?

Racer#00, the only reason it looks the way it does today is because of the extensive de-rustifying with replacement body panels, shock towers and frame rails.

I would be happy with constuctive criticism but telling me to get another car or it won't be any good isn't contructive criticism. It is destructive criticism!
I asked for help not to be told it wasn't worth fixing. If you haven't figured it out yet this web sight is about building cars. Yes some times it is going to happen that a car is better off being laid to rest but most of the time you can put it back together. thats why companies are making parts for our cars, to keep whats left running.
Yes I know this is going to be far from easy but I am not a quiter.
And as far as my repair for the spring perches it went great and will be a mod i would do again if needed. Its not a factory aproved repair and I did it in my garage but so do hundreds of thousand of other people every week in their garages.
How do big name car builders get started? They just don't walk up to a building ang become famous they started in their garage.

To any one else who is thinking of starting a repair like this I would say to still ask these people for help because they do know alot but don't get rid of your car because it has some rust.
My car was a complete factory car but foe afermarket rims. Yes a plain jane 6cyl but all there and something to start with. It will be how I want my 67 Camaro to be when I am done. And I will have done it with the help of a few of the people here that want to keep 1stgen Camaros on the road.
Plus I had a guy who builds prostreet cars look at the perches and he said they will probbly be better than factory and last longer to.
Thanks for the motovation to get this going and keep the wheels rolling.......

------------------
67 Camaro 350 4sp pdb
building it my way!!
jam2conklin@charter.net

I don't recall you asking any questions about your spring perches...was this a different post?

I dont wanna **** any purests off, but I bought a NICE 69 SS and I am doing the backhalf with full cage and 477 BBC on NOS. But I am also restoring it at the same time, in the I am completely installing a RS front end with working headlights (most backhalf cars with RS headlights dont work), I have ran my numbers and found the car orginaly had a vinyl top, so it gets one again. It was med. blue so that is the color it will be painted.

When I did my trunk floor I bought a parts car and cut the rear of it off with a sawzall, trimmed off what I didn't need and had the rest dipped to clean the rust. This avoided a LOT of the cutting, fitting and welding. You may be able to have a junkyard cut out the rear section with the pieces you need.


TTFN
Mat

MCW,

I think you are overreacting now. You asked for people's insights and you got them. Don't get mad when some people tell you, from experience, not to do what you are trying to do. They have been there and done that. You are clearly just getting started on your car.

I'm not one of those people think that the value of the car after the restoration determines whether it should be restored. That's BS. I started with a base model V8 and have spent way more money than I would get back if I sold it.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't fix up rusty cars. However, MOST people would prefer to restore a car with as little rust as possible. My hat's off to those guys that rebuild the back half of their cars. It's just not something I personally want to do.



------------------
Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 4/16/01 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

Let us know when one someone sees one of those dime a dozen rust free cars that you tell us about go up for sale.

I was not going to take sides but since this is such a hot topic..... I bought my current Camaro in 1987 for $1200, drove it for 5 years, let it rust in the driveway for 3 years, then let it rust in the garage until July 2000. My son showed some interest so we tore it apart. So far we have inner wheel wells front and rear, new floor pans, new fenders, new cowl hood,new (full) rockerpanels and new quarter panels. By dealing at Carlisle we have $1800 in new metal, so $3000 total since 1987. A rusted out hulk in this area is worth more than $3000 (saw one at Carlisle last week for $3650). With 3 kids and a big mortgage I could never aford a clean southern car. So as hard as it is to fix I don't think I will scrap it. Fixing a rusty car does not have to cost big $$$. I figure to have $6000 total in it by the time I am done and drive a virtually new first gen. Some one made the point that a factory car is more solid. No way after I am done welding. Where are all the rust free southern cars anyway?? I never see them advertised. I think they are a myth.

------------------
1969 Camaro 350 & 1969 Impala SS 427/ 4-speed (restored)

[This message has been edited by DanBnis (edited 07-31-2001).]

ochrisl: amen I have thought the same thing, rust free cars are not exactly falling out of trees here in Florida especially at a give away price. If they are could someone tell me where the forest is? Wes

This guy always has a load of 69 Camaros that are usually very solid for around $5000-6000.
www.jakesforgottenpast.com (http://www.jakesforgottenpast.com)

When we say solid (at least in the Kentucky area) it means the floorpans are reasonably solid (may require one or two small pans) the trunk are is good, but it may have to have some quarter work. Solid cars can be found in this area for around $2000-$6000 (depends on if they are driveable or not) but may require quarter work, which is a far cry from having to totally rebuild the whole rear unibody. No one on here said that a rusty car could not be welded up, just that it is often more cost efficient to buy a reasonably solid car in the first place. You can't just count the cost of the pieces you buy, you really have to count your time too, even if it is what you enjoy doing with your free time. I've done enough body work on my car to see that what I (and others) are saying is true. My car is an undocumented original Z28/RS, which isn't worth that much more than any other first gen, but if it didn't have centimental value to me, I definitely would have looked for a little better car to start with. I have replaced the 2 rear floorpans, driver side quarter, a trunk dropoff, and a tailpanel, and it has been a MAJOR amount of work, as I am taking my time and doing it as close to factory specs as possible. NOS quarters alone usually go for over $1000.00, so it adds up very quickly. You can always use repo, but in most cases it will not be as good as it was originally. Yes rusty cars can be rebuilt, yes its a good thing that they are, no one wants to see a first gen bite the dust, and yes, it will cost more to fix a rusty car, and in a lot of cases, it won't be as good as it was when it left the factory. Sorry if you don't like this, buy most of it is fact, and some of it is my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Gambitt (edited 07-31-2001).]

To each his own. I don't count my time because it is something I want to do. I would rather be in the garage than in front of a TV yelling at some sport event. If you count my time at a shop rate yeah it is a ton of money but it is not real and I don't have it and can't get it so I won't be scrapping my rusty car.

------------------
1969 Camaro 350 & 1969 Impala SS 427/ 4-speed (restored)