I just got a 283 crank, rods and looking for a small journal 327 block. My next camaro will have a 302 in it. but i need a little help first. I've never see 302 piston listed in the catalogs where is the best place to get them. next is the cam go with the 30-30 or something newer. The heads i want to stay as stock looking possible, but i was thinking about vortec's, (11.5 compression on pump gas maybe?) any ideas, rember this is just "fun" project under 4000 bog no problem(that's why they make 4.88's)

I have a .030 over 327 block, '67 date in my shop, possibly needs honed.Also the 30/30 cam is available in blueprint grinds from Crane, Lunati, and others if you want the same style cam for it.Also several correct aluminum intakes for Z's, and some '69 Z heads.Email for more info.You didn't post where you were located, I'm in North Georgia.

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And now for the bad news....there's only about 2 pistons available for the 302, and they're both forged, and both are around $500+ a set.
Why a 302?? If you're gonna drive it every day, you'll be MUCH happier with a 327 or 350.
My advice if you do build a 302 is to go with some good small port aluminum heads like Edelbrocks, and a smaller than the 30-30 cam, something like a CC 280H or maybe the 274, to try to pump up the bottom end.
Stock 302's had NO low end torque and really, IMHO, no fun to drive around town.
They would run like a banshee from 4000-8000 rpm however.
Oh, yeah...I don't think the Vortecs will clear the domes on the available pistons.

[This message has been edited by Dave Birdwell (edited 02-08-2000).]

Just curious, why a 302? If you are building a replica Camaro, nobody's gonna know which crank and pistons are in the engine. If its for fun and performance, theres better engines to be had for much less money. I am building a 67 Z/28 replica and I gave up real soon on trying to build a 302. The cost of original type parts will kill you.

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Jeff Bradway - my resto page: http://67camaro.virtualave.net

i just wanted to say that i had a 302 with a 4-speed in my 68 camaro and i was a lot happier with my 327. sure the 302 screamed at high rpm's and it sounded wild at the stop light, due to the 302 off road cam, but, it was not a street engine. it loaded up a lot and i had to take it out a run it to clean it out, which i didn't mind, but then again, i had a friend with a 1940 coupe that had a 302 in it and i worked fine for him. but then again, that car didn't come out much. but like i said, i traded my 327 for this 302 and that was a big mistake, big mistake.
just my .02 cents.
later,
bruce69camaro

I think you are getting great advice. Why not build an LT-1 spec 350 and just put the 302 - 290 HP decal on the air cleaner. NO ONE can tell the internals and you will be a LOT happier with the driveablility and power...and likely save money on your build up. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me. The golden rule of cars "there's no substitute for cubic inches" A built LT-1 will dust a 302 any day.


[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 02-09-2000).]

Yeah , and add a good lopey idle cam to it, and most people won't know the difference. The 302 would be nice from a "Original style" point of view, but you will be more happy with a more streetable, torque engine. But, I'll still sell you this block if your interested, or a ' 70 350 block sitting right beside it.I can even put you in a 350/345hp. aluminum headed ZZ2 crate engine that's fresh, but it won't look original if that's what your after.

If you want a 302 build a 302! I don't know were these guys are getting $500 FOR A set of pistons.I paid the same for mine as I would have paid for 350 pistons. You have to ask your machine shop or piston manufactuer though because thet are not widely advertised.

Call Jeg's or summit and see how much TRW # 2210A is, if it's still available.I bet it's more than $200 for a set.Then there's Ross, J & E, Manley, and some others, but I guarantee( do your best Justin Wilson impersonation) http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif they will be atleast $500 a set!

[This message has been edited by Doug Garland (edited 02-09-2000).]

I now have 68 ss396 with a 450 horse and 500 t 454 so i know all about no replacement for displacement, but you ever riden a 250r or banshee 4-wheeler with a set of high rev pipes they have no torque but what a rush!!! That's what a 302 feels like sure a 350 is cheaper and a bbc will burn the tires at will but it's not the same. As for a 350 in a light car out running a simular built 302 maybe but the fun factor can not be match. and that's what it's all about have fun

302 pistons are expensive. I think the ones you get now are 12-1 comp. and have to be shaved down. A 350 built up is a all around better engine. I have several Z28's, 69-70. Stock 69 Z's are fun but don't ever get in a race with anyone. You could build a LT1 350 like in a 70 Z and have a great engine. I also had a Banshee and it was faster and more fun than a 69 Z. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

Summit has 302 pistons(TRW) for $347.12

[This message has been edited by snakedr (edited 02-23-2000).]

I built a real DZ 302 for a guy about 3 years ago and I got most of the parts from GM. It was expensive, but they had the pistons, cam and most of the other parts. He wanted to restore the car as corect as posible, thats why the GM parts.

I didn't respond to this the first time I went into this post but I've been inspired by a few of the replies. To build a 67-68-69 Z/28 "replica" and capture the true essence of that 302 is pure extasy. A buddy of mine had a 69 ZEE (circa 1978) and just the sound of that engine with that "idle", the solid lifters clattering away, the exhaust emiting that lumpy "fast" idle, the M22, the 12 bolt posi with 4.11's, it's the whole package! The way that front end shot up when he unleashed it! If you want to capture that, go ahead and build it and never mind about "replacement for displacement" (which has it's obvious merits,for certain set ups). In this era you don't, or need to, race with it, it's the "package" the "essence" of that era that stands out with building a first generation, Z/28 inspired 302, that you want to capture. And it was no slouch in the 1/4 mile,I've got magazine write ups (of that era) that had this car in the high 13's. I don't know if I've explained myself here, or just rambling but my inspiration goes back to that time, (I guess i'm showing my age), and don't forget about that Muscle Car Review (last year?)feature on a GM Restoration of a red '67 Z/28 that used the high tech modern LT1 that was stroked to 3.00". GM felt the same way about restoring it the way it was. It just wouldn't be the same with a 350 in it.

sorry for going on...
Joe B

I personally can vouch for the torque of the 302cid as my brother and I built one last year and the torque was unbelievable. Our engine powered a heavy 55 Bel Air and toted it well. Our cam selection was a second generation 302 (solid lift)design. As for the pistons, they will run bout the same price as any GOOD aftermarket pistons. As for the cylinder heads. I would suggest a pair of good flowing 350 heads- 3973487, 3973487X, or 3998993 each of which carry the 75/76 cc chambers. These heads in my opinion are better than the "HUMPED" because of the expense in putting hard seats and acessery holes needed in order to run "HUMPS". Also keep in mind that you are dealing with a small journal engine. Those cranks have a potentail to snap with higher CR's "ours was a large" so we were able to run CR of 14:1 and better. It would be wise to keep your CR below 11.5 which can be established with the various domes that are available. "I say go for it". GOOD LUCK

Hope any of this is a help.



[This message has been edited by 71 Camairo (edited 02-23-2000).]

I'm not sure what is so difficult about driving a 302 daily? I have the original 302 in my 69 Z/28 and I drive it almost every day with no problems. Granted, the low end torque leaves a lot to be desired, but being able to rev to 6800 before having to shift makes light to light runs more interesting.
As far as piston kits go, all of the ones that I researched, including the ones that I bought were high compression. Too high to run on pump gas. So you should have the pistons fly cut to reduce compression. I run 10:1 compression and 12.41@110MPH in the quarter.

i just found a small 327 block, so the 302 project will start this week. what about heads, z28_pilot what are you running and are you running the stock cam? Thinking about using a set of 041's that i have, but the vortec are seem really nice, do they flow will on the top end? one more thing one the vortec's how do they look? they look stock any give away they are late models

SS396,
Glad to hear you are going to build it!
I think the Vortec Heads floe much better from what I've seen in magazine articles but they will require a specific intake. I think Edelbrock make one compatable.

By the way I tried to email some info to you but I get an undeliverable message.

You guys are confusin' me! Since this discussion is not concerned with originality, what's a piston? It's a round chunk of alluminum with a diameter, pin (compression) height, ring grooves, and dome/valve relief configuration. Wouldn't any 4" bore Chevy use the same slug, as long as the configuration fit? Why would we care what engine size the catalog said?

It is to my understanding that the VORTECS are designed for fuel injection and as a result of using a carb, fuel seperation may be experienced. Besides being of such thin casting I really dont think they will hold up under the higher CR. just a little food for thought.

Jim,

All (except 400) SBC use a 5.700" connecting rod, and all SBC have the same deck height. Therefore, with a different stroke, the compression height (distance between centerline of wristpin and top of piston) will be different for different stroke engines. Even though the 302, 327, and 350 all have a 4.00" bore, the strokes are 3.0", 3.25", and 3.48" respectively. With the same connecting rod lenght, then, each of these motors must use a different piston.

Another thing to consider is that a 302 11:1 piston must have a larger dome than a 350 11:1 piston. This is because the smaller motors have a smaller volume of air at BDC, and must compress the air into a tighter space for the same compression ratio. The only way to make the space at TDC smaller is to make the head chamber smaller or make the dome bigger, and since all 70-earlier heads were 64cc, the dome is made bigger. Hope this helps. Take care.

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69 SSRS Frame-off Resto
81 Z-28 377ci Drag Car

69SSRS: All '70 down heads aren't 64cc. They range from 58cc up to 74cc. These aren't carved in stone numbers either, you will have to cc. them yourself to get an accurate chamber volume.

I've got a set of Vortecs in the garage, and I guarantee they won't clear the domes on the 302 pistons. They also have center-hold down valve cover mounts, so you have either limited valve cover choices, or buy expensive adapters to run a nice original style cover. A better choice, IMHO, is to run some 70 CC Edelbrock RPM aluminum heads. They take a standard piston dome and intake, the valve covers will fit, and will put the CR down to about 10.5:1
You could even paint them orange if you wanted to.

The 283 crank is not designed for a 4" piston. You will spend a couple of hundred dollars more when you go to balance the crank. You will need to have heavy metal added to the counterweights. Also I assume you will buy aftermarket rods for the engine. Because they are cheaper than reworking the stock 283 rods which only have 5/16" bolts. The rods will add to the weight.

When you get done you will have an engine that develops about 40 horsepower and 40 foot lbs less than a similar 350 and you will have spent more money.
But, it will sound nice and rev like there is no tomorrow....

In my post I mentioned that Muscle Car Review had a article on a GM Performance/Restoration
Parts '67 Z/28. Two corrections, it was actually September 1998 and the powerplant was an GEN 2 LT4. Here's a paragraph from that spread: A vintage Z/28 wouldn't be a Z without the famed 302 engine and GM engineers didn't fret that there was no '90's version. A GEN 2 LT4 block was fitted with a 3.00" stroke crank from the 265ci "4300" V8 engine (used in Caprice, Buick Roadmaster etc)and a set of 5.565" connecting rods from a early 400 small block. They combined this with forged 11.1 pistons and the result is a "destroked" LT4 4.000 x 3.000" bore and stroke (411hp) 302ci.
I know our pocket's aren't anywhere near as deep as GM's for a "High Tech Classic" project like this, but I thought I'd correct my errors.