I plan to bite the bullet and convert my 69' from MANUAL to PS for my next project. I've read almost all the sticky threads and have concluded the following list is what I need to perform this task:

1. PS Pump (best price/place to get one?)
2. Rag Joint 3/4"x30"
3. Cardone Box #276550
4. Coupler #7826542
5. Bolt # 7807271 (since I have no existing PS)
6. Moog K6582 Long Pitman Arm
7. Pressure & Return Lines #40620 & #40630 (both from Lee mfg)
8. Pulley (I have a single groove crank pulley)
9. Belt
10. Motor mount hardware (exactly what?)
11. Something about inserts for the hoses from Lee? Metric conversion or something?

A. What have I missed or duplicated or...whatever?

B. Where will the pump/reservoir mount? Is there a bolt hole(s) on my motor...where, etc?

C. Is there one single place that's best to buy all of this from? If not, how would you break it up?

I appreciate any help, guys. I've never done anything like this before, but after getting help here to install my 1st transmission....I think I can do this with a little help from my friends here.

The third gen box has metric bubble flare fittings, and the stock 69 hoses have SAE 45 degree flares. The Lee inserts allow you to use the 69 hoses on the third gen box. I'd buy the "kit" from Lee, which includes the inserts and the correct ragjoint.

I'd buy the box from your favorite local parts house that carries them. I hate dealing with mail order, but you could save a buck or two if you buy it online. I'd also buy the hoses from NAPA - they are excellent quality. Same with the pitman arm.

I'd get the rest of the stuff repro from Rick's or another repro house. You'll need the PS pump brackets (small block or big block?). There are two brackets that mount the pump, and it mounts low on the driver's side. There is a boss on the water pump that the bracketry pivots on, and the other bracket uses the front exhaust manifold bolt and the front motor mount bolt. assuming you have a 69 with a long pump all of your mounting points are there.

You might check locally for a pump, but they often come w/o the reservoir.

The third gen box has metric bubble flare fittings, and the stock 69 hoses have SAE 45 degree flares. The Lee inserts allow you to use the 69 hoses on the third gen box. I'd buy the "kit" from Lee, which includes the inserts and the correct ragjoint.

I recall reading that now (it all kinda blends together after reading so many threads :)). So the kit from Lee is basically for the ragjoint, hoses, couplings and inserts?

I'd buy the box from your favorite local parts house that carries them. I hate dealing with mail order, but you could save a buck or two if you buy it online. I'd also buy the hoses from NAPA - they are excellent quality. Same with the pitman arm.

If it's not significantly different, I'll buy it local. But I'll check around first. Cool.

I'd get the rest of the stuff repro from Rick's or another repro house. You'll need the PS pump brackets (small block or big block?). There are two brackets that mount the pump, and it mounts low on the driver's side. There is a boss on the water pump that the bracketry pivots on, and the other bracket uses the front exhaust manifold bolt and the front motor mount bolt. assuming you have a 69 with a long pump all of your mounting points are there.

You might check locally for a pump, but they often come w/o the reservoir.

I have a small block (350). So, you're advocating I get the pulley, belt, mounts/hardware from Rick's? I do have to replace my crank pulley with a two groove pulley, right? And they'll know how far out & wide the grooves will be (probably a stupid Q) on the new pulley to align with my alt & water pump pulleys? Thanks, Al. This is something that I'll probably buy all the parts for and get to actually doing it in the coming weeks.

The hoses aren't included in the Lee kit, just the inserts and the ragjoint. The inserts are small and just press into the hose fittings in the box.

Just get a crank pulley and PS pump pulley for a 69 Camaro 350. All should be good. You can buy the PS belt locally.

I plan to bite the bullet and convert my 69' from MANUAL to PS for my next project. I've read almost all the sticky threads and have concluded the following list is what I need to perform this task:

1. PS Pump (best price/place to get one?) Rick's or local
2. Rag Joint 3/4"x30" Lee mfg. along w/ inserts
3. Cardone Box #276550 Local
4. Coupler #7826542 Not sure what this is - never converted from manual
5. Bolt # 7807271 (since I have no existing PS) Possibly from Lee
6. Moog K6582 Long Pitman Arm NAPA
7. Pressure & Return Lines #40620 & #40630 (both from Lee mfg) NAPA
8. Pulley (I have a single groove crank pulley)Rick's - also PS pulley
9. Belt NAPA
10. Motor mount hardware (exactly what?) 2PS brackets - SB - Rick's
11. Something about inserts for the hoses from Lee? Metric conversion or something?



This is how I'd do it - others may disagree.

There is also a hose bracket, for lack of a better term, kinda like the one that holds your heater hoses to the pass side fender. It attaches to the driver's side frame stand and the PS hoses go through it. Not absolutely necessary, but nice. There is also another small bracket that attaches at one of the front bolts on the steering box cover that guides the PS pressure hose. Again, not absoltely necessary, but nice. Check the Rick's catalog for these 2 items.

The hoses aren't included in the Lee kit, just the inserts and the ragjoint. The inserts are small and just press into the hose fittings in the box.

Just get a crank pulley and PS pump pulley for a 69 Camaro 350. All should be good. You can buy the PS belt locally.

Cool. Thanks again, Al. This is all preliminary research, but I'll likely start purchasing in a matter of a few days. I'm quite sure I'll have more questions later. After reading all those darn threads, it seems there are many little snags that occur. And I know I'll be asking about "castor"...cause I've barely got a clue to what it is, but know it it helps the steering return to center...or something like that, lol. I'm about to jump off another cliff, aren't I? :D

I saw your other post that got in before mine. That's great and makes it even clearer for me. You rock, AL! This place rocks. I swear to God, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this place.:thumbsup:

I swear to God, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this place.:thumbsup:


Me neither!! :yes:

Not mine, but here's one of the bookmarks I had lying around:
http://69camaro.nextmill.net/steering.html

Shows the Lee kit contents in a pic towards the end and has decent info. Good luck!

Not mine, but here's one of the bookmarks I had lying around:
http://69camaro.nextmill.net/steering.html

Shows the Lee kit contents in a pic towards the end and has decent info. Good luck!

Yes, that's ^ from a thread in a sticky above. Very good documentation and it helped me before I started this thread.

My next request will be a kind of "outline" of the procedure itself. Like, "You start with loosening the steering column inside the dash" etc... I don't know the logical steps for conversion. Do I start with the pitman arm? Steering column? Crank pulley? etc, etc...

Outline:

Make sure you have everything. Make sure new pump is complete, and hoses will attach to pump. Check assy manual for how brackets and pump go together, and how they attach to engine. Use correct page, 327 is different from 350! Make sure you have the hardware to secure the brackets to the engine. Some existing bolts may need to be replaced with longers ones.

Jack up car, secure on stands, remove left front tire.

Loosen the steering column under the dashand at the firewall.
Unbolt the ragjoint (2 thru bolts to base of column, not the pinchbolt on the steering box shaft)
Pull the column out to disengage it from the ragjoint.

Pop the joint securing the pitman arm to the steering center link.
Take the big nut off the pitmant arm
Use "pitman arm puller" to remove old pitman arm from old steering box.
Move brakeline out of the way if required.
Remove 3 thru bolts holding old box to frame, remove ol box.

Bolt bracketry to new pump, Leave the bolts a lil loose.

Install Lee inserts in new steering box, Gently push them down with a large brass drift, don't beat on them or try to hard to seat them all the way.

Start both new hose fittings on the steering box, then tighten securely, then remove. (This will seat the inserts, and let the SAE threads on the hose fittings get "used to" the metric threads in the steering box.)

Attach the new ragjoint to the new box securely with the thru bolt. Note this is all keyed and will only go on the right way.

Hoist the new box into place, and attach with the 3 original bolts.
Bend the brakeline back into place.
Attach both new hoses, pressure side closest to engine, and route forward then down under motor mount.

Install new lower crank pulley.
Remove any existing bolts where power steering pump will attach. Note that the water pump bolts go thru to coolant, drain rad if required. (I don't remember where the bolts go on a 69)
Put new pump in place, route hoses up to it and loosely attach.
bolt pump brackets to engine, tighten hose fittings securely, reinstall and tension belts, make sur everything topside is tight.

Push the steering column onto the ragjoint, it will only go on the right way, loosely resecure the steering column under the dash and at the firewall. Secure the ragjoint to the column, tighten the column to firewall and dash bolts securely.

Back underneath... Install new pitman arm (keyed, will only go on right) Secure center link to pitman arm, tighten everything and insert cotter keys. Make sure brakeline is clear of anything. Check hose routing, secure hose if required.

Go back up top, make sure everything is tight and secure, belts on and tight, etc.

Fill pump reservior with power steering fluid. Turn steering wheel lock to lock and back to center, refill as required, repeat until level stops dropping.

Fire motor, spin wheel lock to lock, make sure you have power assist, no funny noises, recheck level.

Tire back on, car on ground, testdrive, done.

Kevin -

The only thing I wanted to add to all the good input you have already gotten is that you want to confirm which mounting set up you need. Did you already confirm that you have the long water pump, and therefore the OE style 69 setup will work?

The original set up uses a lower "cradle" bracket that attaches to a boss on the lower driver side of the water pump (make sure you have the boss; the boss is freestanding, and does not require you to drain the radiator or seal the bolt threads; it's just an open tube that the bolt goes through and gets a nut on the backside), a rear backet that mounts to the front exhaust manifold bolt at the top and to the block at the bottom, and an adjuster/slider bracket that bolts to the pump and the rear bracket.

I'm going to try linking some info on the OE replacement pump.

http://198.208.187.182/internet/PartImage.jsp?mfgname=ACDELCO&prodlinecd=36&acpartnbr=36-517011

AC Delco part # 36-517011

If you go to THIS link, and copy the part number above, you'll see the vehicles that use the same pump. Then, if you have any boneyard nearby that could have any of the vehicles on the list, you might try getting the brackets, pulley, etc., from one of those.

http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp

I agree with Eric on the pump. As long as we're talking a 69 long water pump setup, this same setup was used for many many years on many many chevy cars and trucks. As longs as the engine is in the car and the hoses aren't cut, this system will remain "good" in a boneyard for decades.

Getting the pump. reservior (part of pump) brackets, pulleys off one vehicle in a boneyard is a very effective way to get all the pump parts you need.

Jim, you're a great help, as always. Thank you! Eric, I also recognize your in-depth knowledge of these cars from hundreds of threads I've read here. I will return the kindness to others once I learn a process or two.

How do I determine if I have a long water pump? Will this photo help? :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/dbx/AlternatorPosition004.jpg

I will look for the boss on the water pump tomorrow. I've been beaten and abused today...and I'm toast.

Edit: May be a dumb question , but...would it be any easier to get at the springs for lowering my car before I add PS? Because that is probably my next project after adding PS. Then...new wheels, tires...and enjoyment. Of course, until something else breaks.

That is a long water pump, and the pic clearly shows the boss Eric spoke of sticking out below the lower mouting bolt.

Yep, that's the boss. If you use an OE rear bracket, you'll be adding a little spacer and getting a longer bolt on that front header bolt. The manifold is just a little thicker than the header flange (maybe 3/8 inch or so), but it's pretty straightforward to put a little spacer there.

And doing the springs before or after the PS install is no big deal. If you're just doing the steering, you won't be removing tie rod ends or anything like that, so it's not like you're taking something off and putting it back on, only to do it again later.

That is a long water pump, and the pic clearly shows the boss Eric spoke of sticking out below the lower mouting bolt.

Yep, that's the boss. If you use an OE rear bracket, you'll be adding a little spacer and getting a longer bolt on that front header bolt. The manifold is just a little thicker than the header flange (maybe 3/8 inch or so), but it's pretty straightforward to put a little spacer there.

And doing the springs before or after the PS install is no big deal. If you're just doing the steering, you won't be removing tie rod ends or anything like that, so it's not like you're taking something off and putting it back on, only to do it again later.

I knew keeping that pic would come in handy again :). Eric, is the "longer bolt" you mention possibly the one I listed needing (#780721) because I don't have existing PS?

Nice to know I won't be foloing with tie rods, as I had the impression I would have to. A few of the threads I read mentioned front end alignment after doing this...or so I thought.

I've copied almost everything posted in here, so I can try to reference and absorb it all when my mind is ready, lol. I'm physically and mentally spent today. As Jim knows, I'm rehabbing a shoulder I had surgery on 30 days ago, today. I went and worked out after I spent 6 miserable hours in the sun fooling with the bad wheel cylinder and shoes. I have a feeling I'll sleep late tomorrow :).

I will reread everything in the next day or two and see if I can visualize what I'll be doing. Then, I'll start buying the parts.

Not sure what the 780721 bolt is. The 69 AIM lists the front manifold bolt as 3941101, but the AMK catalog doesn't cross that number, so I'm not sure how long it is.

You'll be pulling the pittman arm out of the center link, and I guess if the PS pittman is longer and/or just positioned differently, maybe that could throw the geometry out enough to need an alignment. I haven't done a manual to PS conversion, so I don't know if the pittman length and position is different.

Some people will get an alignment done to center the steering wheel. I personnaly just pull the steering wheel off and move it.

Done the shoulder rehab thing (I had whatever they call the procedure to cut and then shorten/overlap the front muscle to keep a previously dislocated shoulder in the socket where it belongs), and it was no fun. Now I'm recovering from laying on my back, welding in subframe connectors and grinding the welds to look presentable. I love welding upside down, and there's nothing quite as exhilarating as grinding when you can't move out of the way of the cascade of sparks....

Not sure what the 780721 bolt is. The 69 AIM lists the front manifold bolt as 3941101, but the AMK catalog doesn't cross that number, so I'm not sure how long it is.

You'll be pulling the pittman arm out of the center link, and I guess if the PS pittman is longer and/or just positioned differently, maybe that could throw the geometry out enough to need an alignment. I haven't done a manual to PS conversion, so I don't know if the pittman length and position is different.

Some people will get an alignment done to center the steering wheel. I personnaly just pull the steering wheel off and move it.

Actually, I think some of the guys who mentioned alignments were only upgrading boxes and putting in new pitman arms....but I'm not positive. I'd hate to have to fool with alignment. As it is right now with manual steering, my car will stay straight as an arrow on the highway...better than my other PS vehicles. I guess it's because it isn't as easy to "pull" with inconsistencies/slopes in the road. It's actually a pleasure to drive/steer on the highway. But normal street turns, parking etc...:noway:

Done the shoulder rehab thing (I had whatever they call the procedure to cut and then shorten/overlap the front muscle to keep a previously dislocated shoulder in the socket where it belongs), and it was no fun. Now I'm recovering from laying on my back, welding in subframe connectors and grinding the welds to look presentable. I love welding upside down, and there's nothing quite as exhilarating as grinding when you can't move out of the way of the cascade of sparks....

LOL @ the welding. I had arthroscopic shoulder surgery. Normally they make 3...maybe 4 incisions...but I had 5. I had major AC issues including, severe arthritis, no separation between scapula and clavicle, spurs, torn cartilage, and frayed bicep tendon. My shoulders have always been junk, and I've been lifting weights for the past 5yrs or so, and that sure didn't help things :). On the bright side, family, friends & doc are amazed at my progressive recovery, and attribute it to my having exercised for the past few years.

Kevin, that bolt is the one that holds the ragjoint to the steering shaft. I don't recall if it came with the Lee kit (ragjoint & inserts) or not, but ask them when you order the kit, it's either there or they can include it.

Kevin, that bolt is the one that holds the ragjoint to the steering shaft. I don't recall if it came with the Lee kit (ragjoint & inserts) or not, but ask them when you order the kit, it's either there or they can include it.

Cool. Thanks, Jim.

I ordered all the parts I need today. Or so I hope :).

Everything, including, hose retainers, hose clips (thanks, Al :)), end fitting, and reservoir cap that I almost missed. Bought the vast majority from Advance Auto....some from Lee Mfg, and some from Rick's that I had no real choice on. Total cost of parts is just under $700. Barely above what I expected the total parts to cost. And of course, I has to suck up a couple of core charges since this is a manual to PS install.

Should have all the parts by Thursday....and who knows when I'll get started. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who shudders when they now their car will be down for a bit...and wonder if you're gonna screw it up to where it'll be a looooong time before it's drivable again :D.

You can probably use your old rag joint bolt on the new rag joint.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who shudders when they now their car will be down for a bit...and wonder if you're gonna screw it up to where it'll be a looooong time before it's drivable again :D.

It's just taking EVERYTHING I GOT to leave mine together...lol. Got this shiny new efi system sitting on the workbench... new maifold going out to be made shiny tomorrow. Picked my new heads, alsmost picked my new hydro roller cam... even thinking about vintage air. We don't even want to talk about the size of the oil spot under where I park her... I just can't wait for winter!

Did I say that? Someone hand me a :beers: quick!

You can probably use your old rag joint bolt on the new rag joint.

David, I ordered a bolt anyway; a longer bolt that I read about in a post in the 3rd gen steering sticky. It seems that I may need a longer bolt because I never had PS to begin with. Hey, for $3.97 (from Lee) I'd rather have it on hand...just in case :yes:

It's just taking EVERYTHING I GOT to leave mine together...lol. Got this shiny new efi system sitting on the workbench... new maifold going out to be made shiny tomorrow. Picked my new heads, alsmost picked my new hydro roller cam... even thinking about vintage air. We don't even want to talk about the size of the oil spot under where I park her... I just can't wait for winter!

Did I say that? Someone hand me a :beers: quick!

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes :). I hear you! Well, the way I look at it, living in Atlanta, I should be able to get my fair share of drive time throughout the year. I figure that with all the expected, unexpected BS that will happen when I do the PS conversion, it'll be down for at least a few days, lol. We'll see. But yeah, then I want to lower it...and who knows when I'll open that can of worms, as it'll be another first for me.

Guys, as I mentioned, I ordered all the parts to do the conversion. However, I realized today that I didn't get the "hardware kit" with the brackets. Thought it came with, but I see now it's separate.

Anyway, as I'm reading the "instructions" that came in the box with the reman pump/res...it keeps saying "use the included bolts/tools"...but there aren't any. :confused:

Will the bracket mounts I need to get be used to go "through" the pump in any way? I also have a press-on PS pulley with a keyway, and it says to use a retaining nut. I don't have this either.

I'm wondering what other little things will become a PIA and halt installation. This is a first for me, and I'm really blind. It's also a complete conversion, not an upgrade of a box. I got the "long" bolt to be used with Cardone box, but I'm assuming I use any other hardware for the box form the old one. Now, the pump has me wondering what I might need for hardware, beside the brackets. Is Rick's PSP-43 'SB bracket & pump hardware set" http://www.rickscamaros.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=PSP%2D43&dept%5Fid=3494
all I need for the pump and brackets?

In any event, it looks like I won't be starting until next weekend because of the missing hardware, and I don't have the ragjoint/inserts from Lee's yet. But I just spent all day installing a great sound system in it, so I could use the break!