Ok, I have seen this statement many times on this site. “Don’t do the quarter panels without the weight of the vehicle on the axles.”

I have my bird up on jack stands located at the very front of the cowl about where the sub frame front mounts are And on a 4x4 across the rear frame rails where the high point of the axle bumpers are and also at the very rear of the rocker panels.
The doors are on the car and aligned, I just installed / aligned the trunk lid this week end. Everything seems to look good and aligned. As I stated in an earlier post on the driver’s side of the car the inner and outer wheel houses have been removed most of the quarter panel, the entire floor and torque box. The convertible x bracing is still in the car. The torque box basically was gone anyway from rot and rust and wasn’t providing any support.
So I have measured and adjusted to the imaginary reference line as suggested by a forum member, all looks even and parallel. I did use a lase level at his suggestion, that worked awesome ! Thanks for the sugestion!! graemlins/beers.gif
Test fitting of panels has been done using a ¼ panel skin, Door gaps look good, if I keep everything aligned can I just weld everything up and it will be OK when it’s sitting on the wheels? or is it going to be way off and I should wait to do the ¼’s when it is back on 4 wheels and “loaded”?
Is the car going to bend that much from the weight? If so how much "bend" can I expect?

Bob

I think you should wait until the structural repairs are finished and the car us supported by its own suspension before you even think about putting the 1/4s on. Not that I have much experience with convertibles, but why take any chances?

Hopefully, someone who has welded quarter skins on (not full quarters) with the car not being supported by its own weight will chime in.

I am installing FULL quarters. I'm just using a set of skins to line things up...Using the bumper bracket mounting holes ...ect/...
Bob

I have welded full 1/4s on with no subframe or rear in car. I had the car supported at the rockers. When everything was put back together and on it's own suspension there were no problems and I have done this 3 times so far and am in the process of doing the 4th one now which is a 67 rs/ss camaro. I am actually replacing all sheetmetal complete minus the roof with all goodmark full panels.

Thanks Zekrec, is there anything off the top of your head that i should watch for? Everthying measures OK now that i leveled and straightened the car.

The reason for all the warning about doing this is that there are too many variables. For instance, the body is empty sitting on jack stands under the rockers, yeah that should work. However, you can't tell someone you can do it when you don't know all the conditions. For instance, if he were to have the jack stands under the body frame rails at the rear body panel and at the front of the rockers, you bet you butt there could be some serious problems when assembling the car.
How about if the rockers are weakened by rust?

The plain and simple fact is the body IS going to change shape somewhat when assembled. How much, that will be different from car to car. The fact that the parts are aligned now, with the car on jack stands means nothing, they could fit as well, or maybe not later, it just depends on too many variables.

I made the mistake when I chopped the top on my truck as a kid. The rear cab mounts were missing and the previous owner had made some out of a block of wood. The cab sat down lower in the back, not much but lower. After chopping the top and fitting everything, I replaced the cab mounts. The doors did NOT fit anymore, I will tell you that.

I made the mistake a few more times as I remember, though I can't remember details. I do know one thing though, I stopped taking the chance years ago and never had the problem again.
I can also tell you that it is one of those basic, in every auto body text book kinda things. It is mentioned in every class I have ever taken on structual repairs.

MartinSr,
I agree there are many variables that come into play that are very important and affect final alignment. But with the mistake on removing too much material without sufficient bracing.I have to make a decision about how is the best way to fix my error. We all do dumb things that seem OK at the time..LOL

For instance if I just line up the inner wheel wells, trunk, and floors with the car supported as I stated then weld everything up except the quarter panel, Install all the suspension; place the car on its feet. Assuming the car will bend under the weight, won’t I have an issue with the quarters lining up with the wheel wells after?
My plan is:
1) Level the car as best as possible (I’m
shooting for a max of 1/8 inch variance)
using x measurements and laser level. I
spent all Saturday doing just this.

2) Install and “test fit and tweak” all
the components together.

3) Weld the complete floor

4) Recheck alignment and weld the wheel
well clam shell.

5) Weld in the trunk, extensions and drop
offs simultaneously with the quarters.

6) Weld the FULL quarter panel.

7) Then do the other side!

I would use the right side of the car as a reference during the process.
When the car does “bend” from being place on the suspension is the tendency of the car to bend so the gap widens at the doors or does it get narrower? And how much can bow can I expect?

I still can’t seem to find the body specifications in inches for door, trunk openings,,ect.. this information has got to be out there somewhere. Not gap specs but openings. I live very close to a few body shops in Manchester, NH so I intend to stop at some of the older ones to see if the have a shop manual for the 60’s and 70’s that I can look at.

Does anybody have the Camaro body manual? If so could you look at the rear frame specs. In my firebird body manual they have location "e" as 11.xx inches and location "f" as 15.xx inches, even though the “e” location is higher. Are the values just swapped or are they incorrect?

PS: This is a HELP request,I’m open to any and all suggestions. Please send them in!

If you have the car supported at the rockers and providing the rockers are solid inner and outer which I did not state before you can see how much you will flex by putting a 2x4 across the rear frame rails were the rear of the spring would attach and you a jack to load it a little to see what kind of flex you will get.

Actually it has suport at 6 locations 4 of them being the rockers, or very close to the rockers in the front.

I had missed the very important point that this is a convertible! That makes it even more important that the bodies weight is on "the axles". They flex a LOT thru the rocker area. Heck, lift up a convertible with a jack under one frame horn and lift,it is likly you won't be able to open a door! My Gran Sport has a full, boxed, rust free frame. But if I put it on the lift with the lift pads under each "torque box" you can not open a door!

In replacing as much as you are it is tough because you obviously can't have the weight of the car on the spring mounts with the the floor and drop offs out. You have to do those with the weight as acurately as you can, it is just common sense and it sounds like you have plenty of that.

I replace rear frame sections and floors all the time in late model cars. I will often have to remove suspension componants and have the body bolted to frame clamps. The rear of the body will be hanging off in mid air. If the rails are not being pulled down by weight, if they are both the same height and all the other panels mount properly, it will be fine. But when installing a quarter where those body gaps are so critical from the door to quarter and quarter to deck lid, you bet your butt I am going to have all the inner structure done, and the cars weight on the axles before I weld it in.

If you trial fit the quarter and the HEIGHT of the body at the points you will weld it together like over the wheelwell are correct, it is a pretty safe bet you can weld those parts in. Of course, that is if you have measured and measured all points, cross measuring included.

After you have all those componants welded in, you can then put the body down on the axle with springs mounted. Put the sub frame in, with it being held up under the spring points. This is still not exactly as the forces that will exist when the car is on the tires but close.
At that point you can align the doors paying close attention to the gap along the bottom! That gap should be even.

The top of the door to quarter gap is what will get smaller with the weight on the ground, so if anywhere you left it a little big, it would be there. But you should be pretty close if you have it setting like I said when you weld the quarters on.

Now, when you put the front fenders and doors on for final alignment, you MUST have the car on the ground,period.

Thanks MartinSr,
So just to get it sraight, Weld everything except the quarters with the body supported as I have it now. Making sure that all measurements are accurate.
Then reassemble the rear suspension and front subframe supported at the rear by the axle and the front by suspension. Makes sense, i'll let you know how it turns out.. I was just concerned about the panels not aligning after if i did part of the panels on jackstands and then the quarters after with the car on it's feet.
The front subframe is totaly rebuilt and ready to be installed so I can just sit the whole thing on all 4 tires.
Should I add any weight to the body before final quarter fitting?

Bob

I wouldn't worry about it then, but before the front sheet metal and doors I would have have motor in it.