i just bought a 67 convertible and it needs everything.quaters,floors,rockers,ect.part of the rear frame rail is rotted ,you know right where the spring comes through the floor!!!anyway where should i start,i think i should start on the floors then rockers then quaters,ect.also the floor supports are rotted,do they make repo's of these or will i have to fab them up.any help would be appreciated.(all my friends tell me to scrap it!to hell with them)there's nothin like a bowtie!!!!!!!

sell it go to your nearest BANK borrow the money and go buy one already done make monthly payments drive it and enjoy it NOW.

While there is a lot to be said about the benefits of buying a running driving a classic, there is a lot to be said about doing one your self. It is always to start at the beginning and end at the end. If there is ever an end.

Sounds like you might need to find a donor coupe for a lot of what you want. It may be easier to half a coupe and install your convertible parts on it. That assumes the front of your car is in good shape. If not, it would be more cost effective to part it out and buy an easier project.

Doug

Been their done that. I agree with Hideaway. Unless you have a ton of patience, many tools, and unforseen bucks to spend I would bail out before you get started. Not trying to discourage you but your about to embark onto a huge job that will take hundreds of hours, and tons of money to get the car back up and running. Unless the car has a bunch of unique features I would likely opted to move onto another car. And I do agree, Their is nothing better than a Bowtie.

Good luck... We are all here to help out each other.

Wacky

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1969 (http://www.hobbystage.net/camaro/wacky) Fully Papered and Documented Coupe.

I agree that there is alot to be said for doing the work yourself. I used to feel more that way until one day I realized I did nothing but work like a dog trying to fix up clunkers. It was never ending, took all my money, I never got to enjoy driving them, and my wife was always on me about spending too much time in the garage. So, my last few cars were purchased totally restored or as nice drivers. I got small interest loans to buy them and I couldn't believe how much money I was saving each month even after making the payment. A few years back I took a concours restored car I bought to a show and was talking to a guy I knew. I told him that I really didn't care if I won an award because I didn't do the hard work to the car. He said "so what, it's still your car". Maybe he is right, maybe not. I guess all of this is relative to each person's financial position and interest but for me the decision is clear.

well thanks guys.but i'm gonna tackle this job.i have all the tools i need.mig welder plasma cutter all the air tools,i'm confident that i can do the job.i've done most of this kind of work before.thanks,and i will kepp you posted on my progress.......

If you have a full time job and are able to replace everything that you have stated and then paint the car, you are looking at a minimum of two years out of your life.
If you have no other job, but to work on your Camaro, then you are looking at about a minimum of 500 hours of bodywork or 3 months straight labor. Some of those hours will be necessary to fabricate equipment, a booth, a blast cabinet, and contraptions to do the job, since a person usually needs to buy or build some basic equipment for the first restore job. Unless you have a $10,000 restore budget and can find reasonably priced used GM convertible quarter panels, then you will be buying poor fitting repro panels that will take up more of your time to make work.
Get ready for the "Big Black Hole" to open up in your wallet for your new hobby. As there are tools you haven't even fathomed that you will want to buy until a few months into the restoration process.

I speak from experience. My convertible was dissembled two years ago and if I'm lucky I'll have it painted by May 2003. At that point I will have close to 1000 hours of spare time labor invested in both body, interior and drivetrain. Needless to say, I will never be compensated for 3/4 of those hours if I decide to sell it some day.

You need to realistic in estimating your man hours, then double it. You have choices to make like, do I buy new nuts and bolts? Or, do I spend more time beadblasting the old ones and buy a zinc plating kit and plate the old nuts and bolts?

Good luck with your project. If you are a typical hobbyist you will probably spend three time more hours agonizing about how to approach the project in advance when compared with the actual work time spent on the car.

Oh, by the way, the first objective is to make sure you never get careless and hurt yourself during the restore. A trip to the emergency room will usually cause a delay in your project.

Speaking purely as a fan of classic cars I say Right On Man! If you are going to restore a car that most people would toss aside then you are a classic car hero. If I had the time, tools and know how I would definitely save a car in this kind of condition. There few enough camaros on the road today as it is. More power to you.

I bought my 69 coupe a little over a year ago..At the same time, I was buying my first house (with an unfinished basement) I am now going to pass on some very good advice to you: Find and join your nearest Camaro club.
The combined experience of the club is invaluable, and second...Go get yourself a wheelbarrow full of cash! My wife wants me to hurry and finish the basement, and I want to hurry and buy engine parts, and rear ends, and, and, etc. I'm glad I'm doing everything myself, but it's gonna take a long time...

Just my .02 but this is what I do for my job.
I am in the middle of a 69 rs/ss 396 4sp car.
now I had to put new qtr and outter wheel house. My floors and trunk and the rest are all in good shape. Now as I said this is what I do every day. I already have over 150 hours in this and i'm just finished with the qtr. I still have not even taken the engin and trans or rear end out and put the tub on my stand that i have not even built yet. I can tell you that at my shop if you came in I would try to tell you to spend the first $5000 on a cleaner body. Justs everyone has said you will be way ahead of the game if you start with something cleaner. I don't want you to think i'm tring to tell not to restore an old chevy just start with somthing alittel better. Again just my .02.

P.S. If you need any advice just let me know will be glad to help.
Rick

well i'm pretty pigheaded,so i'm still gonna go for it.i think everyone misunderstood my question.what i really wanted to know was should i start with the floors or the rockers.the quaters i know will be after the floors and rockers are done.thanks for any imput.....

I am in the same boat you are. I am doing my floors and inner rockers 1 side at a time. After the floors are complete I will tackle the quarters. IMHO the floors are more labor but the quarters take a lot more skill & practice which you will get more of when you do the floors.
http://www.skullmobile.com/fbird/fbird.htm

P.S. they have a point about not getting the time and money you have invested back, but how much is the pride of doing something like this yourself worth? A lot to me personally.

[This message has been edited by MrAbody (edited 01-03-2003).]

I would start with the floors first. Than do one qtr and rocker at the same time this way you can get the line right and make sure to leave the doors on when you are installing the qtr and rockers. Are you going to use gm qtr's or repos. I'm not sure it they sell full repos for conv yet. Well any way have lots of fun.

Rick

I also have a 67 convertible that is in the process of restoration. Here is my support of your project and advise. When bought I thought I had something better then it is. Now thats not to say its bad. But when things come apart they usually get worse. If you have the know-how and are willing to tackle this thing yourself you have already determined your talents can handle the work. Here is the process mine has taken. First I pulled the entire interior, dash, removed the top frame, glass, windshield, fuel lines, etc. Basically gutted the car. I left in place the motor, suspension, drivetrain, etc. This was done because if you are going to remove floor pans, sections of rocker, quarters, door skins and fenders the car will need to be supported from areas that will load the car as if sitting on its tires. This puts the correct stresses in areas that will affect newly installed panels. I first removed the floor pans one side at a time. While the pans were out I repaired the passenger side inner rocker. With the pan still out I repaired the area around the leaf spring support. I did this by cutting out small areas of rust with a plasma cutter, making a patch and welding back in. Once completed I replaced that pan. Currently I am replacing driver side door skin and will rehang door and align in preparation for removal of ... REAR QUARTERS!!! I can't wait! Enjoy. I'll answer any questions I can. I'm just ahead of you walking point. Good Luck.

thanks for the imput guys.i thought i should start with the floors.as far as the quarters go i have 2 complete quaters off of another convertible.i'm just gonna cut these out near the top body line.the rockers are from ricks first gen.they said the inner rockers(coupe) could be used for a convertibe.they have to be slightly modified.did't get them yet so i don't know whats involved.i'll keep you posted......

Mr.A, saw your pictures. Looks like my camaro a few months ago. For some way out reason my driver side "torque box" had Zero (0) rust. Go figure. I was able to clean up my rockers with just a few patches. Then I pulled a por 15 soaked rag through a few times to coat the inside. seems to have covered after a few passes.( allow to dry between "pulls"). I'm having so much fun. I really enjoy doing the work myself. When you look back after each phase it gives you a good feeling doesn't it?

im in the same boat. have to replace both the quater and the whole rear of the car. but i think the fact that you save money by just getting rid of it and buying one that is all ready done i dont agree with that. cuz if u buy one that is done you pay what 10,000 on the norm and the interest. if a man like myself is going to take his time and buy peace buy pease and do it yourself in the long you save money and you have the pride of doing it yourself. got about 3000 in mine and about 2500 t0 3000 left to buy in parts that i can see that needs to be replaced. and i dont have a car payment each month so if i dont want to buy any parts this month i dont and that money gets saved. so if you got a car payment and you want to do something with your car or want to do something with the family you spend more money that month. and that dont add up to me. so i think if you are going to take your time and do what you can do yourself go for it i think in the long run you will come out making money cuz these cars only grow in value. and to me man hours is not a factor in the cost of the car untill you plan to sale the car. this was not attempt to make anyone mad. i have made this argument in the past on stuff i have done in the past. so EMTCEE1973 GO FOR IT AND KEEP US POSTED ON THE REBUILD.

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free 68 in japan my first chevy http://www.geocities.com/claycitydude/68

[This message has been edited by claycityman (edited 01-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by claycityman (edited 01-04-2003).]

I figure you have an excellent oportunity to install custom beer can hiding spots for the cruise when the police decide they want to see a real car. But for things to do first I'd clean and overhaul if needed the shifter with new bushings and adjust it. Then probably the inside floors and trunk with roof, cowl and trunk rim places leaks could be. Maybe even put a roll cage in before questioning redoing all the seats and fantasize a little about a 5 point harness and racing seat. Maybe even have one front quarter off at a time to give you something to work on outside of the car when you want to quit paining your knees. Have a good one.

emtcee, hope to see your car one day. I live in Eatontown prety close to you.
Good luck and patient with your project.
Ismail

[This message has been edited by ismail (edited 01-05-2003).]

I belive the floors would be the best place to start, make sure you jig the car before you start cutting on the car or it will fold in half on you. Then you'll have to find another project. Did you say that the rockers were in good shape? these take most of support of the car along with the floor pans, x-brace,qtr bracing,etc.

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67 RS ragtop

the rockers need to be replaced also.i figured to start with the floors but now i'm thinkink i should start with the rockers so the floors just aren't swingin in the breeze.

If your inner rockers need work ( I'll bet they do ), then you will have to pull the floors to get to them. The inner rockers are like "I" beams. They are very strong. Just be sure to support the car so that the supports are under the rear or leaf springs and under the lower A arms. This loads the chassis or subframe as if sitting on the ground. You will have to unbolt the back bolt of the subframe when you pull the floors. Just remember to support this area so the subframe does not want to dip in the rear.

thanks guys,i will be recieving the sheetmetal in a couple of days.i'll keep you posted.

Boy, what a topic! I have a friend that argued with me about just buying one that's done already ( 10k @ 9% later he did )He's been down the resto road before, seen this issue from both sides and wouldn't change a thing. I've done a 69 coupe , that didn't need half of what I see people on this board have done and I built my own 5000 sq. ft.home , while I worked a full time job (and my kids still recognize me) in less than half the time it took to build the car. These cars are "time pits" more than money pits in my opinion, especially when you do most of the work in-house.
Pace your self, you can't be in a hurry when you do these types of things, or it will end up looking like it. You know , smell the roses along the way,live a little and don't forget to take lots of digital pix! Can't wait to start the next one.

just wanted to let those that have helped on my project that it is going good.i have replaced the floors, rockers(inner and outter), quarters,trunk(someone else chop job).welde in sub frame mount patches.almost all done with the body work.the main reason i am posting is because there was a question of weather or not it was worth it,well to me it was.for those taking on a project as involed as this one just take your time and think about what u are doing.it is not as hard as u might think.now, that doesn't mean that it is easy but with time and patience it can be done.just wanted to say thanks.

hey emtcee73,

before welding in the new floors, i would go over the chassis and make sure it measures up correctly, weld in subframe connectors, then hit your floors and body....
i'm with you, no car is too far gone!
its gettin harder to find affordable project cars, at least in my area...
by the way, i played soccer for the 1973 bricktown roughnecks....
good luck
kip

sorry about my 'late' post, the second page wasn't comin up for me....
congrats on getting through the 'ugly' stuff...

Take LOTS of pictures and Document, Document, Document! Take measurements(I will send you some). Dont tear nothing apart until you can put it back together in your head, cause it will be years before its done(unless money is of no object).

And if you can pass that small test, the big test will be patience. :D

Wow.....I just read through this enitre thread and felt like you were all talking to me. Just like emtcee1973, I bought a junker '67 Camaro...although I get the feeling that mine is in worse shape. I have been looking for a while and it seemed like all the semi-decent junkers were going for $4,000-$5,000. One day I am surfing E-bay and come across a 67 sitting at $1,250 with a minute remaining. I walked away with it for $1,325- Still don't know if I made the right decision....but its made and I'll be picking the car up in a coupla weeks. Here's what it looks like (don't laugh):

http://www.SierraRockCrawlers.com/imageupload/tmp/camaro_as_bought_1.jpg

http://www.SierraRockCrawlers.com/imageupload/tmp/camaro_as_bought_2.jpg

http://www.SierraRockCrawlers.com/imageupload/tmp/camaro_as_bought_3.jpg

I noticed that there were a few people in this thread that are in a similar position. I would love to hear any discoveries you have made that would have made the job easier. My e-mail is sergei@fhicda.com

Part of the reason I bought this car was because I had plans to reaplce everything regardless and build a Pro-Touring Convertible. I WILL be taking digi's all the way through and posting up here so everyone can see my successes and/or failures. Wish me luck......

Sergei-

hey Rock Toy,i say go for it!!that was less than i paid and the only original metal let on my car is the firewall, trans hump and inner wells.i just painted my car last week!!! it took me about 8 months to get to that point(and a paitient girlfriend).just be paitient.i don't know how to post pics but if u need any i can e-mail them to u.(emtcee@comcast.net)and yeah my car was in just about as bad of shape as yours.if u have the time and money then this project is for u.some will tell u don't waste your time(which is fine)but i say do it.let me know if u need any info.good luck!!

Sergei, my car looks similar to yours! I got mine for $3200 with a #'s matching drivetrain. You got yours for a good price if your up to the task of rebuilding it.I was embarrassed to tell anyone what i paid for mine. I just starting hanging the new sheetmetal and putting the rotiserie together. I figure i can finish my car for about 8k doing the work myself, so that would put my total investment at $11,200.Where can you buy a #'s matching rstored 68 ragtop for that? smile.gif Good luck!

If you guys ever question "Was it worth it?", always remember that the answer is YES! That Camaro could have gone to the shredder otherwise.
And there IS light at the end of the tunnel..... it's just a wicked long tunnel! I envy the people that can drag something like that home and have it in the paint booth in under a year. That blows my mind. Must have some seriously deep pockets and a hell of a lot of free time.
I was in the same boat the day I towed my junker home 4 yeara ago (for $500!) and it ain't gonna be no show winner when it's done but it'll be a Camaro again!
Good luck!

here is a link to some pics.
http://home.comcast.net/~emtcee

sorry bad link.here it is...
http://home.comcast.net/~emtcee/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

Nice.....those pics DEFINITELY make me feel better. Prior to doing all the work on your Camaro, what kind of experience did you have with bodywork?

i've done several cars before,none to this extent though.i've been welding only for a few years,but not everyday.good luck.

just wanted to update all that are interested in my project.well after almost 2 yrs she is about 1 1/2 weeks away from being on the road.just to let everyone know, for ME this was definatly worth the effort.if i had to do it over again, i definatly would.the experience i have gained through all of this was invaluable.check out my web page and tell me what u guys think.also i want to thank all who have helped throuhout the process.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/747442

Originally posted by emtcee1973:
(all my friends tell me to scrap it!to hell with them)there's nothin like a bowtie!!!!!!! HELL YEAH!
I'm glad you stuck with it and gained so much from the experience! graemlins/thumbsup.gif
graemlins/beers.gif

thanks hwystar! i can't wait to smoke the tires for the first time.i will have a long road ahead of tuning the accel dfi but i think it will be worth it.thanks again!!!

WOW, congrats man, you did good!

well i've owned my car since march, and have already spent $10k on it,

there is easily another $20,000 to go, i havent even started body work ;)

but i love it, and the car loves me, (or maybe just the gas i put in it? haha agh) so if you're heart is in it i guess, go for it, but if i were you dude, i would just ditch the car and find less of a rust monster

This is a process that takes at least twice the amount of time and money from what you think. You have to be passionate about it to follow through with it. Another word for passionate is "crazy" , Welcome to the asylum.

$4000 for the car another $4000 for body work
$1500 for engine including rebuild, $1000 for A/C
$800 for disc brake, $350 for trans with rebuild,
$200 for posi rear, Countless Hundreds for bidy parts and such. I'm still a year away at least and need wheels, tires, and a paint job.

Don't tell my wife how much I've spent.

Where is my straitjacket?

Money.... oh man the money. That's something I never counted on.
I've kept the bulk of receipts for this project, except the odd one here and there for supplies and things. I don't DARE add them up. I'll wait until it's almost done.... maybe!
;)

Crazy indeed... and oh the money. I try to limit it to 2k a year, and have never done anything to take the car "down" during ragtop season. I'm at $4k all ready this year, and I stripped it pretty bare 3 weeks ago, and haven't spent any money on that yet. My "needed" list at D&R is currently at $2400, Summit list is a grand, paint jobber list another 8 bills or so. Plus the 600 replacement compressor and $100 good die grinder I just bought... If PDQ67 comes thru for me with a useable 400 motor, add another 1.5k for summit and the machine shop... and somehow it's all gotta be spent by start of ragotp season, May 1 here in Chicago... The bug has bitten me hard this year! (it's all Mike1978's fault, for selling me those dart heads!)

yeah guys, the money for me was hard to part with.for years now i've been wanting to restore a camaro.so for the past 4-5 yrs i was saving money just for this purpose.i did at least 25 side jobs(cabinetmaker) to save up the money for this.so i had about $15,000 saved.sure i could have just went and bought one already done, but what would be the fun in that?!i will always be working on cars to some extent but i will probably never do one like this again.another reason i did a car like this(the main reason)is because my father died about 2 1/2 yrs ago(at 58yrs old)and i really needed something to take my mind off of him.so was it worth it?ABSOLUTLY!!!!this was my thearpy and i would not have changed it for anything.yeah a lot of money was spent on this car but who cares,cause u can't take it with u when your gone.
mike

Great accomplishment. I really like the gauges and console. Did you purchase the console? Fuel injection to boot. I think you just added alot of money to my project smile.gif

the console for the guages is a covans classic dash.the center console where the radio and my tach are i made.here is covans web site.
http://covansclassic.com/parts/index.php?UID=2004121608331668.39.114.182

Thanks, You have created a very sweet ride. Thanks for the information.

[ 12-16-2004, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: buckmiz ]

no problem buck, and thanks!