I recently read the post on the 1st Gen devalue . I am on the West Coast where 1st Gen Camaros have been HOT these past years. I am curious to ask Fellow Team Camaro folks to do a quick survey. If you have sold a Camaro recently,..last year to recent, what was your asking price....and then what was the price sold. Along w brief description? I found it very interesting and agree that there are two groups of Camaro buffs, those who care if it is an Original...and those who could care less. I have bought and sold several 1st Gen Camaros this past year, from hulked out, rusted shells, to detailed to the max clones, to a bona fide RS/SS shell. I have made money on each. I will warn you, I am a 54 year old female, who loves all aspects of 1st Gens and do not think Joe American Public is going to stop buying the toys they want. Honesty counts on this...I will start

68 350 4sp bought for 7,000 - spent 2,000.sold as SS clone detailed to the max inside and out but in need of paint for 14,500.
67 painted shell, bought for 7,000 - spent 3,500 sold as SS clone detailed to the max inside and out w paint so-so for 20,000.
67 bona fide RS/SS shell bought for 5,300. sold untouched for 8,700.00
68 - 6cyl 3sp on floor, complete, unrestored, rusted out bucket, bought for 2,000. sold untouched for 2,600.
67 shell that came with a LOT of extra parts we kept and took more off car, bought for 2,500. Sold for 3,000.

I admit when I say detailed I mean it. New interior, every bolt on engine repainted, all parts inside and out in working order. In other words..we did our homework, and work. I still believe a smart buyer will always be able to make money on a 1st Gen.

Signed, TADA in WA - the Camaro state.:hurray:

The market on most things follows the stock market. Weak stock market car values in general are soft, people aren't spending as much money on their hobbies.

67 near all original bought for $11,500...invested $300.....asked $17,500...sold for $16,500...(buyer got a smoking deal)
69 near all original bought for $20,000...invested $500....asked $23,000...sold for $22,500...(I had buyers remorse - so I sold it quick)
Currently own a very original 69 that I bought for $20,000 and have been already offered $30,000 for it.....

I think the market is still awesome...especially here out West.... I'm not seeing any decline whatsoever...I think the real big ticket items may get affected more....you'll see it this year at B.J.

The making of the money comes on the "BUY".....Being in the right place at the right time....having the cash...and willing to pull the trigger right away is the secret....as most good deals sell within the first day or two.....

Dan

Dan, you are correct when you say that the money is made on the buy.

However, you guys are leaving out the fact that gains on the sale of automobiles are taxable, and larger dollar amounts such as these are much more difficult to hide from the IRS. Unless you are dealers, I would be very cautious regarding these transactions-- There are built-in algorithms that the IRS uses to track unreported individual capital gains transactions, and they are very effective.

Also, if you are buying cars and titling/registering them, you have to factor the titling/registration tax into the buying price; I'm not sure if the gains reported in this thread include these $$...

So, who says I didn't report it? I think the post was regarding the question of the current Camaro market prices possibly taking a "nose dive" based on the stock market, housing foreclosure situation creating the same kind of "bubble pop", and subsequent, leveling. Plus, some folks belief that Camaro prices have been over inflated these past years. Which I in turn believe that the good ole American love of a really HOT, detailed to the max, true "muscle car" will always sell, will always be...a good investment...because...the guys who have the money....are going to go buy what they want...when they want. Plus, the American JANE who can turn an honest wrench herself can still have one of these classics, (maybe not a RS/SS BB) and enjoy the fun of bringing it back to life. yo. I myself started in 1996 owning the sweetest little 67 6cyl, AT column, deluxe interior, GG colored, less than 70,000 original miles that cost a whopping 3600.00. Manual brakes, manual steering. Solid, sweet ride. AHHH the dream CAN belong to anyone. Questions?

The market on most things follows the stock market. Weak stock market car values in general are soft, people aren't spending as much money on their hobbies.

My take is that the collector car market in someways mirrors the housing market. In the late 80's housing was hot and so was the car collector market. When the housing market fell in the early 90's so did collector cars. As the housing market boomed early 2000 to recently so did collector muscle cars. I am not speculating or making a prediction, just stating what I have observed. Remember, if this is a hobby and you really enjoy your cars, value fluctuations really don't matter.

BTW the european collector car market is a whole different story...

I think the public is just getting smarter about what to buy. The well built no corners cut cars will hold thier value. The people that are asking $ 30,000.00 for a rag are going to be disappointed. All restored camaros are not equal.

Amen, ive bought and sold a few nice camaro's well worth the money with no problems whatsoever, everyone is always very happy with the product and price, as the saying goes, "You can always sell a nice car" because usually it sells itself.

Amen, ive bought and sold a few nice camaro's well worth the money with no problems whatsoever, everyone is always very happy with the product and price, as the saying goes, "You can always sell a nice car" because usually it sells itself.

Why haven't you been able to sell your 69 rs/ss red rag top. You've had it for sale for three plus years?

Pat, In Oregon. The market here is slow in my area for project cars, a year ago I could have made more on these car. In the last two years I has sold 12 first gens camaros.
67 complete shell $4200 sold for $4800
68 shell $3000 sold for $3700
Just pick up a nice 67 RS complete car in parts.
I have a business and at the end of the year my tax man takes care of the paper work.

.....the collector car market in someways mirrors the housing market....

I'll see your Collector Car Market............ and raise you an entire economy... I'm all in.

Personally, I think a HUGE part of our whole economy it connected at the hip to the housing market. I have been "studying", on a daily basis, what has been happening to the economy over the last 12-18 months. Out here in Kal-E-Fornya we have been tiding the home equity wave for so long that it has ended up ona rocky shore. Here's my perception of what has happened (short version) over the last 5-7 years:


People bought houses that were at the absolute limit (or beyond their limit) of what they could afford.
They speculated that the house would increase in value (which it did), and they borrowed against it / refinanced it (with neg. amort loand and adjustables) to pull more cash out, live high on the hog, keep up with the Jones'.
Home values kept going up, so the cycle not only repeated itself, it accelerated itself. If you could make 20%, or 50% on a house, why not flip it and go big --- I know people who sold their house every 1-2 years just so they cold invest in a bigger house and make more net $$$.
When the bubble burst, with adjustable rate mortgages increasing payment amounts and interest only loans kicking in the principal payment requirement, homeowners get in trouble en mass.What I see in the disposable income brackets is that the category of people who have real money are OK, and those who have been living on fiat money are in trouble. (The definition of real money in this scenario is someone who has equity in their home that goes beyond what increases have transpired in the last few years, and who has a debt-to-income ratio that is not out of control... not someone who has "Big" money.) People who have a stable job or retirement income that will allow them to live comfortably, those who have their kids already out of college or have the tuition planned out in advance, or those who have made money and saved it over the years are all in good shape. The majority of this category is in the mid to latter age bracket.

What I have personally seen is what I call the "middle of the market disappear"... not necessarily in cars, but in the whole economy. The "high end" products in almost every category I have studied seem to be doing well, or at least better than the "mid-market products. Sales of $60 bottles of wine have not dropped in percentage points aws much as $12 bottles; the same goes with bicycles, hot tubs, boats and other categories I have looked at. I guess it can be said that "those who have money will continue to have it and are not as afraid to spend it as those who don't". I think the hardest hit are young families who "got into the game" at the tail end of the real estate boom. In my business they have all but evaporated from the retail scene and, if they are not buying or investing, other segments of the economy are suffering as well. It's a domino effect and I don't see it changing soon enough. All economic trends are cyclical, and I don't think this one will be eny different. I do, however, this current downward trand we are in will be much more prolonged than any we have seen in recent times.

Have a happy, cheery day :yes:

No one has stepped up to the plate with the right change/asking price and thats one im not budging on because of what the car is, ive owned it for over 14 years and if i have it another 14 not a problem at all, as they say "Its not a fire sale" I do not need to sell it, as a matter of fact i enjoy going out and just looking at it. :)

No one has stepped up to the plate with the right change/asking price and thats one im not budging on because of what the car is, ive owned it for over 14 years and if i have it another 14 not a problem at all, as they say "Its not a fire sale" I do not need to sell it, as a matter of fact i enjoy going out and just looking at it. :)

Like I previously stated, if you enjoy them and love them, who cares what they are worth, or if you sell them. I know it is hard to drive a freshly restored concours car, but I do and enjoy using them. They won't stay #1's, but that is the price you pay.

Yes, you cannot go wrong on 1st gen camaro's. I do not think they have devalued. I am on the west coast and where ever you go to a car show you will see camaro's. Not too many Mopars, lots of Mustangs, but always a camaro or two in the mix.

I have yet to drive my concourse restored rs/ss convertible therefore its still brandnew in the wrapper so to speak but im sure ill get it out one day, for the time being ive found and bought a rs convertible to drive and enjoy.

I have yet to drive my concourse restored rs/ss convertible therefore its still brandnew in the wrapper so to speak but im sure ill get it out one day, for the time being ive found and bought a rs convertible to drive and enjoy.


You might be able to sell it if you finish it....

Let me re-phrase:

YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SELL IT IF YOU FINISH IT......

As stated above its no biggie if i sell it or not, no fire sale here!! :)

Please let me re-phrase for the elderly and hard hearing above:

AS STATED ABOVE ITS NO BIGGIE IF I SELL IT OR NOT, NO FIRE SALE HERE! :)

dreamweaver-does that 'Spark Plug Wax' increase the speed of the spark or is it more of a cosmetic thing? I would think you are making a fortune with it.

dreamweaver-does that 'Spark Plug Wax' increase the speed of the spark or is it more of a cosmetic thing? I would think you are making a fortune with it.

Neither... and both. This is a multi-purpose wax that can be used on the tip to reduce friction and increase the velocity of the spark. We have recorded it with a pseudonanomicrometer with amazing results. Since we now have it available in correct factory factory colors many are using it to cover imperfections in engine and component paint. Out new formula, Spark Plug Wax II, has been tested to hold up to over 2000 degrees (F) so we know it has long lasting results. The problem at this point is in application because you have to use high heat to get it to the correct consistancy. But, by far, the most widely known application is still for those have a tendency to cross-thread anything from spark plugs to bolts. Had we known this in the beginning we would have come up with a different name, like "Easy Thread". The marketing department is considering launching a new label with this name... what do you think?

I'll see your Collector Car Market............ and raise you an entire economy... I'm all in.

Personally, I think a HUGE part of our whole economy it connected at the hip to the housing market. I have been "studying", on a daily basis, what has been happening to the economy over the last 12-18 months. Out here in Kal-E-Fornya we have been tiding the home equity wave for so long that it has ended up ona rocky shore. Here's my perception of what has happened (short version) over the last 5-7 years:


People bought houses that were at the absolute limit (or beyond their limit) of what they could afford.
They speculated that the house would increase in value (which it did), and they borrowed against it / refinanced it (with neg. amort loand and adjustables) to pull more cash out, live high on the hog, keep up with the Jones'.
Home values kept going up, so the cycle not only repeated itself, it accelerated itself. If you could make 20%, or 50% on a house, why not flip it and go big --- I know people who sold their house every 1-2 years just so they cold invest in a bigger house and make more net $$$.
When the bubble burst, with adjustable rate mortgages increasing payment amounts and interest only loans kicking in the principal payment requirement, homeowners get in trouble en mass.What I see in the disposable income brackets is that the category of people who have real money are OK, and those who have been living on fiat money are in trouble. (The definition of real money in this scenario is someone who has equity in their home that goes beyond what increases have transpired in the last few years, and who has a debt-to-income ratio that is not out of control... not someone who has "Big" money.) People who have a stable job or retirement income that will allow them to live comfortably, those who have their kids already out of college or have the tuition planned out in advance, or those who have made money and saved it over the years are all in good shape. The majority of this category is in the mid to latter age bracket.

What I have personally seen is what I call the "middle of the market disappear"... not necessarily in cars, but in the whole economy. The "high end" products in almost every category I have studied seem to be doing well, or at least better than the "mid-market products. Sales of $60 bottles of wine have not dropped in percentage points aws much as $12 bottles; the same goes with bicycles, hot tubs, boats and other categories I have looked at. I guess it can be said that "those who have money will continue to have it and are not as afraid to spend it as those who don't". I think the hardest hit are young families who "got into the game" at the tail end of the real estate boom. In my business they have all but evaporated from the retail scene and, if they are not buying or investing, other segments of the economy are suffering as well. It's a domino effect and I don't see it changing soon enough. All economic trends are cyclical, and I don't think this one will be eny different. I do, however, this current downward trand we are in will be much more prolonged than any we have seen in recent times.

Have a happy, cheery day :yes:


Well said...........

Neither... and both. This is a multi-purpose wax that can be used on the tip to reduce friction and increase the velocity of the spark. We have recorded it with a pseudonanomicrometer with amazing results. Since we now have it available in correct factory factory colors many are using it to cover imperfections in engine and component paint. Out new formula, Spark Plug Wax II, has been tested to hold up to over 2000 degrees (F) so we know it has long lasting results. The problem at this point is in application because you have to use high heat to get it to the correct consistancy. But, by far, the most widely known application is still for those have a tendency to cross-thread anything from spark plugs to bolts. Had we known this in the beginning we would have come up with a different name, like "Easy Thread". The marketing department is considering launching a new label with this name... what do you think?

I think you are on to something very big! I can see television infomercials and thousands of credit card orders in your future now! I can see you are still doing the technical tests so I envision this product getting air time on Paul Harvey too. With the use of your product I can also see prices at Barret/Jackson going even higher...as in "the skies the limit". Let me know when you go public with your stock!

We are getting ready to have a Board of Directors meeting in late October. We are looking for a new Board member... interested?

Dang it! Now I have to choose between hunting season and becoming a guaranteed multimillionaire.

[quote=1969 RS/SS DROPTOP;851530]I have yet to drive my concourse restored rs/ss convertible therefore its still brandnew in the wrapper so to speak but im sure ill get it out one day, quote]


I'm sorry, but that is so sad :sad:. I just can't understand owning a nice car and not driving it. Believe me, I like to look at my car but after a while, that excitement wears off. I think the most fun is in working on them and driving them, seeing the expressions on people's faces as their heads snap backward to catch a glimpse as you pass by, followed by looking at them. Not driving your car is like putting an eagle in a cage or like placing a bowl of ice cream in front of a kid and telling him not to eat it - just sit there and look at it, doesn't it look delicious. I could see if the intent was to put it in a museum for future generations to appreciate but c'mon People - you're not going to live forever so get out and drive your cars and have fun and don't cry if it get's a chip in the paint!!!

We are getting ready to have a Board of Directors meeting in late October. We are looking for a new Board member... interested?

Funny, I don't remember getting that memo - is there an overthrow of the currect Pyramid Scheme Investors Board underway :mad:

BTW - I have a copy of the secret new anaerobic* wax formula - so don't try to weasel me out of this growing ponzi, or I'll spill the beans :p
* = I can't imagine it's a secret that all previous formulas were aerobic is it :confused:

I haven't seen the market for well optioned and completed Camaro's drop all that much around here in the popular listings. The cars worth buying as an investment are still showing fairly stable price points, but I agree the past escallation of prices has tapered off.
I have seen many more parts, and some projects, showing up on "craigslist" and the other local sites. These parts are often sold quickly if reasonably priced. Those asking big $$$ for some parts, like those $2500 12-Bolts, are finding it hard to unload them unless someone really needs it.
I have a feeling some of these sales are being prompted by a need for ready cash to meet expenses, judging by the areas of the sales and my observations at some of the locations when checking out some of these. This would fit into the effect of the downturn in the present economy and the need for some locally to meet expenses by divesting of non-necessary assets.

Prices are definitely down here in Texas, I would guess 10-15%, I surf eBay and Craigslist all the time looking for that next "deal", and I have been VERY tempted in the last few months to get another one. The only thing stopping me is the seven motorcycles in my garage! Seriously, I got out at just the right time, little over a year ago, before the values started dropping. Hopefully, I will get another Camaro by next spring, at the very first "hint" of the prices going back up, I'm going to jump back in!!!!!

Funny, I don't remember getting that memo...

BTW - I have a copy of the secret new anaerobic* wax formula - so don't try to weasel me out of this growing ponzi, or I'll spill the beans :p....

I sent that memo via the U.S mail... hope it didn't fall intot he wrong hands. As for your copy of the formula, please read section 7, paragraph 3 of the by-laws of your contract. You are under strict orders not to divulge the contents... remember, Novus Ordo Seclorum.

....at the very first "hint" of the prices going back up, I'm going to jump back in!!!!!

Is your crystal ball for rent, or are you keeping it all to yourself?

Is your crystal ball for rent, or are you keeping it all to yourself?

Everything is for rent, for the right price!!! Seriously, between this website, Belair Bob and what I see online, I've got a pretty good gauge on the Camaro market!!!!

Prices (asking anyway) seems as strong as ever here at the Auto Fair in Charlotte NC today. However I didn't see many "Sold" signs nor many cars that weren't base/clone type cars. Maybe Saturday will bring out the good stuff.

Prices are definitely down here in Texas, I would guess 10-15%, I surf eBay and Craigslist all the time looking for that next "deal", and I have been VERY tempted in the last few months to get another

I often look at E-Joke,And most of the "high dollar" or "Restored cars" car on there also say "Needs A/C hooked up" or "Needs some tuning" or the best "Needs a little finishing" Anything over the 25,000-30,000.00 Nobody is gonna want a "Project". Unless its a pace car or a Z.

The buyers are now setting the price. Stubborn sellers that won’t budge on their price are not selling their cars.

Credit is tighter, the economy is weaker, and the demand for collector cars has decreased. With all of the adjustable rate mortgages resetting in the next few months many new homeowners, unable to refinance because of the credit squeeze, will be forced to sell their car(s) to make the bigger payments on their house.

If you are in the market for a collector car bring cash and make low-ball offers. :thumbsup:
And always remember......Sumptus censum ne superet. :yes:

So the point of this Thread is ............ Slapping on SS badges on Plain Camaros adds hundreds if not thousands of dollars to what you originally paid ? ?

It hard when someone thinks they know it all and see's a SS emblem or RS emblem and right away they say .. thats what it is. My friend bought a 69 Shell for 5500 .. but it came with a 396 motor .. it had RS headlights but nothing on the trim tag said it was an RS .. the Person who he sold it too was saying .. it was a True RS.. I just turned around and walked away ..

Then again I could be wrong .. cause I dont know much about 69's.... ! But I know for sure it did'nt have the lower Reverse Tail lights on the back .

would anything on the trim tag say it was a true RS. I am not an expert by any means , but I dont think so

The buyers are now setting the price. Stubborn sellers that won’t budge on their price are not selling their cars.

Credit is tighter, the economy is weaker, and the demand for collector cars has decreased. With all of the adjustable rate mortgages resetting in the next few months many new homeowners, unable to refinance because of the credit squeeze, will be forced to sell their car(s) to make the bigger payments on their house.

If you are in the market for a collector car bring cash and make low-ball offers. :thumbsup:
And always remember......Sumptus censum ne superet. :yes:


YUP......Well put. The bottom has not yet been seen either, but its coming. I just gave away a 68 BB convertible, something I thought would never happen. If you want or need to sell you have to take whatever REAL money is available. On the brighter side I'm looking to score a few camaros in the near future .........Good deals are coming :beers:



JMO of course.......



bob

Like I have said before, Why does Chip and Boyd get 100,000.00+ for there cars? Not because they are SS or Z's or RS;s It because they are done RIGHT!
Any car done with attention to the details and quality work is going to bring the bucks, If I (did not do this my self) had the money to buy a true SS #'s car for 50,000.00 or a plane jane done with a 454, TKO 600,A/C,12 bolt, 4 wheel disks and all the other goodies for 50,000.00,Yea I'd go for the restomod!

I am NOT a car dealer, I own a successful business that has nothing to do with cars. I am however a car collector by hobby. I currently own about a dozen antique cars three of which are camaros. I remember the days not too long ago when corvettes brought big money and camaros and chevelles and etc. were 3000.00 cars no matter how nice they were. I do believe the entire collector car market is extremely over-priced and out of whack. I attribute this greatly to what I call the "Barrett-Jackson" effect. People see these cars bringing crazy money on TV and figure that there rusted out junk must be worth $10K if that fixed up one brought $80k . I think the cars that are going to take the nose-dive in value are all the restored and cloned cars out there that are currently bringing 20-30K. These are the cars that people buy that can't afford the real deal cars. These are also the buyers that are going to be effected by housing markets and etc. Personally a few years ago I started selling all such cars in my collection and now only buy original, unrestored, cars with all paperwork, protectoplates and etc. I do not buy these cars for resale or to turn a profit, I buy them more for a long-term investment like a retirement acct. Some of these cars I have had for 20+yrs or more and the profit would be astounding if I did sale, but I am not interested because the REAL unrestored originals go UP and UP no matter what the Stock Market or Housing trend of the day is. You may have to hunt hard and pay a good price but I think these cars are the only safe bet in car collecting no matter the Make or Model.

Again, Well said.......

88 IROC, purchased for $2000. Drove it to death 3 years, cheap painted it ($1200), rebuilt roller motor ($2500 parts), then sold it for $5000.

89 Plain, purchased $2000. Son totaled it 2 years later. Got $2000 from insurance.

68 Plain - Could be SS (speedo cable on pass side of column, M21, had 12 bolt). Paid $12,500 and put $6000 in it. Asking $20,000 to keep lowballers off track, but will take $18,500 for it. :D anyone?!?!

67 RS/SS Convertible, just paid $12,000 for it. Rust bucket so far (from Tennessee), but will do complete pans and see where I stand.

My observations: I have "sold" the 68 once already, got a $1000 deposit, then the guy refinancing his house to buy it bailed out...couldn't raise enough after his appraisal. The next 3 buyers all failed to get the "preapproved" loan that their banks promised them. All So Cal bigger banks, and no interest in loaning guys money for a collector car. Several offers close, but also came down to people trying to pull money out of their houses in a terrible housing and finance market. Not smart IMHO.

Now I have this 18-20 year old kid on the hook that his credit union said no to the full amount, but his mom might say yes and cover the balance he needs. Actually a great respectful kid, hope he ends up with my baby, someone that appreciates a classic and I believe will take care of it.

Clearly cash is tight now with the housing market here. None of my friends or neighbor are buying new toys. But like my good friend Barry Meguiar (of polish/wax fame) says, guys like us don't care about the housing market or gas prices, we just want to drive good looking fast cars. We are car guys (and gals).

-shoe

88 IROC, purchased for $2000. Drove it to death 3 years, cheap painted it ($1200), rebuilt roller motor ($2500 parts), then sold it for $5000.

89 Plain, purchased $2000. Son totaled it 2 years later. Got $2000 from insurance.

68 Plain - Could be SS (speedo cable on pass side of column, M21, had 12 bolt). Paid $12,500 and put $6000 in it. Asking $20,000 to keep lowballers off track, but will take $18,500 for it. :D anyone?!?!

67 RS/SS Convertible, just paid $12,000 for it. Rust bucket so far (from Tennessee), but will do complete pans and see where I stand.

My observations: I have "sold" the 68 once already, got a $1000 deposit, then the guy refinancing his house to buy it bailed out...couldn't raise enough after his appraisal. The next 3 buyers all failed to get the "preapproved" loan that their banks promised them. All So Cal bigger banks, and no interest in loaning guys money for a collector car. Several offers close, but also came down to people trying to pull money out of their houses in a terrible housing and finance market. Not smart IMHO.

Now I have this 18-20 year old kid on the hook that his credit union said no to the full amount, but his mom might say yes and cover the balance he needs. Actually a great respectful kid, hope he ends up with my baby, someone that appreciates a classic and I believe will take care of it.

Clearly cash is tight now with the housing market here. None of my friends or neighbor are buying new toys. But like my good friend Barry Meguiar (of polish/wax fame) says, guys like us don't care about the housing market or gas prices, we just want to drive good looking fast cars. We are car guys (and gals).

-shoe

In every instance, with any type of investment strategy, you could have gotten a minimum of 5 - 9% in the market without hedging (well, up until present), thus increasing your asset base. Instead you've lost money in each instance except the car that was wrecked, and going to lose on both the '68 and the convertible.

Not too good; maybe Barry McGuiar will donate to your car guy fund.

In every instance, with any type of investment strategy, you could have gotten a minimum of 5 - 9% in the market without hedging (well, up until present), thus increasing your asset base. Instead you've lost money in each instance except the car that was wrecked, and going to lose on both the '68 and the convertible.


Hey Camullet, where do you get those figures? What kind of smart investing have you done? Just asking, you seem like the expert. Your profile says unemployed.

Hey Camullet, where do you get those figures? What kind of smart investing have you done? Just asking, you seem like the expert. Your profile says unemployed.

5-9% is conservative for a non-sophisticated investor. Look at your 401k, if you have one... They are designed to positively weather all but the the worst economic environments, and they're anywhere from 3-7ish% for the current year.

Apparently your investment strategy mimics the one I initially quoted, under which you lose money.

As far as my employment status-- I was so smart that I no longer have to work.

Don't fall for camullet he's just trying to stir up conflict. Do a search for his other posts...

Jeff, I might be interested in your '68, what engine/trans does it have in it? Can you send me any pics? Thanks.

5-9% is conservative for a non-sophisticated investor. Look at your 401k, if you have one... They are designed to positively weather all but the the worst economic environments, and they're anywhere from 3-7ish% for the current year.

Apparently your investment strategy mimics the one I initially quoted, under which you lose money.

As far as my employment status-- I was so smart that I no longer have to work.


In other words..He is on some kind of disability.

5-9% is conservative for a non-sophisticated investor. Look at your 401k, if you have one... They are designed to positively weather all but the the worst economic environments, and they're anywhere from 3-7ish% for the current year.

Apparently your investment strategy mimics the one I initially quoted, under which you lose money.

As far as my employment status-- I was so smart that I no longer have to work.

About 401Ks, that is not true. It depends on the choices available and the individual's choices made. Where was Eron employees stock, do you think? Hardly bad economic times.

Since you are unemployed and your age is not given, maybe you are on SS and spend all your time here pontificating. How about your european cars? Did they make the money for you?

I thought I asked a legitimate question. What kind of smart investing have you done? I want to be smart like you so I no longer have to work or make bad choices. You are right, I dont have a 401K.

I just got back from a weekend at the autofair, and I found it interesting indeed. As far as car prices on camaros It was clear the buyers were focusing the 15-20k range. Alot of the project cars left on the trailers they came in on, but that stands to make sense because I saw some unrealistic prices for some p.o.s shells!

We scouted out about 7-8 camaros that were tagged under 20k on friday morning, and alot were in the 20k - 40k range. A few seemed to sale but not what was expected I think. I spoke with alot of the camaro owners and they themselves seemed irked about the lack of attention from buyers they were getting. One guy had 2 camaros there that were nice restorations and legit priced 22k-24k imo. He was parked beside a guy with a nice looking camaro, but not as nice as there that was going for around 20k. The 20k car sold 1st day, and the other 2 were not even given offers.

I think the price of camaros is dependent on the buyer, granted the market has a big impact as far as luxery spending -vs- savings go. But it seems unless someone is looking for a specific camaro those restored ones are getting passed over for the cars on the rung just below in the restoration quality range. The daily driver quality seems to be selling alot better than the recent restoration version. This is just my opinion but it seems so around here.

I think that sounds legit. I know my 69 got more notice at car cruises before it was painted as opposed to after, and I think the big reason for that was due to the fact that it looked attainable to a lot of people. People used to ask me all the time if I wanted to sell it (they still do, but don't seem as serious).
It's interesting to see this thread now. I was telling my brother about how ridiculously high priced the first gens are these days, and told him about how a few months ago I did a search on ebay and the only Camaros I could find for under 10k were just shells or rolling chassis (and usually rusted out at that). To prove my point, I jumped on ebay and did a search, and we found a lot of running cars under 10k. So I'm not sure about the entire environment, but it looks to me like the bottom-rung cars (and those the next rung up) have come down at the very least.

Looks to me like you need to go top notch or not. Their was a sweet restomod on ebay that was bid up to $87,100 and didn't hit reserve. He may need to rethink that. The middle ground cars seem to be fizzling a little. The Real Estate market is affecting the value of toys bottom line.

Looks to me like you need to go top notch or not. Their was a sweet restomod on ebay that was bid up to $87,100 and didn't hit reserve. He may need to rethink that. The middle ground cars seem to be fizzling a little. The Real Estate market is affecting the value of toys bottom line.

I assume your saying 20k plus cars are middle ground on up, because around here if its under 20 it sells in a minute, but just go over the 20k by even 1k and people will offer under 20k or walk away. Granted this is for the most part, as I said earlier; "unless soneone is looking that specifc car setup then those full restorations are being passed over due to price tags".

1969 base camaro badged and painted to look like a z28 ... bought on craigslist for 9,500. I changed if from column shift to floor shift, recovered interior, droped in a crate motor and sold it for $22,000. I wasnt planning to sell it but was stopped on the street and could not refuse the offer. After going thru my recipts I made a tidy $6,500 profit and re-invested in an unrestored LM1 I also found on Craigslist. This one is fully documented with numerious options.

During this same time period I picked up a 1969 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed vert that I also turned for a nice profit. I am also selling a 1969 four bolt L78 motor that I should make a little cash on as well.

My goal is to continue to re-invest until I have made enough profit to buy the car I have wanted since I was a snot nosed kid... 1969 pace car. In my brain... this is much more of a hobby than an investment. Some guys will drop 5k on golf equipment and dont worry about their ROI when they decide to up grade... Bottom line.... life is too short not to have a hobby you are passionate about... rather you make a buck or not.

About 401Ks, that is not true. It depends on the choices available and the individual's choices made. Where was Eron employees stock, do you think? Hardly bad economic times.

Since you are unemployed and your age is not given, maybe you are on SS and spend all your time here pontificating. How about your european cars? Did they make the money for you?


Gary,

Enron was 2001, prior to Sarbanes-Oxley, and various other accounting changes that make that kind of fleecing no longer possible. I don't know if anyone told you, but it's almost 2008... Even aggressive 401k options are of very low risk; you don't buy one stock when you pick and investment strategy, you pick a scientifically-derived portfolio.

Everyone involved with retirement investing learned an important lesson between the years 2001 and 2003, and if you read my post, all 401k investment strategies are configured to earn a reasonable return in all but the worst economic environments. Perhaps you should pay closer attention... Regarding 401k funds managers-- If you don't realize a reasonable return for your investors, you're out of a job-- And those jobs don't pay as if you're sweeping a floor or flipping burgers.

I don't need to answer to you, but you're a fool if you think that losing money on a Camaro can be compared to a reasonable return in the market. As far as European cars, that's where the smart money is going-- In case you haven't noticed, 10 mpg, fake woodgrain, bogus trim tags, unsafe, and poorly-balanced is no longer in vogue.

I'm just providing a voice of wisdom, my friends...

my 401k can't leave posi rubber marks down my street.... Is this a car group or did I click on the Charles Schwab forum??

I assume your saying 20k plus cars are middle ground on up, because around here if its under 20 it sells in a minute, but just go over the 20k by even 1k and people will offer under 20k or walk away. Granted this is for the most part, as I said earlier; "unless soneone is looking that specifc car setup then those full restorations are being passed over due to price tags".
I would agree with that. By high end I mean full modded cars tastefully done. Of course the rare numbers matching cars are always good.

I know this thread is about value,,,, but damn, when I was a kid in the '60's we would ask 'how fast is it?' or 'what'll it do?'. Now the first question from a stranger is 'how much is it worth?' Terrible! Listen up; maybe I won the lottery when I turned 21. I was 'of age'. I no longer had to wait and plan for my car. I was legal. Went right out and ordered it. Knew just what I wanted too. All us kids had a good idea what we wanted even though the internet had yet to be invented and information was hard to come by. Hell, the calculator hadn't been invented! Us kids didn't know you could get a COPO. I wanted a 427 so I bought a L88 the year before I ordered my 69. To make the swap easier I ordered an L78 with a matching TH400 and what was referred to as a 'high impact' rear-end with 4:10's and a posi. At the last minute I changed my mind about the color and ordered hugger orange. So much for red, I was going for it. The rest of the stuff like SS and RS were just along for the ride. I wanted power. AKA Fast!
To this day 'worth' means nothing to me. Worth means less enjoyment of the car. Insurance cost more. I can't take my eyes off of it so I can't leave it in a parking lot. Damn! But it's my car and I'm gonna use it! (just don't drive it in the rain) Been messing with the running gear. Changed to a Street Fighter converter and some other stuff and have been drag racing it. The car is not insured going down the strip but neither am I! I don't care. I want to finally, after nearly 39 years, be able to tell people that it's fast and not make excuses that it's setup for the street. If they would just ask,,,,,,

I'm just happy that people can get out what they put into a nice classic car these days. I recall when (basically several years ago) people would put $10k into a car that they paid $3k for and then have to sell it for $6,500. I'm glad those days are gone. Unless it was purely for investment, (and I wanted my "401k" to burn some posi marks down the road ===========) I personally could not justify spending over $20k on a muscle car. At least not with a family, future college, grandkid, house and retirement to all plan for. I think for the majority the $20k and under expense can be justfied as well and is the reason those cars are selling quicker. Heck, with all respect, why spend triple the price for a car that has a Z28 badge on the side but doesn't run, handle, feel or look as good as many of the modified "pro-touring type" Camaros. No offense to anyone owning a Z28 as you are lucky, have a very, very sweet car and also a worthy investment. Many owners choose to drive these cars and enjoy them and others prefer to park them and trailer to an occasional car show and enjoy the experience of showing it off. However, I've noticed these days many owners of the rare cars are afraid to drive their "investments" which for me would just spoil all the fun. I find it interesting to discuss the monetary value of my ride but the relentless passion of the hobby holds more "value" than the investment ever could. What I mean is the countless hours upside down skinning your knuckles, drag racing a friend (or an "enemy"), shifting the gears, going out and feeling the difference that all your hard work and brain power resulted in. Maybe some day I will sell my car when I can't drive it anymore cause I'm unable or for some unforseen reason I can't work and need to pay bills. That's when I'll really want to know what it's worth. In the meantime, it's worth a hole lot - just ask my wife. ;)

........
I'm just providing a voice of wisdom, my friends...

It is hard to listen to your wisdom when you are talking from your Anus, Nebraska.
See, that tells me you don't even take yourself serious. I am sure there are many seasoned investors here that have done very well. Most just don't need to talk about it.

When you talk down like you have been who wants to listen. Lighten up and become a real member here. Any way, what about the euro cars you know ao well. How many you got?

In every instance, with any type of investment strategy, you could have gotten a minimum of 5 - 9% in the market without hedging (well, up until present), thus increasing your asset base. Instead you've lost money in each instance except the car that was wrecked, and going to lose on both the '68 and the convertible.

Not too good; maybe Barry McGuiar will donate to your car guy fund.

5-9% is conservative for a non-sophisticated investor. Look at your 401k, if you have one... They are designed to positively weather all but the the worst economic environments, and they're anywhere from 3-7ish% for the current year.

Apparently your investment strategy mimics the one I initially quoted, under which you lose money.

As far as my employment status-- I was so smart that I no longer have to work.

Gary,

Enron was 2001, prior to Sarbanes-Oxley, and various other accounting changes that make that kind of fleecing no longer possible. I don't know if anyone told you, but it's almost 2008... Even aggressive 401k options are of very low risk; you don't buy one stock when you pick and investment strategy, you pick a scientifically-derived portfolio.

Everyone involved with retirement investing learned an important lesson between the years 2001 and 2003, and if you read my post, all 401k investment strategies are configured to earn a reasonable return in all but the worst economic environments. Perhaps you should pay closer attention... Regarding 401k funds managers-- If you don't realize a reasonable return for your investors, you're out of a job-- And those jobs don't pay as if you're sweeping a floor or flipping burgers.

I don't need to answer to you, but you're a fool if you think that losing money on a Camaro can be compared to a reasonable return in the market. As far as European cars, that's where the smart money is going-- In case you haven't noticed, 10 mpg, fake woodgrain, bogus trim tags, unsafe, and poorly-balanced is no longer in vogue.

I'm just providing a voice of wisdom, my friends...


Well judging by the state of your ride, I'll pass on your investment advice thank-you:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/member.php?u=33333

"As far as European cars, that's where the smart money is going-- In case you haven't noticed, 10 mpg, fake woodgrain, bogus trim tags, unsafe, and poorly-balanced is no longer in vogue."

Yeah I could of bought half a dozen euro cars for about the price of a nice restoration camaro @ the auto fair. It looked like triumph, and mg owners were almost giving away their euro pride compared to american muscle prices. So I dunno how that is where the money is at, unless your selling in quantity not quality.

De-Value?
I am going to sit down and figure out how much I "lost" on new vehicles I have purchased over the years... On second thought, I better not..:o :wacko:

Wow I just took a gander at Calmullet's ride.... I guess retirement is simply a state of mind!

and his house behind the car...

! I don't care. I want to finally, after nearly 39 years, be able to tell people that it's fast and not make excuses that it's setup for the street. If they would just ask,,,,,,[/QUOTE]

Fred, time to lighten things up here a bit...is your car fast?

68RS-SS...in your last sentence I think you meant to say "hole shot" didn't you?

I think this subject has just about burned up enough people that it is beginning to look like the trees that were left standing in the recent forest fires we had.

Dearhunter, it's too heavy for much luck with being fast like many guys here. I'm doing the best I can to get the car to its' reasonable potential but realistically that potential is not that of a race car. (60' times are around 1.6 right now) It has the 8 track still on the console and full upholstery, like almost all street cars. The overdrive adds weight. So does stuff like the air horns and unused cruise control. But what the hell? It's mine. I don't care what it's worth. But lordy, even the local track involves running a gauntlet. People step out in front of the car to stop it to take its picture. (yep, last weekend) And that was with the ugly race tires and wheels.
If I sounded too 'heavy' I'm sorry. But wishing to return to the old days is an increasingly common trait the older we all get. And that, I submit, is the very reason that drives our hobby.

Camullet... Why exactly do you frequent this site ? Do you have a Camaro or do you just come here to antagonize ?

" In case you haven't noticed, 10 mpg, fake woodgrain, bogus trim tags, unsafe, and poorly-balanced is no longer in vogue. "

I assume that comment is pointed towards Camaro and other American Muscle. Why exactly are you here if these cars are so bad ? If you don't have or like Camaro's, why don't you just go somewhere other than this site ? Is your goal just to annoy people ?

sold My 68 SS last spring and now in Sept I see My friends trying to sell their Camaros and other Muscle Cars and they just aren't selling. The Housing market here in The Greater Daytona area is really bad and alot of foreclosures are in process. I know People that bought Houses and Muscle Cars at top dollar prices and financed the Heck out of them and can't unload them at the expected "Flip that investment Price". I am not sure how the rest of the Country is but here it is looking bad for the middle class and very good for the Upper class when it comes to Cars and Homes. I won't say what I sold My 68SS for but I don't think it would bring the same money now at least in this area of the Country

5-9% is conservative for a non-sophisticated investor. Look at your 401k, if you have one... They are designed to positively weather all but the the worst economic environments, and they're anywhere from 3-7ish% for the current year.

Apparently your investment strategy mimics the one I initially quoted, under which you lose money.

As far as my employment status-- I was so smart that I no longer have to work.

Hey MR. Camullet....You happen to live in Michigan...I think I known who you are...Your a big F**d Bronco fan......"67" Right? :yes:

C'mon Be honest...I won't blow your cover:thumbsup:


Dan

Dearhunter, it's too heavy for much luck with being fast like many guys here. I'm doing the best I can to get the car to its' reasonable potential but realistically that potential is not that of a race car. (60' times are around 1.6 right now) It has the 8 track still on the console and full upholstery, like almost all street cars. The overdrive adds weight. So does stuff like the air horns and unused cruise control. But what the hell? It's mine. I don't care what it's worth. But lordy, even the local track involves running a gauntlet. People step out in front of the car to stop it to take its picture. (yep, last weekend) And that was with the ugly race tires and wheels.
If I sounded too 'heavy' I'm sorry. But wishing to return to the old days is an increasingly common trait the older we all get. And that, I submit, is the very reason that drives our hobby.

I just thought the way you ended your post you were wishing someone would ask 'is it fast' rather than 'whats it worth' soooo I made your dream come true and did ask 'is it fast'. You and I both know it is faster than someones car and not as fast as someone elses car. Is 'elses' even a word? All I was trying to do was lighten up the mood here before someone started shooting electrons at each other.

But it was funny!

But it was funny!

I know. Glad I read it before it was zapped. Come on Dennis. It wasn't that bad.;)

Good thing some one got to see it!

It was funny he has to admit that.:yes:

Is :beers:'s car a firebird with the nose and rear cut off. Just a honest question.

67for/me

!
68RS-SS...in your last sentence I think you meant to say "hole shot" didn't you? That's pretty funny deerhunter!! Maybe I should have said "my car is worth a whole lot of buckshot" - with my X-wife my appreciaton for my car would have ended in me shot full of holes. However, my "new and much improved" wife is extremely supportive. Get this - it was actually her idea that I convert to rear disc brakes and she likes to ride the 1/4 mile with me a few times when we take it the local track - ya I know it hurts my ETs but the things we do for love (whoops sorry, now I'm bragging).

I think this subject has just about burned up enough people that it is beginning to look like the trees that were left standing in the recent forest fires we had. Agreed.....and too bad 'bout those fires - my home town here in New Mexico was hit several years ago by a 50,000 acre fire (caused by controlled burn the government started in 50mph winds by the way) so I know how that hurts to look at.
:mad::sad:

" In case you haven't noticed, 10 mpg, fake woodgrain, bogus trim tags, unsafe, and poorly-balanced is no longer in vogue. "

AND THATS WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THEM

I know this thread is about value,,,, but damn, when I was a kid in the '60's we would ask 'how fast is it?' or 'what'll it do?'. Now the first question from a stranger is 'how much is it worth?' Terrible! Listen up; maybe I won the lottery when I turned 21. I was 'of age'. I no longer had to wait and plan for my car. I was legal. Went right out and ordered it. Knew just what I wanted too. All us kids had a good idea what we wanted even though the internet had yet to be invented and information was hard to come by. Hell, the calculator hadn't been invented! Us kids didn't know you could get a COPO. I wanted a 427 so I bought a L88 the year before I ordered my 69. To make the swap easier I ordered an L78 with a matching TH400 and what was referred to as a 'high impact' rear-end with 4:10's and a posi. At the last minute I changed my mind about the color and ordered hugger orange. So much for red, I was going for it. The rest of the stuff like SS and RS were just along for the ride. I wanted power. AKA Fast!
To this day 'worth' means nothing to me. Worth means less enjoyment of the car. Insurance cost more. I can't take my eyes off of it so I can't leave it in a parking lot. Damn! But it's my car and I'm gonna use it! (just don't drive it in the rain) Been messing with the running gear. Changed to a Street Fighter converter and some other stuff and have been drag racing it. The car is not insured going down the strip but neither am I! I don't care. I want to finally, after nearly 39 years, be able to tell people that it's fast and not make excuses that it's setup for the street. If they would just ask,,,,,,

I like your 2 tone RS Fred it looks nice. Is it fast, how fast is it? lol

Camullet... Why exactly do you frequent this site ? Do you have a Camaro or do you just come here to antagonize ?

Camullet WISHES he owned a Camaro!
Look at his profile, he wants one so bad he took the bumpers off his 1974 Firebird in a lame attempt to fool us into believing its a Camaro.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/member.php?u=33333

Camullet, the jig is up.
From now on you will be known as "Firmullet";)