Hi all:
Any paint pros out there that can help me out???? I am painting the top of my dash. I called PPG for an enamal that is interchageable with the Ditzler #9317 lacquer (my local store doesn't mix lacquer)and they recommended PPG #9469 DAR enamel. They said it is 30% gloss. Can anyone verify this before I spend 40 bucks on a pint????? Also, is 30% gloss about right for the top of the dash????
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

What year is your car? For '69's, the top finish is a suede finish. The PPG color you referenced, 9317, has a suede finish and is correct for '69's. For 67/68's, 30% Gloss Black is correct, per Jerry MacNeish's book.

Hey Sandiego:
The car is a '68. I just want to make sure that the PPG 9469 is in fact a 30% gloss. Is there a way to somehow verify that???
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I don't know about that specific code you mentioned. My paint shop custom-mixed DDL 30% gloss (acrylic lacquer) - you can still buy that in San Diego! Codes on the paint can are:

30% Low Luster Black
DX685-350
DMA310-1200
HL-490

I used it on the firewall and underbody and I'm very satisfied with the luster level.

Just to be sure, though, 9317 would not be correct for your car. Does your paint shop have an old PPG paint chip book? On the back respective year, it lists the correct Ditzler codes for interior components. They should be able to mix enamel to those codes.

Hi Sandiego:
I checked PPG's Color Library on the web and it states that code 9317 is correct for the top of the dash for '68??????
Now I'm confused??

web page (http://autocolorlibrary.com/acl_files/chevrolet.html)

Me too. Can you still tell what type of paint you have on the dash top? 9317 has a rough "suede" type finish, not a smooth, low luster finish like 30% gloss black.

It was painted once (or twice) already by the prior owner so I have no idea what was originally on there.........

Check this page out again. I just painted my 69. The dash and rear window area should be 0 (zero) gloss. 30% gloss on the dash would reflect the sun right in your eyes. The steering column and dash face I believe for a 68 would be 30%. PPG archive people in Ohio helped me with the conversion from the old laquer formula to the new base clear formula with a flatening (flexn flat) agent. My dash and column look awsome, and accurate. Where do you see 9317 listed at 30%? I see it listed as a 0 Gloss.
Hope this helps
Jim

http://autocolorlibrary.com/cgi-bin/search/searchpic.pl?1968-chevrolet-pg02.jpg

[ 04-22-2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: GMJim ]

Here's where I'm personally confused -

Per Jerry MacNeish's '69 Definitive Fact book, it states (page 204 in my edition):

- Dashboard, Top 1967-68: 30% Gloss Paint Finish
- Dashboard, Top 1969: Suede paint finish

Per the PPG Chart:
- Flat Colors "0" Gloss: Upper Instrument Panel...(this is the dashboard top). For Black, this is PPG Code 9317.

Interestingly, it notes this for both '68's and '69's, which is inconsistant with MacNiesh's book.

I have used 9317 and can state that this is a zero gloss paint with a suede texture and appearance wise, looks just like the original.

Therefore, the question - which is correct for a '68? Suede finish (PPG 9317), or 30% Gloss??
I don't know - does anyone??

sandiegoz28
With all due respect to MacNeish, I have found some of the info in his book to be argueably inaccurate.
dschribs
I would go with the zero gloss as stated in the PPG chart. I did, and it looks perfect. I feel 30% gloss is too shiny for a dash top. The only way to make absolutely sure, would be to paint two pieces of metal, one 30% and one zero. Place them on the dash of your daily driver on a sunny day and see if you can see? :D

Jim

San Deigo:
You said you used the 30% gloss on your firewall and underbody. Did you also use it on the top of the dash?? Do you think it would be too reflective or it would be ok? I don't necessarily need the "exact" factory sheen on the dash but I would like somehting that looks ok and doesn't reflect the sun. Classic Industries sells a spray paint they call "eggshell black" for the top of the dash. (it's not "flat black" because they offer that as well)I would think that eggshell finish would be about 30% gloss no???????
D. Schribert
'68 Camaro

This subject is something that has also confused me for sometime. I would also like to know what the correct gloss is for the lower dash and upper door pieces? Does anyone know what the correct answer is?
Thanks Steve

Here's what I used:

- Firewall/Underbody: 30% Gloss Black
- Glove Box/dash area: 60% Gloss Black
- Top of Dash: Flat "0" Gloss (9317)
(Also used around the lower rear window)

Personally, I'm with GMJim and I would use the 9317, as it looks really cool and very factory looking. PPG is probably correct in this case. My car ('69) had original paint in all these areas and the re-painted areas matches the original from what I can tell. (I had an originally factory painted dark green firewall, but thats a different story....)

I can e-mail you a picture of the underbody/firewall if you like.

Ds, I'm the original owner of my 68 and the dash top is about 20-30 degree gloss,it is not flat (0) gloss. These areas were sprayed with lacquer, so temperatures,humidity,production line haste were all factors in the gloss level. Much of the confusion on these low gloss colors comes from repeated cleaning and polishing of these areas, which will raise the gloss of low luster colors.If you do not want to spend the money on a pint of mix you can use NAPA "TEC" line spray can, called Underhood black it is just right,dries quickly and holds up well. Just a throw you a little curve, many parts under the car were originally painted with tar paint, the body men used enamel thinner or gasoline to reduce it! That was in the days before OSHA was around. Hope the info will help!

OK just to confuse it even more, I have a 68 rag March production original car that I'm restoring. The difference between dash front and top is pretty obvious and the face is more like 30 to 40 degree black like a SEMS trim black and the top is 0 degree and now very rough texture. I've had pros argue MacNiesh got the inner front fender wells too flat and I know he got the heater box wrong, so go figure.

Arno

Oramac:
Any problems with glare with your 20-30% gloss dash?? If not, that's probably the way I will go since it's so readily available, doesn't need to be mixed and I can use a rattle can since it's such a small area.
D. Schribert
'68 Convertible

Gentleman
Why would you question the PPG color library chart??? This chart specifically names all of the interior areas that were painted and with what color and what gloss factor! This is the real thing, the bible! People go out and look at cars that are 30 plus years old and think the car is accurately painted without questioning the owner as to how he arrived at that color choice. I saw 10 different shades of Fathom Green out there before I called PPG and asked for the formula and got the correct color. After painting my car I borrowed a original 69 flat hood that was taken off a friends car when it was 2 weeks old and stored in his basement. We polished it and put it next to my car and it was BANG ON! Trust the chart and be happy. Zero gloss is NOT FLAT, it's ZERO Gloss. My dash is zero gloss but it's not flat. I can't explain it any better than that.

dschribs
You can buy a pint of the good stuff and have it reduced and hardener added and put in a rattle can right at your paint store. Most automotive paint stores will do this for a surprisingly reasonable price. The only drawback to this is it won't have too much of a shelf life with the hardener in it. Buy the paint when you are ready to paint the dash.
Jim

dschribs, no problem at all with glare, the dash pad is more glossy than the dash top anyway especially after i slather on the low gloss armor-all. seems to be alot of confusion about gloss levels, here are justa few , semi-flat, low-gloss, eggshell, satin etc. Remember these cars are what I called slopped-up during production. Currently there are no cars out there that are restored correctly, no one could/would do that shi**ty of a resto job as they were originally produced! Don't beat yourself up over this gloss or that gloss, spray a couple different glosses on a test piece and use the one you like.