There is a 67 advertised on ebay not to far from me and the price seems good however he makes the usual claims that never pan out. I quickly noticed his claim to the orginal M20 Saginaw and a few others that seem apparent?

What else can you find wrong with his claims?

Once I have the feedback from everone here on TC I am going to go look at the car armed with the list and hopfully more knowledgable.

I must admit he makes a good sales pitch so much so I want to believe him but something tells me to stay clear and I am worried about the guy who has no Camaro knowledge showing up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260162563922&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:MT:1

That car looks very much like the one discussed here early last year. If you do a search for "by giles" and view the hubcaps thread: Rich Pern had a car very similar to this one and may be this one.
He is very knowledgable, and if this is his old car, I would suspect it is a correct car, and that he would chime in here (or maybe via a PM) and tell you exactly what to ask the seller.

I don't recall what it sold for, but I was very interested in it when he sold it. If I wouldn't have had a full house I'd likely have it now.

beware RUSTY car alarms

he has stated several times the car has poor paint and is full of bondo covering up rust

the floors are shot, but he "sealed" them for you

remanants of welded on traction bars indicate a pounded past, making me question the condition of the drivetrain

I suspect this car had headers in its previous life(s)

it does have the correct air cleaner though ...

on the other hand all it would take is a set of rally wheels to make this currently homely gal POP

IMHO this is overpriced based on CONDITION, the 4 speed 327 - 275 may be rare, and IS a great combo but I do not think it justifies the extra $$$$

again, he has stated SEVERAL times the body is "driver" quality at best

there were nearly 1 million 1st gen camaros made, I think you could do WAY better for what he wants

That car looks very much like the one discussed here early last year. If you do a search for "by giles" and view the hubcaps thread: Rich Pern had a car very similar to this one and may be this one.
He is very knowledgable, and if this is his old car, I would suspect it is a correct car, and that he would chime in here (or maybe via a PM) and tell you exactly what to ask the seller.

I don't recall what it sold for, but I was very interested in it when he sold it. If I wouldn't have had a full house I'd likely have it now.

did the search, it is the same numbers on the body tag

all the previous pics are removed, IF they are the same the FIRM price previously was $20k

Yep, that's one of my old cars.

Here's the skinny, at least when I owned it. It is a very solid car, the underside is near perfect (for a first gen) with no undercoating. The trunk pan needs replacing for show quality, and the shock towers have had some slight rust repair done beoreI got the car. The quarter panel wheel well lips have some bondo (which I think he points out in the ad). The only thing I can see that he did not point out is that at some point someone "added" four round corner lights on each fender/quarter similar to 68/69's that I removed, fixed and had spot painted, and the shock tower repairs. The pin stripe is the stick on type. The only incorrect item was the shifter as he points out. Also, as you can see by the red paint around the wheel covers, I had 67 dog dish caps on it.

As far as the good things, this 67 was one of the straightest driving first-gen's that I have ever had, and started/ran well, even on the interstate. It is a fun and robust L30/M20 car.

I actually have been watching it the three times he had it on ebay, and it has not gone above 14k. He bought it about a year and a half ago from me for 18k, when prices were at the max. In today's market, I don't think it is worth much more than 14-16k, unless you really wanted a L30/M20 and in time, it should go back up to the +/- 20 region. This is one of the nicer project/drivers L30?m20's out there.

I was actually hoping I could snag it back for 14-15 or so! :)

Here's why, one of my fav pics:

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/richmatt.jpg


Here's some of the car and the shock towers when I sold it:
(notice the light on the rear quarter, and the shock tower repair on the shot with the spare tire in it)

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l301.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l302.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l302a.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l303.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l303a.jpg


Let me know if you want any other pics, I have plenty. This is a real L30/M20, with all original and born with driveline. If you are in his ballpark, then I think you will be happy with the car if you are looking for a driver. If you are expecting a survivor, or show car, then you might not be as happy.


Buzz me on the cell if you want:
504-913-3618

Rich

This is a very cool story and now you know it's a true car and alot of history on it. Now all you have to do is get the price right, nice driver, good luck.

beware RUSTY car alarms
he has stated several times the car has poor paint and is full of bondo covering up rust
the floors are shot, but he "sealed" them for you
remanants of welded on traction bars indicate a pounded past, making me question the condition of the drivetrain
I suspect this car had headers in its previous life(s)
it does have the correct air cleaner though ...
on the other hand all it would take is a set of rally wheels to make this currently homely gal POP
IMHO this is overpriced based on CONDITION, the 4 speed 327 - 275 may be rare, and IS a great combo but I do not think it justifies the extra $$$$
again, he has stated SEVERAL times the body is "driver" quality at best
there were nearly 1 million 1st gen camaros made, I think you could do WAY better for what he wants


Jim,
You are WAY off on this one. The rear showed no evidence of "welded" traction bars. Yes, the car had some bondo, but far from massive amounts.

Floors are in better than 90% of the cars out there!

See picture above for shot of car with rally's.

Here are some pics of the floor pans with no work done to them:

http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l304.jpg
http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l305.jpg

The only welded on parts on the 12 bolt is the correct L30/M20 radius rod
http://www.69lm1.com/pics/67l306.jpg

Again, these cars are not for everyone, if you are a BB guy, then you might not see the value. I personally like the unusual and sleeper look of these cars, and they are way less common than a SS350. I have no dog in this hunt, in fact, after the third time on ebay, and no one discussing the car here or camaros.org, I was kinda hoping to scoop the car back up.

I think prices are down, and less people are buying. I think I did get a fair price at 18k a year and a half ago, and I do agree that in today's market, 20k is high, but the car is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

But:
http://www.69lm1.com/pics/lm1srock.gif

:)

Rich

I quickly noticed his claim to the orginal M20 Saginaw and a few others that seem apparent?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260162563922&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:MT:1

FWIW,
The M20 just means that it is a 4 speed manual transmission, and does not stand for "muncie" per camaros.org. It is correct to call this a M20 transmission even though it is the original Saginaw 4 speed. In 69 they swicthed over to Muncie's as the base transmssions on the LM1's, which followed the 67 L30/M20's with saginaw's.

The 67 L30/M20's had more horsepower at 275hp, than the LM1's with 255hp.

Rich

I have been watching this car. Previously had no Buy It Now. I think it made it around $16,000 ? .Although $15,000 to $17,000 is a fare price it has allot over original appeal.

67for/me

I would not pay more than $15K from what I see, maybe less.

I don't think he will be willing to take a loss on the car but then again he probably with need to catch his breath once he realizes I know the cars history. He may just chose not to deal with me and hold out for the full asking price. HE has a nice looking 69 on his website and I will have to take a close look at that one as well.

I have been watching this car. Previously had no Buy It Now. I think it made it around $16,000 ? .Although $15,000 to $17,000 is a fare price it has allot over original appeal.
67for/me

I agree, but it really comes down to why you want the car. If it were just a friday cruiser, then yes, buy a pro touring, or a 6 banger that has been modified. If you want something with some curb appeal, a little different, and original to boot, then buy a car like this.

On the other hand, if I was looking at a car I wanted to flip, I'd stay away from this car for anything over 14-16K based on today's market. If I was looking for a car to keep, or at least for several years, I would not let 1,000-2,000 keep me from buying a car I really liked.

If he paid 18 for it (which he did :) ), then he really cannot expect to get more than that in today's market, which for non "Super" cars is in the dumps. It all depends on how bad he wants to get rid of it.

Rich

the brackets bolted to the bottom of the spring plates looks like the brackets for the old school "Traction Master" traction bars

those brackets are not welded to the plates as I originally thought because of this pic:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/68cam/67camdrag.jpg

not sure why anyone would leave them on either if they are a simple unbolt, which they may be if you study this pic:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/68cam/67draga.jpg

like I said, those on there point to a different past other than a little old lady car ... :-)

a simple job to clean up the car IMHO

your pictures of the patched shock towers and this picture make me stand on my statement:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/68cam/67rustyfloor.jpg

granted, they may be better than 90% of the others, but for $20k, he can do better and as you state it is more in tune with the lower teens for current value

not trying to bust anyones chops, but he DID ask for advice on the car

that is my advice :-)

It has been relisted a couple times, it made it up to 12,600 last week before ending.