I got a shock today and thought I would share it. Maybe you guys already knew it but I never read any of this in any post about cars with wrong vin on titles. I called the North Carolina DMV today because I found a car(69 Chevelle) but the owner admitted to me he had brought the car down from NY without a title only a registration and lost it. I wanted to know if I could get a legal title for the car now. The DMV answer was shocking. I can get one but with several stipulations. 1- the car has to be driveable. 2- 2 apprasials 3-bonding from my insurance company 4- DMV inspection on my property. Now get this, the car does not have an engine or transmission so I would have to find one. The inspector must see all the info on all drive train parts - VIN, date codes, part numbers. What ever VIN is on the engine is given to the car and is titled that way!If no VIN on engine, then the title goes to the transmission(I didnt ask what if any further than that). If I find a 402 in a Elcamino, I get a title for a Chevelle but the VIN is going to be from the 72 ElCamino!! Talk about a can of worms after the car changes hands a couple times. With that in mind, maybe we should do more research before we cut the legs out from under someone else with very suspicious info with the car they are selling. They just may be innocent. I don't know what the other 49 states does but I do know for a FACT that at least one can really make a mess of a car when they re-title it. Depending on how much is done to the car, it could be titled as a "custom built" vehicle. Sorry for the long post but I thought it was worth sharing with my buds on TC. :wacko: Kevin

You should get that in writing.....I think that employee may have their head up their backside!

No really....they should have some form of pamphlet or literature explaining that entire procedure.....see if you can get a copy!

Dan

I got a shock today and thought I would share it. Maybe you guys already knew it but I never read any of this in any post about cars with wrong vin on titles. I called the North Carolina DMV today because I found a car(69 Chevelle) but the owner admitted to me he had brought the car down from NY without a title only a registration and lost it. I wanted to know if I could get a legal title for the car now. The DMV answer was shocking. I can get one but with several stipulations. 1- the car has to be driveable. 2- 2 apprasials 3-bonding from my insurance company 4- DMV inspection on my property. Now get this, the car does not have an engine or transmission so I would have to find one. The inspector must see all the info on all drive train parts - VIN, date codes, part numbers. What ever VIN is on the engine is given to the car and is titled that way!If no VIN on engine, then the title goes to the transmission(I didnt ask what if any further than that). If I find a 402 in a Elcamino, I get a title for a Chevelle but the VIN is going to be from the 72 ElCamino!! Talk about a can of worms after the car changes hands a couple times. With that in mind, maybe we should do more research before we cut the legs out from under someone else with very suspicious info with the car they are selling. They just may be innocent. I don't know what the other 49 states does but I do know for a FACT that at least one can really make a mess of a car when they re-title it. Depending on how much is done to the car, it could be titled as a "custom built" vehicle. Sorry for the long post but I thought it was worth sharing with my buds on TC. :wacko: Kevin

Just a thought but I would title the car in another state that doesnt have that bunch of BS to go through...thats ridiculous and I would have told the NC DMV that to there face. Come across the line brother to Tennessee...garantee you it'll be easier at least more sane than that! Once title is in hand have it retitled to NC

I find it very hard to believe. Someone didn't know what they were talking about when they gave you this info. First off, they cannot issue you a vin off of an engine or trans if that vin is not on the car. If that was the case you would have multiple cars with the same vin. If a state issues a vin it has to be a vin that was never in use.

That doesnt make any sense. I would suggest talking to someone else.

Owner should be able to get a replacement title in NY if it was registered to him.

That does sound unbelievable. When I bought my car it didn't come with a registration. I simply went to the DMV and filed for a replacement. The DMV issued me a non-transferable registration until the car checked out. At that time I was issued a transferrable.

Guys I know most everyone would have the same reaction, pretty much just as I did..."I can't believe what Im hearing". So as some of you suggested, "talk to someone else, this person don't know what they are talking about", I did just that. I ask to be transfered to another DMV rep. and ask the same question all over and got exactly the same information. I am gonna ask for that info in writing or see if I can find it on the web and post a link. But YES the CAN and do and have issued titles based on the VIN on the drive train components. It may be illegal as crap in another state but in this one(Im ashamed to say) it is happening. I do have friends that buy cars, go to Georgia and get a bill of sale since GA has no titles, only bill of sale required, bring that back to N.C. and get a title issued that way. It's crazy to say the least. I was told the process is so complicated, that even when I could get the car running for inspection, it would take anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks to get a title processed. Kevin

New York State did not issue Titles until 1973. The Registrations were Transferrable.

New York State issues a Certificate of Title (MV-999) for:

most motor vehicles of model year 1973 or newer

Contact the previous owner and see if he has an older registration. Also, a Partial V.I.N. is stamped on the Firewall by the Heater Box. You can also find the complete V.I.N. on top of the frame on the driver's side, behing the rear wheel. You will have to use a mirror or remove the body from the chassis to see the hidden V.I.N.

Good Luck,
Tory

So based on what you were told, a car with no/missing VINs on the body can be titled as long as it has an engine with any VIN on it? Or if the car does have the VINs on it, they dont matter? Only what the drivetrain #s are? :confused:

I can see all kinds of problems with this logic. You could have two cars registered, possibly even in the same state, with the same VIN? If one of those cars gets stolen the owner of the other one could be in real trouble if his car gets run by the police by the VIN. It would come back stolen on the national (FBI) computer return, causing a real nightmare for the legitimate owner of the duplicate VIN car. They need to re-think this method of registering cars.

You can avoid all that by having the owner call the N.Y> DMV and tell them ,he lost his registration.All he needs is the VIN. its already in the system.It cost $5.00......No titles on cars till 1973. Only the registration is proof of ownership. Then transfer the registration to your state DMV.

But with no title ,and I brought the car into N.Y. It would be costly and time consuming.
All state DMV,s are getting tougher due to the changing of vins on cars out there ,even if they are only worth a couple of hundred dollars.

...If what you were told is indeed how they do things, ...I don't know what to say. :confused:
Being another NY State resident, ...I'd do just what others have mentioned, ...if at all possible, ...try to get the prior owner to file for a replacement 'title'. It's not really a "title", (there are no titles in NY for pre-'73 vehicles) ...what you will get will be a "NON-transferable registration", ...THEN (after the car clears) you will get a "transferable registration".

So based on what you were told, a car with no/missing VINs on the body can be titled as long as it has an engine with any VIN on it? Or if the car does have the VINs on it, they dont matter? Only what the drivetrain #s are? :confused:

Yes Dave, as it was explained to me, this is exactly what happens. Thanks for the suggestions guys, but the point of this thread was to enlighten all of us what is going on with some very suspicious VINs that don't match the cars they are in. I really don't care if I get the car or not, and at this point, Id almost be afraid to try. As crazy as all this sounds, it is happening. It brought to mind a couple of recent threads where someone had a title with a VIN that didn't match their car and we all, including me, cried foul. If it happened in this Dixie state, it could have been legit. As I stated in my first thread, when this happens, more research needs to be done to track the history. Personally, I would not want to have a car with a "custom VIN" or a VIN based on the drive train parts, but I now know that they are out there and legal. Being a native of N.C., to the other 49 states... I apologize for my DMV :clonk: Kevin

Here is the "short version" that is in print. When you talk to our DMV, the details much more daunting. Sorry for posting 2 times in succession.
According to the Division of Motor Vehicles in North Carolina, a custom-built vehicle is one that is "completely reconstructed or assembled from new or used parts." Glider kits and custom-assembled vehicles also fall under the category of "custom built." Such a vehicle must be registered.

You should list the make as "custom built" and the year the vehicle was built should be listed under "year." When you register a custom-built vehicle, the title is branded "reconstructed."

Registering and titling a custom-built vehicle is not much different from titling any other motor vehicle. Registration and titling requires a visit to a vehicle and license plate renewal office and the following:
An application for title, completed and signed in front of a notary.
An affidavit for custom-built vehicle, Form MVR-55, which is a notarized statement that describes the vehicle's assembly from new and used parts.
An inspector's report, as this special type of vehicle must be inspected for safety and drivability.
An odometer reading.
A certificate of title or Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin for the frame, engine, and transmission (or an indemnity bond can be filed).
A title fee of $40.
A Highway Use Tax of 3% of the value. The car's value is determined by the total of bills of sale for the entire purchase of new and used parts and labor.

So maybe we should search out a 427 motor with a known Yenko VIN. Then stick it in a Camaro, and have the NC DMV register it for us. :)

Maybe that's how the "Yenko shell" out of Missouri and the "Real" Yenko got the same VIN. :) BTW, I haven't heard a peep in awhile. That "Yenko" disappeared as quickly as it showed up.

Use a title co. its alot less hassle!

What ever VIN is on the engine is given to the car and is titled that way!If no VIN on engine, then the title goes to the transmission(I didnt ask what if any further than that)

You may be reading more into this that what it actually means. The assumption here could be the original engine or trans is still with the car and not some engine or trans from a totally different vehicle.

Here is the "short version" that is in print. When you talk to our DMV, the details much more daunting. Sorry for posting 2 times in succession.
According to the Division of Motor Vehicles in North Carolina, a custom-built vehicle is one that is "completely reconstructed or assembled from new or used parts." Glider kits and custom-assembled vehicles also fall under the category of "custom built." Such a vehicle must be registered.

You should list the make as "custom built" and the year the vehicle was built should be listed under "year." When you register a custom-built vehicle, the title is branded "reconstructed."

Registering and titling a custom-built vehicle is not much different from titling any other motor vehicle. Registration and titling requires a visit to a vehicle and license plate renewal office and the following:
An application for title, completed and signed in front of a notary.
An affidavit for custom-built vehicle, Form MVR-55, which is a notarized statement that describes the vehicle's assembly from new and used parts.
An inspector's report, as this special type of vehicle must be inspected for safety and drivability.
An odometer reading.
A certificate of title or Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin for the frame, engine, and transmission (or an indemnity bond can be filed).
A title fee of $40.
A Highway Use Tax of 3% of the value. The car's value is determined by the total of bills of sale for the entire purchase of new and used parts and labor.

That procedure is for titling a kit car or a scratch-built street rod, not a car with a missing registration.

:beers:

elcamino and JohnZ that is why I put the "short version" on that post. Look again, "reconstructed from new or old parts". I talked at length with 2 different DMV reps. Both told me exactly the same story. Your "reconstructed" car WILL get the VIN from the engine(or tranny) you install. I didn't miss understand that info at all. I know how all this sounds but this time, truth is stranger than fiction. Reconstructed cars get the same treatment as a kit car. Hey, don't take my word for it, call these morons yourselves. Im telling you, they have opened the door for Pandora's Box. If you find a car with a "reconstructed title" look closely at the vin. I just can't imagine anyone with a clue of what goes on these days would make this decision. The only good thing I see here is it will probably save a few old cars from the crusher or being parted out unnecessarily. Kevin

So , If one was to get a Kidney Transplant , does that mean that the Recipient's name is that of the person who donated the Kidney ? :sad:


That is the Stupidiest thing I have ever heard.... getting the make and model of your car from the cast #'s on your block . :mad:

How adventurous are you Kevin? Try this, go to the DMV and give them the vin off your family car and tell them that is the vin on the trans you are putting in your reconstructed car you wish to start driving. There is no way in hell they will issue you that vin because it will come up in the system.

I'm not questioning you as to what you were told, what I think you have going on here is a DMV staffed with employees that were all trained by the same idiot.

If you want to resolve this try a different DMV, Autoclub or just call to have your out of state vehicle transfered to your name and titled. You have to do that by your state law with any vehicle brought in state. I read that on your states DMV site. http://www.ncdot.org/dmv From there the guy doing the inspection will let you know what you have to do next. Each step will lead you to the next...

I also found this, it's your states reg and title handbook. http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/vehicle_services/registrationtitling/titlemanual/download/NCTitleManual.pdf

The NCDMV will not accept a title from a title company. Our DMV is as retarded as it gets and impossible to deal with. I am currently trying to get a title for an Alabama car (1969 Roadrunner) and have been to the DMV a half dozen times and still haven't gotten it. Mostly its finding the right clerk to deal with and one who understands that some other states don't have "titles". The most common answer you get from them is "you need to call Raliegh".
I went a few weeks ago to get a title and tag for a car. In NC you have to pay a title fee,tax and etc. when you apply which is fairly normal. After paying, the lady says I need $5.00 for a notary fee and it must be paid seperate and cash only. I replied that the title is already notorized and she remarked "it doesn't matter, you still have to pay $5.00 cash for the notary". I said, I have no cash can I use a debit card or write a check she replied "no". I said is there an Atm in the building, she said "no". I asked if she knew where the nearest Atm was and she said "no". I asked if she could hold my already processed paperwork until I got back with the hot $5.00 cash and she said "no", you'll have to go to the back of the line and start over. Thats our NC State tax money at work for our citizens.

So , If one was to get a Kidney Transplant , does that mean that the Recipient's name is that of the person who donated the Kidney ? :sad:


That is the Stupidiest thing I have ever heard.... getting the make and model of your car from the cast #'s on your block . :mad:

Don't be silly, they don't do that for kidneys!! They use the name of the brain donor.

The process for obtaining a title by bond in NC is screwy:

The first thing that you have to do is to collect all of your proof of ownership and write a notarized letter "to whom it may concern" explaining why the person you purchased the vehicle had no title to reassign to you and how you can prove that they legally owned the vehicle and legally sold it to you.

The second thing that you do is contact a bonding company and obtain the forms used to request a bond in case anyone shows up with proof that they actually own the vehicle, not the person you purchased from.

Third, you call the Division of Motor Vehicles and obtain their valuation on your vehicle.

You then fill out the bond paperwork, pay the fee to the bonding company, and receive your bond. They will need to have a copy of your proof of ownership (your bill of sale) a completed bond application (signed in blue ink) for an amount 1.5 times the valuation of the vehicle.

You then call your local DMV enforcement office and make an appointment to have your vehicle looked at. The enforcement officer will review all of your paperwork, verify the numbers on the car and assure themselves that the numbers have not been altered. He will also note on the inspection form if you have made any alterations such as engine swaps or replaced the odometer. If you have changed the odometer, you need to have a tag engraved or stamped (can not be fill out with pen or an adhesive sticker, or applied with screws) applied to the driver’s doorjamb. This tag will state that the odometer was replaced and the mileage of the original and replacement unit at the time of the swap. I stamped the entire text of mine with a letter/number set onto a thin sheet of aluminum and pop riveted it to the door with two rivets.

The DMV inspectors like to see that the tag with the vin is riveted on. In general, the DMV enforcement officer is signing a statement that the vin numbers on the vehicle are the correct, original ones, and that they match your paperwork.

Lastly, you take your letter of explanation with attached proof of ownership, bond, title application, and DMV inspection form to your local tag and title place and get process the paperwork.

Note that the bond must have the exact same vin, model, and year of manufacture as all the rest of the paperwork. If you have any differences, you will not get a title, so proofread your application carefully.

You do not need to do this process if you have a Form 97 (federal "title") that has been filled out to you, or a Form 97 with a NC Motor Vehicle Dealer Reassignment of Title Form filled out to you (and a bill of sale from that dealer). You also do not need to title this way if you purchased from a resident of a non-title state and can show that they legally owned the vehicle and sold it to you. In this case, you need to show three consecutive years of tax payments by that owner (copies of their tag payments each year work well) and a notarized bill of sale conveying the vehicle from them to you.

That is the deal here in NC, its a pain.

I too have lived here in NC all my life guys. All this BS to get a title in NC is true. I have passed up some real deals on cars from other states just because they didn't have titles.You have to remember you have to spend alot of money on the car before they will inspect it, ( it has to be road ready ).

Im glad some of my NC buds stepped up here and kept me from looking like I need to be admitted to a psych ward. Im gonna pass on the Chevelle just because of the bonding issue. I not gonna restore a car and take the chance that someone will claim it when it's finished. I love the cars but not that much! LOL Kevin

WOW!!!!..................what a can of worms!! I have not looked lately but no title can be a PITA in Arkansas also. I started to buy a 72 Datsun 510 and stopped because the woman at the revenue office (AR DMV) wanted signed papers from the person the car is titled in now. I asked all I could provide is a bill of sale 3 people deep including one from the titled owner and one from the current owner to me. She said nope has to have sig of current reg owner to release the title. Reg owner is 6 feet under!!!

No deal moved on...........bummer the car was only $250.00 I wanted to e-bay it and make a few bucks.

Joe

In NC you should be able to get a "bonded title" with taxes and insurance receipts. This type title is not accepted in other states.

More states should be like NC.

One state police officer told me a while back that muscle cars are now being coveted by auto thieves because of the great demand and the much greater ease to counterfeit and launder the VIN on older cars and it's becoming increasing common to stick a VIN from a crushed or salvaged car onto a stolen one.

Even your average Joe Hotrod is doing this in the pretense of restoring an old car. Just look at the number of questionable cars that come up for sale on eBay.

Do newer engines and transmissions have the complete VIN stamped on them? If you put an older engine it the car, all they would have is a partial VIN. Would they title the car using just those letters/numbers or guess at what the first numbers were?