I have a 327 with 461 heads, 600cfm Holley, Performer Air-gap, and LT Headers.

Just wondering how much HP it will be putting out if I put in a Crane 274HO6 in it.

Thanks
Kevin

Between 250 and 350 depending on the condition of your engine and other factors not specified.

What is your rear gear ratio? What is your Transmission? What is the purpose of the vehicle? Drag? Street Enjoyment? Daily? All very important when trying to choose a camshaft.

A 274 cam is likely going to be too big for a lil' ole 327. Use a 30-30+ (NEW cam, not the old 30-30) it is a solid lifter cam and is very impressive on Desktop Dyno. It says you'll get 370 HP at 5500 and 385 TQ. at 4500.

A 274 cam is likely going to be too big for a lil' ole 327.

A 218°/218° @ .050" cam is too big for a 327?

RPM Range: 1,800 - 5,400 rpm
Duration @ .050" lift: 218/218 (int/exh)
Valve lift: .450"/.450" (int/exh)
Good for mild performance use, bracket racing, with 2500+ rpm converter, rough idle.

'Rough idle' rating is for a 350, same cam in a 327 is going to behave similiar to a 223°/223° @ .050" in a 350. I'd recommend XE262H or XE268H max, all depends on transmission/gear ratio/intended use. I run an XE256H in my 327 with 200-4R and 3.73 rear.
Previous bozo I bought this Nova from stuck a 224/234 at .050 camshaft in this 327, the engine ran like crap, power band was way too high, especially for the 3.08 / TH350 it had in it.
Granted 218/218 isn't extreme, but coupled with 25 less cu inches, and possibly a 3 series gear ratio its not going to have the right power range for the gearing. Now a 218/218 with 4.11 out back would probably be pretty fun.

'Rough idle' rating is for a 350, same cam in a 327 is going to behave similiar to a 223°/223° @ .050" in a 350. I'd recommend XE262H or XE268H max, all depends on transmission/gear ratio/intended use. I run an XE256H in my 327 with 200-4R and 3.73 rear.
Previous bozo I bought this Nova from stuck a 224/234 at .050 camshaft in this 327, the engine ran like crap, power band was way too high, especially for the 3.08 / TH350 it had in it.
Granted 218/218 isn't extreme, but coupled with 25 less cu inches, and possibly a 3 series gear ratio its not going to have the right power range for the gearing. Now a 218/218 with 4.11 out back would probably be pretty fun.

Is the .50" duration of the 268H substantially different than the Crane 274H06?

218°/218° versus 218°/218°? It's the small LSA that gives the rough idle, and the midrange torque of the 274H06 will be superior.

Us bozos used a 228°/228° cam in our 327 Nova, and it made over 320#ft to the wheels at 3200 rpm, with a power peak of 336 at 5900 rpm. Ran just fine with a 2-bbl and a 3.25 rear end.

I have a 327 with an ultradyne 270 (219/219) cam. It has 4.11 gears and it isn't anything to brag about. I believe this cam is too big for me ! I agree with Brian completely on this as we have had like experiences. A 274 H is going to be around 224 @.050 and yes that is too big. In a 327 there are times when smaller is better ! Like pdq67 says... no more then a 262 - 268 cam.

Us bozos used a 228°/228° cam in our 327 Nova


I'm beginning to think that all Nova owners have a "clown like" mentality!!:yes::thumbsup:

Competition Cam XE268H - 364hp at 5500 / 380 torque at 4500
Crane 274 H06 - 358hp at 5500 / 373 torque at 4000

Using your stats and based on a 9.47:1 compression motor.

http://63nova.nextmill.net/temp/dyno/hpcam_xe268h.jpg http://63nova.nextmill.net/temp/dyno/hpcam_crane274h06.jpg

Heck, I'd run a CC 270S solid lifer cam in her or their old 268HE!!

BUT, she need's to be up at 9.75 to close to 10 to 1 CR. tho!!

My .040" over, 300hp/327 w/ no more than the old Crane Cam Dynamics equivalent 272/272 Energizer cam ran like a "scalded-dog"!!!

pdq67

I'm beginning to think that all Nova owners have a "clown like" mentality!!:yes::thumbsup:

It's always nice to win the race, too. The clown that specified the cam was a Rousch Racing engineer, but it was hard to tell through all the makeup.

A 274 H is going to be around 224 @.050

Have you read the specifications of the Crane 274H06 or you just assuming things? They are listed above.

Competition Cam XE268H - 364hp at 5500 / 380 torque at 4500
Crane 274 H06 - 358hp at 5500 / 373 torque at 4000


What specifications did you use in your simulation? Things like windage tray, water pump, fan, power steering, intake runner length and diameter, compression, header primary diameter, collector diameter and length, exhaust cfm, engine operating temperature, etc.

I can understand that the 274H06 isn't going to perform exactly as well as the 268H, but it appears to me that it the difference is minor. In EA3.2 neither of these broke the 300 hp barrier and neither ran well much over 5500 rpm. My simulator doesn't uphold my prediction of more midrange torque.

the 268H:

RPM···········4000····4200····4400····4600····4800 ····5000····5200····5400····5600····5800
Brake_Tq······323·····324·····328·····325·····320· ····313·····301·····284·····264·····244
Brake_HP······246·····259·····275·····285·····293· ····298·····298·····292·····282·····269
Exh_Pres······.7······.8······.9······1.0·····1.1· ····1.2·····1.3·····1.3·····1.3·····1.4
Int_Vacuum····.6······.6······.7······.8······.9·· ····.9······1.0·····1.1·····1.1·····1.1
Vol_Eff_%·····88.4····89.8····91.6····92.5····92.9 ····93.0····92.2····90.7····88.8····86.7
Actual_CFM····360·····384·····410·····433·····454· ····473·····488·····498·····506·····512
Fuel_Flow·····131·····140·····150·····158·····166· ····173·····178·····182·····185·····187
A/F_Mix_Qal···100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0· ··100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0
BSFC··········.535····.542····.546····.555····.567 ····.580····.598····.624····.657····.695
BSAC··········6.705···6.795···6.846···6.963···7.10 8···7.275···7.506···7.831···8.235···8.721
Friction_HP···65······73······81······91······101· ····112·····124·····137·····150·····164
Mach_#········.354····.371····.389····.407····.424 ····.442····.460····.478····.495····.513
Piston_Spd····2167····2275····2383····2492····2600 ····2708····2817····2925····3033····3142
Piston_Gs·····949·····1046····1148····1255····1367 ····1483····1604····1730····1860····1996
Overlap_%VE···-.6·····-.3·····.9······1.4·····1.5·····1.5·····1.5·····1.3 ·····1.0·····.5
Int_AvgVel····212·····223·····233·····244·····254· ····265·····276·····286·····297·····307
In_InertiaPrs·1.8·····1.9·····1.9·····2.0·····2.0· ····2.0·····2.0·····2.0·····1.9·····1.8
In_ResTunPrs··.0······0.0·····0.0·····0.0·····0.0· ····0.0·····0.0·····0.0·····0.0·····0.0
Ex_AvgVel·····247·····259·····271·····284·····296· ····309·····321·····333·····346·····358
ExTun_Prs·····-.5·····-1.0····-1.4····-1.6····-1.8····-2.0····-2.1····-2.1····-2.0····-1.9


With the 274H06

RPM···········4000····4200····4400····4600····4800 ····5000····5200····5400····5600····5800
Brake_Tq······316·····317·····325·····323·····316· ····302·····287·····269·····249·····229
Brake_HP······241·····253·····272·····283·····288· ····288·····285·····277·····266·····253
Exh_Pres······.7······.8······.9······1.0·····1.1· ····1.1·····1.2·····1.2·····1.3·····1.3
Int_Vacuum····.6······.6······.7······.8······.9·· ····.9······1.0·····1.0·····1.0·····1.0
Vol_Eff_%·····87.2····88.7····91.1····92.0····92.2 ····91.2····89.9····88.2····86.3····84.3
Actual_CFM····355·····379·····408·····431·····450· ····464·····476·····485·····492·····497
Fuel_Flow·····130·····139·····149·····157·····164· ····170·····174·····177·····180·····182
A/F_Mix_Qal···100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0· ··100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0···100.0
BSFC··········.540····.547····.548····.557····.570 ····.589····.611····.640····.676····.718
BSAC··········6.768···6.859···6.876···6.990···7.15 2···7.387···7.664···8.030···8.476···9.005
Friction_HP···65······73······82······92······102· ····113·····124·····137·····150·····164
Mach_#········.367····.386····.404····.422····.441 ····.459····.477····.496····.514····.532
Piston_Spd····2167····2275····2383····2492····2600 ····2708····2817····2925····3033····3142
Piston_Gs·····949·····1046····1148····1255····1367 ····1483····1604····1730····1860····1996
Overlap_%VE···-1.1····-.6·····1.2·····1.7·····1.9·····2.1·····2.1·····1.9 ·····1.5·····1.1
Int_AvgVel····212·····223·····233·····244·····254· ····265·····276·····286·····297·····307
In_InertiaPrs·1.6·····1.7·····1.8·····1.8·····1.8· ····1.8·····1.8·····1.7·····1.7·····1.6
In_ResTunPrs··.0······.0······0.0·····0.0·····0.0· ····0.0·····0.0·····0.0·····0.0·····0.0
Ex_AvgVel·····247·····259·····271·····284·····296· ····309·····321·····333·····346·····358
ExTun_Prs·····-.3·····-.8·····-1.3····-1.6····-1.8····-2.0····-2.1····-2.1····-2.0····-1.9

Desktop Dyno 2000 doesn't get into windage tray, water pump, fan, power steering, intake runner length and diameter, header primary diameter, collector diameter and length, exhaust cfm, engine operating temperature
Compression was 9.47:1
Small Tube-Headers with Mufflers

No Hydraulic Cam is going to run well over 5500 rpms, you'd need a solid lifter for that.

Nothing over 300hp? Sounds like your compress was low.

DesktopDyno is great to compare differences between two cams on a particular engine, if you get the correct compression setting and set the cylinder head, induction, exhaust settings right then it can produce graphs that help people understand how a cam will behave in their engine. Clearly the 364hp value is never going to happen, since you have as you stated power steering, water pump, alternator, fan, as well as many other factors that could bring that # down, but the 6hp and 7 torque difference between the two cams as well as the plotted graph from 2000-5200 rpms is going to be pretty close.

Unfortunately alot of this detail is useless unless we know the exact compression of the motor, transmission and rear end ratio, and expected use of the vehicle in order to determine the best solution. Problem is alot of people come onto this board and post they have xxx size motor and want to know what a certain cam will do for them (usually because they have a friend using the same cam in a completely different motor), as many of us know, there are just too many factors involved that we need details of to paint a better picture.

What is your rear gear ratio? What is your Transmission? What is the purpose of the vehicle? Drag? Street Enjoyment? Daily? All very important when trying to choose a camshaft.

I will be useing it for the street. The reason I want to change out the cam is for a little more horsepower and a little more of a lumpy idle.:)
,
I have a T350, 3.08 rear now, but will be changing to a 3.42 posi, M20 trans in the near future.

Kevin

I have spent many hours experimenting with different cams in Desk Top Dyno, and yes you can "make" almost anything look good. One of the BIG limiting factors are the double hump heads. IF you go to a better breathing head, the 327 can support larger cams. The original poster of this thread, has 461' heads. Those are the old double hump heads. He also did not mention his compression ratio. The cam's I am talking about are being used with less than 10:1 compression. Again, if you run more compression, you can run more cam. If this gentleman would like to run a set of RHS ProAction heads and some dombed pistons with say 12.5:1 compression, by all means, run the 274 cam. If he is not running that kind of compression, and is keeping the double hump heads, he will be happier with a smaller cam.

hpcam the 274 is too much, stick to a 262 or 268 advertised camshaft, as pdq67 and tjs69 mentioned, you'll be glad you did. Too many people try to overcam their motors.

I will be useing it for the street. The reason I want to change out the cam is for a little more horsepower and a little more of a lumpy idle.:)
,
I have a T350, 3.08 rear now, but will be changing to a 3.42 posi, M20 trans in the near future.

Kevin

The 274H06 will definitely have a lumpier idle than the 268H. The added 6° of advertised duration coupled with the 4° smaller LSA will see to that. There are lots of other areas you can work on to improve your power. There used to be a gentleman who posted here that ran mid-11's with a 274H06 cam in his Camaro. If you do a search of this forum for 274H06 you'll come across statements like:

I run the Crane 274H06 and have found it to be the best little cam I've ever ran! It buzzes right up to 6000 real quick. My car ran 99.6 first time out with no tuning and no traction. 2.6 60 foot. My car is an 80 Malibu with a 355, 9.5-1, super T-10 and 2.73 posi.

If you want to put a real lopey , but totally streetable bumpstick in, check out the Crane 274H06. It'll like a modest stall converter, like 2400-2600. It'll come on like a raped ape but only run to 5200 or so. Idle will be rough though, so if you have P/B and such it'll be a hassle.
But it'll sound very cool and pull like hell even in a 8.75:1 motor.


If this gentleman would like to run a set of RHS ProAction heads and some dombed pistons with say 12.5:1 compression, by all means, run the 274 cam.

On what gas?

hpcam the 274 is too much, stick to a 262 or 268 at .050 camshaft, as pdq67 qnd tjs69 mention, you'll be glad you did. Too many people try to overcam their motors.

It's not a 274° @ .050" cam, it's a 218° @ .050" cam.

Onovakind.... what kind of input did you use for your simulations above? header info, CR, intake manifold, etc, etc?

Guy's,

Back again.

I've posted these cams before to use in the little 327 engine

Starting SMALL...................................

Isky's 264 Mega; 264/214, 08/108, .440";

Crane's old 266/210, 110/105, .440";

CC's 268HE; 268/218, 110/106, 454";

CC's 270 Magnum; 270/224, 110/106, .470";

Isky's 270 Mega; 270/221, 108/108, .465";

Crane/Cam Dynamics 272/272 Energizer; 272/216, 110/105, .454";

Crane's 274H06; 274/218, 106/102, .450"....

All this said, I still like a solid lifer cam so have to mention these also!!

CC's 270S; 270/224, 110/106, .468" and need's .022" lash on both sides.

Isky's little Z-20; 268/228, 112/108, .448" and need's .022" lash on both sides;

Crower's little about 228 solid....:

Heck, even CC's old 282S solid at 282/236, 110/106, .495" and need's .022" lash on both sides!!

And I WILL NOT leave out the old GM Duntov!! 287/228/287/230, 110.5/108, right at .385" net lift w/ .012" and .018" lash!! This little jewel imho is about the best little motor solid lifter cam there is for a good street motor!!! I would install 1.6 ratio rockers on her nowadays since they are around.


These little-bitty cams and NOTE, nothing fancy here at all will flat turn an about 9.75 to 10 to 1 CR., 283/292/301/327/336 engines right-on!!

You get the little high-strung jewels up to 11 to 1 CR and drop in Isky's old Z-30 solid lifter cam and they will bark like a Junkyard Dog!!! 290/250/108/108, .455" net lift w/ .030" lash on both sides!!

pdq67

Onovakind.... what kind of input did you use for your simulations above? header info, CR, intake manifold, etc, etc?

I used a production engine with stock pistons and rods, production water pump and flex fan, power steering, no windage tray, stock 461 heads,
8.9:1 compression achieved with 64cc heads, -7cc pistons .025" down, .04 x 4.1" gasket.
Performer RPM manifold with 600 cfm VS carb.
1-5/8" x 30" headers, 25" collector with 720cfm mufflers
165° coolant temperature, std dyno conditions @ 60°F and 29.92"hg

Any thoughts on the GM 350 hp/327 hyd cam from the 67 vette? Or the more recent version -476 GM crate motor cam? (I think someone here spec'd it as 211/221 @50, .435/.460 lift, 112.5 LSA.) I'm still trying to figure this all out.....

that 327 cam really is best with more compression , say 12.5:1. I have used this cam in a 350 with much lower compression and it worked fairly well !

A 274 cam is likely going to be too big for a lil' ole 327. Use a 30-30+ (NEW cam, not the old 30-30) it is a solid lifter cam and is very impressive on Desktop Dyno. It says you'll get 370 HP at 5500 and 385 TQ. at 4500.

The 30/30 cam is alot bigger than the 274 cam so if the 274 cam is too big, how do you think the 30/30 cam will run? I think most peole are confusing advertized duration numbers with .050 duration numbers. If the 274 is only 218@.050 then it would work great. The only problem being the 106 lsa not putting out enough vaccum for pb but it might not even be a issue. It comes down to how the rest of the drivetrain is and whether or not you want to run a solid cam or a hydraulic cam.

I daily drove the old -151 cam in my 350SS's engine 1200 miles from new fine! Powerful sucker.. That engine was right at 10 to 1 CR., even tho GM said it was 10.25.

I figure the old 30-30 really need's 11 to 1 CR. to run like it should as should the -962 and the -151 hy-cams as well as the -178 solid cam.

These cams are all old one's but installed in 10 to 11 CR. engine's, they run good!! Like they did way back then!!

As always, jmho..

pdq67

yeah I knew of a combo running the crane 274 that oneofakind mentions. This was a stocker rebuild that was given to him. It was a 350 sb with around 9:1 compression. He put that cam in and used some older afr heads. Guy was running low 7's in the 1/8 and around 6.7's with a little shot. If you want a really nasty sound then it's perfect. Other wise I would run the little comp 268HE.

Since this got brought back from the dead....

Just wondering if hpcam ever installed that 274H06 and how it worked in the 327...

If you use a Dyno program, and use the old "camel back" heads, it actually shows a HP loss when you get to a 270 cam. The 268 makes more power. I feel the reason the 30-30 cam works well is that, as PDQ always says, that GM got the little bugger right, when they designed it. The point that I am trying to make is that with a larger cam, you seem to be reaching the limits of the heads. The 274H06 may work great with better flowing heads. My reasoning is backed by the fact, that I have a 270H cam in my 327 now ! It is overcammed. According to Desktop Dyno, if I would retard the cam by 12 degrees, I would get much more power ! I haven't tried this yet but, I would like to hear from a cam guru, on what this is doing, to make more power ?

We had a 228°/228° cam in a 331" small block and it certainly wasn't overcammed.

A desktop dyno sheet and $1.75 will get you a cup of coffee most anywhere.

What heads were on that 331", and were they ported ?

Tell me more about how this 270H cam is 'too big'?

I have almost talked myself into a 272/276, 218/223, 110LS cam for a 9.5:1 327 w/ stock 2.02 heads, and I was thinking it would be just about perfect with an M20, 3.08 gear, in a ~3100 lb car.

Am I wrong? :confused:

From my experiance, I would only go up to a 268H. Are your heads the "camel back" or do they have larger intake ports ? Go to comp cams website and download their CamQuest software. Get flow numbers for your heads, and input all the data and compare !

They were Dart heads. You can read about the entire engine build here:

http://www.geocities.com/pcwright77/durango.html

One poster mentioned the factory -476 350HO cam. I found a video clip of a 350HO crate motor idling. The 350HO cam is 212/222@.050 .435/.460 112.5 LSA. This cam would be even more "lumpy" in a 327. This cam would probably run strong in 327 with 3.42 & up gears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l689JKXPnA

Just though I would throw this out there for reference.

-Mark

John65Nova - Is that a solid or Hydraulic cam, you are wanting ? For some reason you can run slightly larger solidcams.

Onovakind67 - I am not surprised that you can run a larger cam, with better flowing heads.

Granny's69 - 350's are an entirely different animal.

I am with the guy about the 350 HO cam, that would be a good choice. You do not want to run that 274H06 Crane in that motor,bad choice. you want a split duration cam because the exhaust ports on those heads are probably not that great plus a LCA of 106 degrees is just rediculous in a street motor, it will idle terrible. 110 LCA should be max

This cam would also work good and it is a new cam from Crane called the Z series cams.
http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=113511&lvl=2&prt=5

And I'm here to say, you want a "knarly" 327, then get her up to at least 11 to 1 CR. along w/ a good big valve topend assembly and install Isky's old Z-30 in her w/ uncorked headers and it will pull ABOVE 7,000 rpm!!

And if you have the nerve, grab a gear at 8,000 rpm under full load!!

Road in my long gone Crippled Buddy's old '58 'Vette ragtop w/ his 375hp/327FI engine in it, 4-speed and small tires w/ 3.08's!! back in like '64 os so............... Back in HS!!

That old Z-30 was pulling at 7,200 rpm one night in 4th gear for like 8 miles!!

pdq67

OK no computer simulations here.67 Camaro 327 bored .060 flat top 4 vajve relief psitons zero deck Felpro .039 head gasket.461 heads 1.94 in 1.50ex valves .010 surfaced to clean them up.Qjet and factory Qjet intake stock exhaust manifolds 21/4 full exhaust with Flowmasters .B&M 2100 stall converter TH350 with 3.08 eaton posi rear and Caltracs 245-60-14 BFGs.Power disc brakes and a Crane 274HO6 cam.Idle at 700 rpm sounds great no problem with vacume for brakes.If you stage it you can smoke the tires through 1st gear.The idle comes from the 106 LSA after 1000 it is smooth and pulls great.A good cam for a 327 IMO.Not knocking the computer sims. but real world and computers dont always agree.I may give up a little bottom end but I get alot more sound than a 268 or 272 at 110 lsa.

Anybody that thinks it wont run good just stop by for a ride door is always open.

P.S. you should hear it idling in gear with the A/C on.

If its not raining here tomorrow I will try to get a 1/4 mile time and post back.I have the weight of the car so we could get HP numbers from that.

I agree with 67 Plum! I've been running the Crane 274 for years and think it's a great little camshaft. The idle isn't too rough with about 13" of vacuum and my power brakes work fine. It make great low speed power and pulls real good to about 6000 rpm where I have my rev limiter set. If it wasn't a good grind I would have removed it a long time ago!

Here's my combo-
'80 Chevy Malibu
355 cid 4 bolt 9.5-1 comp
World products SR 67cc heads
Holley 300-36 intake manifold
Holley 600 #4776 double pumper
Comp 274H06 cam 218 @ .050 .450 lift 106 LSA
Hedman 1 5/8" headers
Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers with 2" 1/4 exhaust system
Super T-10 4 speed
2:73 with Auburn posi

I've only had it at the dragstrip twice. Quarter mile-13.8 @ 100.16 mph

Guy's I am not saying the 274H06 cam, is a bad cam ! I am just saying it may be pushing the limits of the "CAMEL BACK" heads. If you look at your own combo's you are not using those heads. (With the exception of 67 Plum.) I would love to hear from more people like 67 Plum that use that cam WITH camel back heads. If I hear from others that use that cam WITH camelback heads, I may try it myself ! I also agree that computer sims are not real world, that is why we are discussing this, for real world experience... not just what the computer says !

I run a Comp 280 magnum 230@.050 .480 lift with 462 humps. Runs great. I do have dome pistons and higher compression though.

The old hump heads were designed for 327's, and GM got up to 375hp (FI) out of them in a 327. 365hp with a carb. Those heads are small for a built 350, and up, but for the smaller cubes and shorter stroke of a 327 they work well.

If you're looking for 400+hp, that's another story.

Mark

If you want real world experience with stock heads, look no farther than the NHRA. There are plenty of guys running real quick with a lot more cam and stock heads.