View Full Version : When "newbie" meets Murphy's Law


scoulbourne
Nov 13th, 07, 11:20 PM
First let me start by stating that I love reading the forums on this site, and reverence the advice given (and laugh at those who get carried away at times) That being said, I have been reluctant to share the experience I am currently going through on the purchase of my 67 Camaro, however, I’m to the point of welcoming advice, insight, support, even a few WTF were you thinking posts will help for laughs , as that’s the point I’m at now.

So what is the situation….In 1991 a family friend purchased a 67 Camaro to restore for his teenage son to go along with the 69 Camaro he had just completed. He worked on the car until his sudden death in 1992, at which time my dad purchased the car for himself allowing him to complete the restore and assist our friends family with money issues.

I moved out of state in 1993 to complete college, start my career and family, and during every visit to my parents house I would always hit my dad up to let me buy the car from him. Two years ago, he privately named his price to my wife, of which she gladly bought for me as a fathers day present to be given to me by our daughter (thank you sweetie.:hurray:) I was excited as this was my opportunity to finally finish the restore that our friend had started, and my dad never had time to complete (but did get it to the primered and paint stage (thanks dad :thumbsup:)

Being I lived out of state, and essentially purchased the vehicle from my parents, I kept the car in its current location till I was ready to begin the restore. That day finally arrived at which point it occurred to me to have the title signed over to my name. This is where the story begins to suck, for me at least:sad:. Apparently my parents never received the title from our friends wife when they purchased the vehicle in 1992, they did receive the Bill of Sale, however, she was dealing with her sudden loss and was unaware of the titles immediate location, it was to be delivered in a few days; the days turned to weeks, weeks to months, eventually turning to years and forgotten about, until I brought it up about 16 months ago. I had someone that is ready to paint the car and assist with the details to restore the car but wanted to get it insured. In theory all wasn’t lost as I took the VIN number to the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) in an attempt to get a copy of the title, which did not work due to I’m not the name the title; I would have to get the previous owner to request the copy. I explained that would be difficult due to the previous owner had died, but was assured that his heirs could request the copy.

I left feeling frustrated; however, I kept the potential for hope as I was certain I could get his wife to appear at the DMV to request the title. That hope lasted the 15 minutes it took to return to my parents house to find that his wife had remarried in 1996 and moved out of state, and we are not sure of her new name or location, and the son had joined the Navy and was last known to be somewhere between Guam and San Diego. All was still not lost though, as I returned to the DMV and was told that I could petition the court for ownership since we had a valid Bill of Sale from the “heirs.”

As so goes life, I had to return to my home (in order to keep my job) attempting to continue the process of obtaining rightful ownership to a car that had owned for 1 year by now, but did not have a title for…but my hope persists. I began the petitioning process earlier this year (note going on year 2) during a return trip to my parents home, only too finally get the ear of a court clerk that had no clue how to further the process and pointed me back to the DMV for further assistance. Apparently Virginia judges do not have as much power as the DMV assumes, anyhow that “process” did not work as hoped.

Now the twist and my catch 22….“squared”, the DMV finally sent someone to the location of the car to start the “investigation process” for my request (yea progress:hurray:), at which time we found the VIN plate has been stolen (my WTF moment) from the car at some point from the time that I started the process for obtaining the title to the second the investigator showed up wanting to finally help me out; by the way, the cowl tag wasn’t touched. We uncovered the hidden VINs which matched the information I previously submitted, but now Im awaiting further instruction from the DMV.

So now I have a car that I own, no title, now no VIN, an auto body person chomping at the bit to begin restoring my mechanical beauty, but I can not touch the vehicle as now they are researching their records to ensure the car was not stolen (did I mention that the DMV only keeps 10 years worth of records in the computer so this has not been a quick process; something about having to manually search and may not be successful? Not having the rosiest of feelings) My fear is given the twists and turns this story has taken till now, that Im only half way through the chapter and there could be alot more to come.

Given the situation, I’m looking for advice from the other members and your opinions on this situation. Granted, I can get my money back for the car, money isn’t the issue (I want the car, love the car), the lesson of ensuring a title exists upfront cannot be expressed enough, (don’t assume, regardless of who owns the car, or for how long they’ve owned it.)Also, theives should be shot or allowed to be "waterboarded" by their victims :sad: .... My hope is to get these problems resolved, complete the restoration and enjoy it for the many years to come. Worst case someone reads this post and learns a lesson upfront, especially a newbie looking for their first classic.Thanks for hearing me out.

Steve

DanW
Nov 13th, 07, 11:48 PM
Sorry to hear of your misfortune and troubles. But since you have the ball rolling on a VIN investigation, there really isn't much you can do but wait and pray for positive results. Did you get an idea of how long it would take to complete the investigation?

Everett#2390
Nov 14th, 07, 05:18 AM
Sixty-seven's have the VIN plate riveted on the drvr door jam on the qtr panel. If stolen, you would see two holes/damage about this area.

You might ask the executor(s) of the Will or their lawyer(s) for the Power Of Attorney in dealing with liquid assets and present the Bill of Sale and the POA to DMV. Maybe on a good day, you might get another approach/answer.

Have you thought/asked about retitling it with a state issued VIN plate?

Maybe all the DMV's should run the government.............

Oh, welcome to the Club!

67FamilyFun
Nov 14th, 07, 05:24 AM
Thats a great story...until about the middle :mad: Wish my kids had given me the Camaro...instead they just want to lay claim to it...:)
Sounds like the bureaucracy is working.
Keep Faith!
Scott

wiskeesour
Nov 14th, 07, 07:27 AM
Keep the faith.

.....Life has a weird way of working itself out....

scoulbourne
Nov 14th, 07, 09:42 PM
Faith has got me this far, looking forward to finally getting it resolved and getting the car painted and on the road. Evertt thanks for the welcome, the 2 holes on the door post made me sick when I saw them. Until I hear back from the DMV, I will continue to attend car shows and wish it was me with the hood popped up. Thanks again guys.

keypilot
Nov 15th, 07, 09:17 AM
steve, for a few bucks there are lots of places like people finders that can find the PO. you know her name and approx age and at least 1 old address. i have done it trying to find an owner of a 69 vert vette. also, its a little late since you involved the dmv, but you could put a lien against it and a title company could get you a title. done this myself lots of times. (used to have a tow business)
good luck

camaromaniac
Nov 16th, 07, 03:44 PM
Steve,

I like Mark's idea of using a people search/finder company to locate the seller. Using her prior name & address (age if known), they have access through a data base of public records that should pull up her new married name (if changed) and a current address. Shoundn't be more than $25 for a one time search, which you can even do over the net. You might even want to send her a letter to the old address with an address correction to see if the local post office still has a record. Also, go door knocking to see if one of her old neighbors still keeps in touch or has a new address. If you know someone who works in the collections field, they may have an additional resource.

You are wise not to put any $ into the restoration until you have a clear title.

Charlie 69 RS

68DaveV
Nov 16th, 07, 05:17 PM
Welcome to TC. Might I suggest posting the VIN here (in Tag Team). Perhaps it's been seen in an ebay ad or it's in someone's database.

redfox
Nov 16th, 07, 05:34 PM
Hello and welcome to the site.:beers:

Old baldguy
Nov 17th, 07, 09:39 AM
Wow good luck and yes keep the faith,bro and Welcome from the Pacific NW

scoulbourne
Nov 17th, 07, 07:13 PM
Mark and Charlie, first think you for your advice, I took your suggestion and began searching for companies/websites that I could use to assist; in hindsight, what a simple idea guess I got too consumed with the overall process. Two things, first the internet has shrunk the world and two apparently you can’t hide. I stumbled upon a site that allows a free database search for which I put in her name as I last knew it and the town we had lived in; not expecting anything when clicking search, imagine my surprise when the results showed her name, her deceased husbands name, her new last name, new husbands name and all the places she has lived for at least the past 20 years (scary stuff and all free info; could get more detailed results for a fee.) :thumbsup: Being one step closer, I went to a webpage I normally use to look up phone numbers, I plugged in her name and various listed towns form the other search list, and got a single hit. I called the number listed and got chills down my spine as I recognized her voice immediately. I left a message explaining the situation and hopefully will hear back. As I said before faith has got me this far, now I have another avenue to help out, I’m pretty excited though. In regards to the VIN please add it 124377n253546. For all the others, thanks for the welcome. :beers: