OK, what's going here? Has normalcy returned to the marketplace? The bid is stalled like a car flooded out!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-1969-Camaro-Z-28-X33-Crossram-JL8-Restored_W0QQitemZ330187653275QQihZ014QQcategoryZ6 161QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

alan

There is so much paint on that trim tag it is hard to see what is there....it is not an obvious trimtags inc TT but with all the paint it is relly hard to tell what the deal is there for me....Authentic JL8 and GM cross ram... is it a GM licensed cross ram and carbs or a real 1969 over the counter unit... I am not real familiar with cross ram cars but is that alt bracket a custom cross ram piece because it doesn't look like the one on my Z and it looks pretty flimsey for an engine that can spin 8k

Wow! That interior is so..............red.

It'll probably take off again as it nears closing time.

I was thinking factory JL-8 had tapered axle tubes at the flange. It appears that these are straight.

So, where is the "Caution: Fan" tag? :wacko:

It'll probably take off again as it nears closing time.

I was thinking factory JL-8 had tapered axle tubes at the flange. It appears that these are straight.

The photo seems to show a tapering/constriction (or I am seeing what I want to see).



alan

I have doubts on the tag. There is alot of paint on it for a reason IMHO.

The tag is fake, no question. Its also about a month later than the VIN. A car with a VIN of 637272 is an 05A car, not 05D. This car is only about 300 VINs after mine and mine is an 04L car. That also makes the engine about 2 weeks late. Its already over priced for what it is. Which is a FAKE.

Might as well record it:

124379N637272

ST 12437 NOR 357214 BDY
TR 711 52 52 PNT
05D X33

The tag is fake, no question. Its also about a month later than the VIN. A car with a VIN of 637272 is an 05A car, not 05D. This car is only about 300 VINs after mine and mine is an 04L car. That also makes the engine about 2 weeks late. Its already over priced for what it is. Which is a FAKE.

Might as well record it:

124379N637272

ST 12437 NOR 357214 BDY
TR 711 52 52 PNT
05D X33

This is why I love this site. Thanks to all for weeding out the Clones
My dad was about 1 hr away from spending 65K on a car that was rebuked here. Its info like this that saves the hobby, keeps folks from getting scammed and discourages scammers :hurray::beers:

The tag is fake, no question. Its also about a month later than the VIN. A car with a VIN of 637272 is an 05A car, not 05D. This car is only about 300 VINs after mine and mine is an 04L car. That also makes the engine about 2 weeks late. Its already over priced for what it is. Which is a FAKE.

Might as well record it:

124379N637272

ST 12437 NOR 357214 BDY
TR 711 52 52 PNT
05D X33

Man, that is some sleuthing!!!! Is there a document that shows how vins related to trim tag dates? Does the Camaro Research Group website have that? I think they have a section that talks about the relationship between casting dates and car assembly dates.

Death (or at least a bad root canal ) to the fakers.

alan

no such document to speak of, but GM does provide a list of the last VIN produced each month. In this case the last VIN produced at NOR in April of 69 was 637102. Since norwood produced 912 cars a day it shouldn't take a genius to figure out that a car with a VIN 170 cars after this one came off the assembly line sometime early in the day on May 1st 1969. It may actually have been either an 04L or 05A car. Hard to tell now. It didn't have the tag the car is sporting now though.

The list of VINs is on the CRG site.

I noticed thr bidding did'nt move up any for the last 3 days even at the last minute.I E-mailed them asking if they could shed some light on the notion that there MIGHT be a desrepancy with the build date with relation to the cowl tag.I got no response during the 36 hours that led to the end of the auction....I was very interested in the car and was fishing to justify a lower price or justify there out of sight for me price..no such luck and no response after 2nd E-mail 1 hour before auction end either.I appreciate the expert knowledge here because that one was very convincing.......

Nice attempt at loading on the paint but the tag is fake for sure.

It does bring up an interesting question: What is the value of that car if is not an original car? The JL8 even if not original to the car does add a few dollars to it's value. And if it was well restored, it should be worth a couple of bucks as restoration labor and parts are the same if it is a numbers matching car or a "tribute" car.

The sad thing is that now the reputation of the car is permanently stained because of the discrepancy.

alan

There isn't one shred of evidence this car was ever a Z28. Its got a fake tag, a DZ engine dated 2 weeks after the build date of the car, by its VIN. What makes you think that axle is anything else but a restamped, fake JL8 axle. There are tons of the on Ebay BTW. Its a nice looking car, but the seller should have been happy to get the 55K it ended at. Unless he finds someone who is clueless about these cars he'snever going to see 99K for that car.

If the rear axle was constricted at the ends, it is a real JL8 axle. Maybe and most likely not original to the car but a JL8 none the less. My point was that obviously, Z's are getting rarer and rarer. For the individual who wants to "capture the essence" of a Z, component wise, it can be done. It will NOT be a factory Z but from a performance standpoint, it should be comparable. Let's face it, the prices are getting pretty stupid and in all likelyhood will get stupider as time goes on. Just because you can't afford the real deal, you should still be allowed on the dance floor.

alan