I was looking at replacing my A-Arms with some aftermarket ones. I have done a few searches and see a number of posts about the Global West and DSE Arms, but has anyone used the Hotchkis ones? How do they compare with the GW and DSE ones?

Any information is appreciated, thanks.

I was looking at replacing my A-Arms with some aftermarket ones. I have done a few searches and see a number of posts about the Global West and DSE Arms, but has anyone used the Hotchkis ones? How do they compare with the GW and DSE ones?

Any information is appreciated, thanks.

What purpose do you have for doing this? If you mostly want looks, go with a trusted brand. If you want functionality and a great price, go with SPC (scandc.com), save a lot of money, and have everything you need to dial in caster/camber you need. For their basic starting "kit", it's approx $335 for both UCAs. Other sellers start at around $550+. When you subtract what a new set of replacement bushings would cost for your stock arms, it puts the total under $300. I haven't seen anywhere that beast this price. Additionally, Mark Savitske (owner) is about the nicest guy you could talk to, and is extremely knowledgeable about applications. In fact, he actually designed the UCA's for SPC specifically for our 1st gens (and others).

I am looking for improved handling with a big block in the car.

So far I will be installing the Hotchkis sway bars, Eaton rear multi-leaf 175lbs rear springs. Moog 550 spring (#5536) and koni shocks all the way around. Originally I was just planning on replacing the bushings and balljoints but was figuring while I have everything apart it might just make sense to replace the upper/lower A-arms while I am at it.

Thanks for the tip on SPC I'll look into them.

generally speaking, different a-arms will not improve handling.
Any improvement you do see would be from an upper a-arm design that allows more positive caster. Hotchkiss, global west, and dse all do this. But they are still solid fixed arms, and use shims to adjust the alignment.

The big handling improvements come from changing the geometry, either with the guldstrand mod, or with tall upper balljoints or tall spindles.

Other considerations would be controlling deflection and friction.
Stock rubber bushing have medium friction and a lot of deflection.
Poly has medium deflection and a lot of friction.
Hard plastic, such as del-a-lum from global west, have pretty los friction and deflection.
Solid steel has zero friction and zero deflection.

I used global west lowers, mostly because I lucked into a used set for less money than the del-a-lum bushings woulda cost.

Up top, the guldstrand mod straightens out the camber curve for free, and SC&C supplied the adjustable solid steel bushed upper a-arms. The SC&C arms are max bling, very cool looking, very strong, and they are adjustable, no more shims to align the front end.

Jim,

I had figured the whole point of the after market A-Arms was to be able to get the increased caster, after reading Pozzi's great site. Thanks for the great information.

What is not clear to me is do people combine after market uppers with the guldstrand mod?

What about combining after market a-arms with tall spindles?

Not really sure what combinations work and don't, still a lot to get one's head around.

I have been looking at the SC&C packages they do look pretty good, even more possibilities :hurray:

basically, the only combo that doesn't work is combining both a tall spindle or ball joint with the guldstrand mod, that would be too much of a good thing. Doing one or the other is real important. The stock suspenson will "roll" the outside tire in a turn, reducing the contact patch and causing understeer out the yingyang.

The g/s mod is free and easy and it works.

The tall ball joints work too, and don't cost much. If I knew about them 7 years ago, I may have went this way. If you do, be sure to ask about rim clearance. I don't know if you'd stick the balljoint right into a 15 rim.

Higher $$$ there are tall spindles now. ATS has great stuff, but only with C5 brakes and 17" or larger rims. There are other players here too now, and more new stuff coming out every day.

With stock a-arms, caster is limited by how many shims you can put in or take out and still hit the correct camber target. Most aftermarket arms offset the balljoint mount to the rear. Compared to a stock arm, there would be more caster with the same shim set.

The SC&C arms take it a step further. Over an INCH of separate adjustment in the front and rear bars gives you a bunch of room to align.

With stock arms and the g/s mod, I got 3 1/2 degrees of caster, but had to run 1 degree of camber to get it. Zero shims on the front bolt. Car handled great, but ate front tires for lunch.

With the SC&C arms, I got 4 3/4 caster and 1/4 camber. Handles even better, and won't eat tires.

The SC&C arms take it a step further. Over an INCH of separate adjustment in the front and rear bars gives you a bunch of room to align.

With stock arms and the g/s mod, I got 3 1/2 degrees of caster, but had to run 1 degree of camber to get it. Zero shims on the front bolt. Car handled great, but ate front tires for lunch.

With the SC&C arms, I got 4 3/4 caster and 1/4 camber. Handles even better, and won't eat tires.

I would also advise anyone going with SPC UCAs, through scandc.com, to request 5" sleeves. They come standard with 4" sleeves, and I wasn't able to get more than 2* caster! I actually asked him for 6" sleeves so I'd have more threads engaged when it was dialed in, and it worked perfectly. I was able to get 5* caster and -.5* camber (for most of our car applications +4.5* to +5.5* is recommended for caster, and -.5* for camber). The handling is phenomenal, and Mark assures that these specs won't wear tires.

Thanks for all the great info. Now I just got to figure out what I want to and what I can afford :)

Higher $$$ there are tall spindles now. ATS has great stuff, but only with C5 brakes and 17" or larger rims. There are other players here too now, and more new stuff coming out every day.



We now offer a 12" rotor matched with an aluminum 4 piston caliper that fits into 15x7 rallys for our tall AFX spindle. Resto guys can finally have their cake and eat it too.

Tyler

We now offer a 12" rotor matched with an aluminum 4 piston caliper that fits into 15x7 rallys for our tall AFX spindle. Resto guys can finally have their cake and eat it too.

Tyler
:hurray: I didn't know that Tyler, thanks for the news! :thumbsup:

So if I am understanding this all correctly, it sounds like that the trick setup would be:

SC&C Upper control arms
AFX Tall Spindles (or optionally the Guldstrand mod instead)

With the option of a C5 12" rotor front brake kit if I wanted to keep my stock rims and tires (thinking of going 17" rims but that is another project, but I do want to convert to C5 brakes at some point).


Is there any point to after-market lowers at all in this setup? What would I gain by going with them anything, or just bling?

I don't see any benefits to the aftermarket lower A arms. some have a separate spring seat insert which allows you to rotate it to fit coils that have been cut. It makes trimming coils for ride height a bit more reliable.

Adjustable upper A arms are great, but I prefer a solid welded assembly. If you really need the extra adjustability, that's fine, but arms like Global West, or DSE have less to come loose, so that's what I prefer. I do think the extra positive caster is a great way to go, especially if you will autocross or corner hard in tight radius corners. Caster is your friend. Turn your front wheels full lock and look at your tire's camber angle. With stock arms the loaded wheel is tipping out at the top. On larger radius turns, the car's camber curve is more important, this is where the Guldstrand mod or taller balljoints can help.
David

Just an update in-case anyone else is looking at the Hotchkis upper a-arms. I called Hotchkis today and according to them with their upper arm geometry changes you can get:

-2deg Camber over stock
+1deg Caster over stock

So they don't appear to do much when compared to GW, DSE etc.