I have asked this question before but am still concerned and would appeciate comments -
ZZ502 into a 69 Camaro. The low profile 4 quart oil pan recommended for this engine swap (part 12495360). Is this enough oil capacity for the BB on the street??
The engine has come with a 6 quart but wont fit in the 69. Has anyone used the 4 quart pan with success. :confused:

I guess after paying a lot of money for the ZZ502 deluxe I just need to be sure the oil capacity is enough :thumbsup:
Maybe I could get the 4 quart version modified to kick out at the sides to increase the capacity if no clearance problems- anyone attempted this ??

Sorry to push this again but is worrying the hell out of me before the engine install :sad:

Over the summer I did that same thing, ZZ502 in a 68, and I used that pan.

No problems yet.

I have also used that pan on a 454HO motor that was installed in an older 2wd Blazer. it's been in a few years.

I wouldn't worry about it.

As a side note, the windage tray that is on the motor now won't clear the 4 qt pan, (just in case you didn't already know)

4 qts in the pan is fine for the street.No way you will pump it dry.More oil will only take longer to warm up and longer to cool down.Unless you have a real hard launch or throw the car into corners..the street pan will be just fine.

First:

Is the engine a stock 502?
Do you have any plans to add HP in the near future?

If a stock motor and you don't plan on pushing it much a stock pan will do. Otherwise I would go for more oil, even with a stock setup more oil won't hurt, oil is the life blood of a motor. Having more means there is more to keep the engine properly lubricated and will wear out less, cheap insurance really.

Oil is how much? How much is a new motor? If you have ever taken apart a motor that has been abused or not maintained you won't quibble with the cost of oil.

With my built 489 I went with a 6 quart pan from Moroso.

Factory ZL-1 Camaros used the 4 quart pan. I would not worry about it.

Factory ZL-1 Camaros used the 4 quart pan. I would not worry about it.

William you have said it all :hurray:

Many thanks for the replies, this is a great site :yes:

I am using the Milodon # MIL30955 and the MIL18301 oil pickup. It is a 7 quart pan.

Factory ZL-1 Camaros used the 4 quart pan. I would not worry about it.

So you would use a SC or SD service grade motor oil they had in factory a ZL-1 as well then?

Or would you go with a modern motor oil?

Also, has the oil capacity in the typical auto gone down or up since the ZL-1 came out?


The biggest improvements in engine life have come from better bearing materials/construction, tighter tolerances, higher quality motor oils and more oiling capacity, I'd take advantage of all of that however I could.

Wear??? When my original L78 died because of a failed valve seat in a closed chamber aluminum head at 78,000 miles, all of the honing marks were still like new on the cylinder walls. I used Penzoil exclusively and would change it when it started to darken from its golden color. Of course, the rings never seated. That engine used a quart of oil every 500 miles. Yep, clockwork.
So I replaced it with my L88. I bought it in 1968, a year before the car. It's a .060 over 427 to 440 cubes. My racer buddie that was caught cheating with the engine was using a 6 quart pan from Chevrolet Racing. All Chevy did to make it was to cut the bottom off of one pan and weld it to another. The problem with that was it hung low. Yep, first good bump and it was toast and I was parked. (I saw the pressure dropping on my guage and shut-down)
So, I bought a 4 quart pan that was for all BBC in a Corvette. Fits great with the Chevy windage tray too. And sits above the frame so it's safe. I run a high volume oil pump with a 60psi spring. Works great too.
Now for some scientific testing; At the strip, launching (4700 flash), the oil pressure is rock solid at 60psi. Through the gears it does not waver. At the lights, no difference. Perfect. Every run last summer was the same. (about 30)
That reminds me of a story.;) Back in the sixties I was hanging with fellow Chevy freak buddies. It was well known at the time that street Hemi's pumped all their oil up into the heads and were losing pressure in the traps. I had just swapped a 360 horse 396 into my 61 Impala bubble top. I shut the engine off and pulled the dipstick. It was at the full mark. I showed it to one of the guys. He said "Zora Duntov does it again". Yep. Perfect oiling system. Then and now.

OIL Pans & Windage: Vs; Main Stud Bolt Heigth, Windage tray to Crank throw clearance, Oil Pump Clearance and most Important Oil Pan Design.

BBC: In my OPINION exulting Dry Sump for the purpose of running Hi-Hp on the Street, is to use the Morrosso SideKick Oil Pan with the Diamond Stripper Windage Tray and Hi Volume Pump like the TRW (Tall Casing) rather then Hi-Pressure (Low Casing) such as the Melling. Considering you want Oil to Lubricate duirng Hi-Spd Cornering rather then just Acceleration.

PROBLEMS: Fitting a Full Length Windage Tray Vs a 3/4 Tray. Most likely you will have to use a Torch, a wood Trough to Saddle the Pan and use say Sockets to Dimple the the front Main Bearing Stud Nuts in order to modify a $300 Morosso Side kick to accept a Full Length Windage Tray and Maintain at least a .040" Crank Counter weight to Tray Clearance with out warping the Oil Pan. - :o))

Yes it can be done by bolting the Oil Pan on the Engine Block and placing Sockets on the nut of the Main Studs in order to heat and shape the bottom on the Oil Pan for stud and windage tray clearance. The windage tray may have to be ground on the edges to fit.

This is an easy but time consuming MOD to build an engine that will receive constant Oil Lubrication whether under Straight Line Acceleration or Hi "G" Cornering.

Alternate Idea :o))

Hey Ron! How'd ya know my son is assembling the same setup? We'll be putting it together over Xmas. He's at 500 cubes. Gotta beat the old man. Mind if I print your instructions for reference?:thumbsup:

Fred:

Suggest a nicely rounded Steel Cylinder: like 6" dia approx 4 to 6" long to beat the "RED HOT" pan FRONT bottom Arc while nestled in a 2 X 4 trough thus Extenting the Radius to accommodate the Full Length Diamond Strip Windage Tray. The Sockets Placed on top of the main studs are important and use a larger dia socket to dimple the front 2 Main positions. Keep tightening the Pan Bolts and hence NO Pan Warpasge. I like that SideKick Pan. Heavy duty, 2 2xtra quart capacity and has Hinged Baffles.

You will have to place rags or plastic over the collectors when changing the Oil Filters but this is probably the only consequence you pay for probably the Cheapest and Best Wet Oil System Modifications I've come up with over years of Modifying.

Your Son's Lucky, He has 1st Hand Input from an Old Pro :o))

Sounds like fun. Thanks! And I'm not sure who's teaching who these days. He's amazing. Honest.

Factory ZL-1 Camaros used the 4 quart pan. I would not worry about it.

ZL1s had the standard 1.14"gear pump in them.

ZZ502/502s have the 1.39" gear HV pump.

I would never combine a HV pump and a small 4 quart pan together unless the rpm is kept below say, 5000.

For the sake of killing an engine, I'd get in touch with High Energy and have them increase it's volume.
But that's just me. I've spent several thousand rebuilding an engine due to oil starvation.
http://www.highenergy.com.au/

BlackoutSteve
Do you know if you can go out at sides of the stock pan without clearance problems using stock BB frame mounts ??

Peter

This is a High Energy modified pan. Obviously it's a MK IV pan, but a Gen V or VI will look the same.
It has a capacity of around 6 - 6.5 liters or about 5.5 - 6 quarts.
They make them with baffles and windage screens and all that stuff.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7605/engineblackout1050ly.jpg

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/8083/assembly0368eg.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assembly0368eg.jpg) http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3108/assembly0337qu.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assembly0337qu.jpg)

Pete, Id hate to see you kill your 502 for the sake of a liter or two of oil. High volume pumps and stock pans are not a good combination.
This is why HV pumps have a bad reputation. Guys do a rebuild and fit one usually with a cam that has a higher operating rpm, then replace their stock pan and wonder why their pan got sucked dry.
The engine spins faster, yet oil still tries to gravity-return at the same speed, but now with more windage due to an even faster spinning crank.

Anyway, it fits in a 67-69 1st gen subframe without a problem, using big or small block mounts. (I've used both, but currently use small block mounts because of my Powerglide. Factory big blocks only had a TH400 auto and it's crossmember is different.)

69aus:

Gotta love the BBC - This is my reworked Morroso 20401 Side Kick Pan with Traps. Holds 6 quarts, Tall TRW Hi-Pressure (Not Hi-Volume as I previously quoted) Pump for a SBC and Milidon 32270 Full Length Diamond Stripper Tray. Rather then Weld, I tapped and threaded for Bolt through Oil Pump PickUp boss to lock the tube. I believe you might find a Morroso that will accept a full length tray specifically clearing the front mains but with a little work this SetUp works great. Note the BHJ Damper and Donovan Gear Drive. I drilled a 1mm Hole in the Front Psgr Side Oil Lifter Gallery Plug to lub the Gear Drive actually a good mod for timing chains aswell :o))

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4949/1CD5457FF42746819A950A8F9D6092BC.jpg

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4949/6F3A116E3BE9484C8FF74097BF1D87CE.jpg


BlackOutSteve: What's the Brass Nipple and on the Front of the Oil Gallery Rail for - Oil Cooler?

BlackOutSteve: What's the Brass Nipple and on the Front of the Oil Gallery Rail for - Oil Cooler?

That's where I tap my oil pressure gauge into. -Furthest from the pump along the main gallery.

The oil cooler lines are the two #14 fittings above the oil filter boss. Only LS7s and I think L88s had these. I drilled and tapped them myself and use the stock GM bypass spring. Works brilliantly. :thumbsup:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3420/oilcoolerboss003hh7.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oilcoolerboss003hh7.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5634/oilcoolerboss012xv0.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oilcoolerboss012xv0.jpg)

Your still up at this hour. Gads! Learn something every day. Notice that my block is tappet above the oil filter boss as you can see I placed my gauge outlet there and the other one must be plugged or is that my Bell Crank Pivot - Sish, been awhile since I built it but the Pivot must be in its own boss looks higher in the pic. Like your reason for placing the gauge at the far end of the oil rail.

I can't believe your running AC on that monster - lol

This hour is only 9:30pm down here! :p
So, do you run an oil cooler?
I used to via a remote filter, but decided to switch to an oil-water cooler instead of the oil-air after over-cooling the oil. The pan gauge used to say 190F before it was pumped to the engine via the cooler!

Yep, A/C. :thumbsup: It's a car for sunny days and I tired of always being hot in it. Anyway, the engine will never know it's there..

You must be in a cold climate. I see you have a block heater.
Is that a Crane girdle? Mine is. I had to mill it slightly to fit the GMPP valve covers. I decided to fit the girdle after installing the roller cam. The springs are 265/670lbs Isky Toolroom Golds.

It's 5.55 AM here and 30 below and yes that's a Block Heater - lol - North Shore Lake Huron, Ontario, Canada but looking to move to North Carolina and jump a 30ft Ketch to the Bahamas ASAP.

That's a Jomar Pro Girdle not that much different then your's. It has rounded Corners and fits nicely under most Tall Covers.

You must be running a rather Stiff Profiled billet cam with that spring pressure and Hi Gear Ratios.

I run a NASCAR 830cfm Annular Booster Carb on the Edlebrock RPM Air Gap, Com Cams AR288 Cast core with 170/497 lbs, Manley Severe Duty 2.19/1.88 Valves, approx 10.1 to 10.5:1 Compression over a 7.9 to 8.2 DRC depending on head gasket, Crower Severe Duty Hippo's Lifters, Isky Push Rods, Eagle 4130 crank and rods swinging Forged Speed Pro Pistons through a M21 and 12 Bolt Posi that normally has 3.42's but experimenting with 3.08's right now.

She's not a Drag Racer but one Mean HWY Cannonball Cruiser. We have thousands of miles HWY that wind through the Cambrian Shield that literally go nowhere and I really don't require AC - lol

Here's PIC's of my ride and the Engine Bay:

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4815/C7CC003C60914D30BBDD6A6033639D42.jpg

http://www.camaroforums.com/upfiles/4949/863826CF0CD4453290575332301354E4.jpg

By the way like your Pic's of the Oil Bose's.

I am using the Milodon # MIL30955 and the MIL18301 oil pickup. It is a 7 quart pan.

I second this setup. I used it on a gen vi block. crossmember clearance is tight but it works and you'd get an additional 3 quarts

That's where I tap my oil pressure gauge into. -Furthest from the pump along the main gallery.

The oil cooler lines are the two #14 fittings above the oil filter boss. Only LS7s and I think L88s had these. I drilled and tapped them myself and use the stock GM bypass spring. Works brilliantly. :thumbsup:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3420/oilcoolerboss003hh7.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oilcoolerboss003hh7.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5634/oilcoolerboss012xv0.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oilcoolerboss012xv0.jpg)
Steve, add L78/9's. Here's a shot of my L88 before clean-up time last winter. The brass fitting and plumbing is from my L78 and was in the same position prior to the swap.:yes:
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/174.JPG

[quote=BlackoutSteve;904283]This is a High Energy modified pan. Obviously it's a MK IV pan, but a Gen V or VI will look the same.
It has a capacity of around 6 - 6.5 liters or about 5.5 - 6 quarts.
They make them with baffles and windage screens and all that stuff.


Pete, Id hate to see you kill your 502 for the sake of a liter or two of oil. High volume pumps and stock pans are not a good combination.

Thanks Steve,
Will talk to high energy

Peter