I just saw this system featured on horesepower TV this morning. Looks real sweet and easy to install. Plus the price is much more appealing. Anybody install this system yet?
www.retrotekspeed.com/index.php

Might as ell put a tb efi on the car, you'll prob get the same results. I saw it and thought it was a very cool simple install but spend a little more time and get a multi point efi

I just saw this system featured on horesepower TV this morning. Looks real sweet and easy to install. Plus the price is much more appealing. Anybody install this system yet?
www.retrotekspeed.com/index.php

you give up one of the biggest advantages of efi which is having the injector right at the port of the head, and going back to a tbi system. The tuning looks fairly basic, but it should work.

Personal opinion, it'd probably work well enough, especially for those who want a simple swap from a carb. That appears to be their target audience. It isn't going to be in the FAST, Accel, BigStuff3 category though as far as adjustability and overall performance.

Jody

Retrotek's "claim to fame" is "Self-tuning software"

For years, OEM's have had a "Block learn" table in thier software. While "O2 compensation" is an instant calculation based on conditions of the moment, "Block Learn" kapt track of these questions and answers, and if the same questions and the same answers keep coming up, they get added to the "Block learn" table and from there, "permanently modify the base fuel and timing maps.

That's why after having your car serviced (if they disconnected the battery) they tell you it might run funny for a week or to, all the block learn data was "forgotten."

Retrotek claims to have taken this a step further, and developed a program that will create it's own fuel and spark tables.

Pure "no tune" tuning.

This is a pretty great thing if it actually works, and I'm waiting with baited breath for someone to post if it works. This type of tuning is one thing I know Holley is considering as they work toward completely revamping and updating thier C950 hardware and software.

What everyone has "SEEN" of Retrotek is thier TBI unit that "looks like a Bary Grant Carb"
This is a very small part of thier product line, it is just unusual and cool enough to have gotten a lot of play in the magazines.
They also support "port injection" systems of many types, including the ability to retrofit thier computer to an OEM system.

As for the TBI crack, what the heck is wrong with injecting fuel at the throttle body?

It's certainly NEVER a worse solution than running a carburator. It gives ALL the advantages of port injection except a dry manifold. The dry manifold can be nice of course, particularly with OEM's dealing with wierd packaging issues. Most current oem intakes would have a plenum full of raw fuel if they tried to run them wet. On the other hand, a conventional V8 in a car that doesn't limit packaging has some pretty good wet flow characteristics. If a holley 4bbl on a vic jr can run in the low 9's and produce excellent cylinder to cylinder mixture distribution, a 4bbl tbi flowing 900 or more cfm will certainly do as well.

A lot of people are scared of EFI, and many can't afford it. Yet, a (really good) new holley or BG carb costs $700, and the fuel system to support it will cost another $300.

A holley 4bbl 900 cfm TBI costs $1400, and all the expensive fuel system stuff is in the box.

A Holley port injection system costs $2400, and all you get extra is an intake manifold and 4 more injectors.

And the holley is one of the cheaper port injection systems.

I agree Jim, Retrotek says on there site they make both multi port and throttle body. They say the lower RPM engines benefit from the TBI. Because they are mixing the fuel at a higher point in the manifold. And for me who runs a 454 this is a good thing. In addition it looks like a carb set up. Attaches with minimal hassle as far as linkages etc, uses the single feed system, and comes running out of the box for $2K .I am very interested in this system and will keep an eye on it for a future upgrade. Thanks for the info.

As for the TBI crack, what the heck is wrong with injecting fuel at the throttle body?



real men don't run tbi.................. :p

Jody

LMAO@Jody...

Ya wanna comp me one o yer twin turbo monsters?

These guys that spend all there money buying sockets when they could go with a MPFI , Oh well jim maybe in 2009 .
Mark.

In 4 weeks I'm planning to order the Retrotek 1200 cfm system.(I'm playing the 'float' on my credit card. I'd rather cut off an arm than pay interest) It'll replace my Projection4. Unless someone here talks me out of it, of course.
A couple points sell me;
First, the higher the injectors, the more power. Never seen a dyno test that DIDN'T back this up.
Second, I get to keep my Torquer2 manifold. It would be really hard to weld bungs to it.
Third, (Hope you guys know that there would be more than a couple reasons:yes:) I get to KEEP my ducted hood system intact. Fuel rails would interfere with the air cleaner. With the Retrotek system I get to keep a 'system' that Hotrod Magazine says is worth 45-50 horsepower.
PROBLEM, I have .4 seconds to go until I would be required to run a roll bar. If this system puts me under 11.5 sec ET, why bother to install that roller cam I've picked out???:confused:
Of course I'll keep everyone posted regarding tuning. Unless someone talks me out of it.;)

Have you checked out the installation instructions? http://www.retrotekspeed.com/product_images/product-installation_pdf-129.pdf It is nice that they give you the part numbers for some of the components so you can get replacements at your local auto parts store.

I had not seriously considered EFI until I saw this setup. Simple, clean, and self learning.

Please let us know how it works for you Fred.

Have you checked out the installation instructions? http://www.retrotekspeed.com/product_images/product-installation_pdf-129.pdf It is nice that they give you the part numbers for some of the components so you can get replacements at your local auto parts store.

I had not seriously considered EFI until I saw this setup. Simple, clean, and self learning.

Please let us know how it works for you Fred.
Will do, guaranteed.
Yes, I've poured through the instructions and talked to the company owner. He's lining up some alcohol injectors for me. (more fuel capacity) I'm going to call again tomorrow to get things moving, unless someone talks me out of it.;)
Oh, This system needs a Aeromotive EFI fuel pump. Those are owner supplied and not cheap. I'm also planning a new fuel tank with a sump. Hey, might as well 'look' nasty.

Oh, This system needs a Aeromotive EFI fuel pump. Those are owner supplied and not cheap. I'm also planning a new fuel tank with a sump. Hey, might as well 'look' nasty.

Ah yes, the hidden costs. Doesn't look like it's going to be under $2k now. You'll probably need an owner provided 10 micron fuel filter and regulator too.

Ah yes, the hidden costs. Doesn't look like it's going to be under $2k now. You'll probably need an owner provided 10 micron fuel filter and regulator too.
Hammered, it never was under two grand. The base price for a 1200cfm system is $2700.

I like this sytem and the plus is it looks like a carb and has one fuel line. For a person like me that would like to have FI but and still have old school looks this is a great new product. The advanatages of FI can be relized with this system and we can still keep a stock style look. I put one on my list of dream parts.

Joe

OK men. You better hurry if you're gonna talk me out of it. I just called Retrotek and talked to Mark. I learned that they have at least a six week lead time for delivery. If I waited the 4 weeks (for my credit card float) I wouldn't see the system until mid March. When Mark said that they don't charge the card until shipment,,,I ORDERED IT! It'll be shiny black on the throttle body and polished 'floats'. A match to my valve covers and other stuff. But don't give up. I can still cancel. Standing by for negative input,,,,,,:secret:

so does that add up to 10 weeks, or 6?
It still wouldn't meet my "instant gratification" needs...
You do know you can put a c950 computer on the EFI ya got for less than a thousand, right?

edit: or can ya? Does your throttle body have all the sensors?

I for sure need to see some closeup pics of this "carburater" with 30 wires coming out the back of it!

so does that add up to 10 weeks, or 6?
It still wouldn't meet my "instant gratification" needs...
You do know you can put a c950 computer on the EFI ya got for less than a thousand, right?

edit: or can ya? Does your throttle body have all the sensors?

I for sure need to see some closeup pics of this "carburater" with 30 wires coming out the back of it!
Jim, my Projection4 has no sensors. Only a O2 sensor can be retrofitted. All adjusting is with pots on the the cpu in the glove box. About as low tech as can be made. Runs like it too.
The instructions for the Retrotek system are on their web site (adobe formate) Full color too. Lots of looks underneath.
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/bossefi/bossefi-single-quad.html
I expect delivery in 6 weeks. Hey, they build 'em. No middle man.

You can convert your existing TBI unit to any aftermarket ECU such as a Commander 950. Your TBI has a TPS. Add a MAP and coolant and air sensor (and O2) and you are in business. The main TBI unit doesn't change.

You can convert your existing TBI unit to any aftermarket ECU such as a Commander 950. Your TBI has a TPS. Add a MAP and coolant and air sensor (and O2) and you are in business. The main TBI unit doesn't change.
Not changing is the problem. It's too small. I want bigger. And my CPU is not compatible with those sensors either, except it does sense temp. Even if the throttle body were big enough for my engine, the ECU couldn't use those sensors. Nope, time to buy a Pentium.:thumbsup:

Not changing is the problem. It's too small. I want bigger. And my CPU is not compatible with those sensors either, except it does sense temp. Even if the throttle body were big enough for my engine, the ECU couldn't use those sensors. Nope, time to buy a Pentium.:thumbsup:


I know your ECU can't but any aftermarket ECU from today can run your TBI, although it probably doesn't have an IAC.

I agree Jim, Retrotek says on there site they make both multi port and throttle body. They say the lower RPM engines benefit from the TBI. Because they are mixing the fuel at a higher point in the manifold. And for me who runs a 454 this is a good thing. In addition it looks like a carb set up. Attaches with minimal hassle as far as linkages etc, uses the single feed system, and comes running out of the box for $2K .I am very interested in this system and will keep an eye on it for a future upgrade. Thanks for the info.

Hammered, it never was under two grand. The base price for a 1200cfm system is $2700.

Maybe MileHigh was referring to a smaller system but that would be a big difference.

I ordered mine yesterday. The only question I am debating is whether to go with returnless now or the return type because I may upgrade my HP later and will need a return line. Anybody know if you can buy an Intank fuel pump for a stock tank? Anybody have any good suggestions on how to do this? I need to add a return line to my current stock tank. What is the best way to connect to it? BTW the 2K price came from Horesepower TV. When I called it is higher though. Oh well.
Thanks

When I installed my Projection I had to run a return line. That also meant the tank had to come out so the return could be silver-soldered next to the pickup. My old stuff should be re-usable with the Retrotek system but I'm seriously considering an new tank and a weld-on sump. My 1200cfm system needs an Aeromotive fuel pump and regulator too. I can run it inside my old tank too,,,,but, probably not.

Real men run carbs!

Anybody know if you can buy an Intank fuel pump for a stock tank? Anybody have any good suggestions on how to do this? I need to add a return line to my current stock tank. What is the best way to connect to it? BTW the 2K price came from Horesepower TV. When I called it is higher though. Oh well.
Thanks

Take a look at this: http://www.thedetailzone.com/Tanks%20Fuel%20Pump%20Install.htm

I would run returnless or return near the tank if possible. I had problems with the fuel tank heating up with my return system.

Thanks I saw this also. Looks like the way to go. The tanks unit will fit in my OEM like tank.

When I installed my Projection I had to run a return line. That also meant the tank had to come out so the return could be silver-soldered next to the pickup. My old stuff should be re-usable with the Retrotek system but I'm seriously considering an new tank and a weld-on sump. My 1200cfm system needs an Aeromotive fuel pump and regulator too. I can run it inside my old tank too,,,,but, probably not.

Fred: A new tank is going to run you between $700 & $1000, but it may be worth it. (I went w/ a Rock Valley for lower cost.) Would you keep me up to date on your progress with Retrotek? I'm thinking of switching my Holley C950 over to a Retrotek computer. The only thing slowing me down is the hope that Holley will come out with a replacement (new) box for the C950. That could be 2 weeks or 2 years from now, though (sorry Doug!). Thanks, Todd

Will do Todd, but why so much for a tank?

Will do Todd, but why so much for a tank?

Hi, Fred: Rock Valley built a '67 Camaro tank for me with a sump, electric fuel pump, sending unit, outlet fitting, and return line fitting. I told them the expected fuel pressure and GPM so that they could size the pump correctly. Nice guys, too! They shipped to my home (Salem, Or.) when completed, so I think that's how the cost got to about $700.00. There are some guys (Texas, I think) who make a really nice stainless tank for a Camaro, and their price is higher, of course. Anyway, that's how things wound up down here. If you don't mind, let me know how it goes w/ you gas tank, too (along w/ Retrotek). Thanks, Todd

Oh! That's the whole system except the line to/from the engine. And includes labor. OK, that's a fair price. I hope to keep the labor 'in the family'.:yes:

Oh! That's the whole system except the line to/from the engine. And includes labor. OK, that's a fair price. I hope to keep the labor 'in the family'.:yes:

I forgot to mention that you'll need to paint/powder coat the tank (when you get it), but you probably already had that figured out, anyway.

Yeah, here's my old tank. Paint is on the list.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/246.JPG

I can't imagine how it can self-learn the spark tables without a knock sensor. With a wideband O2, it certainly could, with good algorithms, figure almost everything to do with fuel out over time. But for spark, there's no feedback, so how can it check its guesses?

I'd also be curious about to what extent it learns. The block learn on factory ecms is pretty weak... basically an offset from "norm" in a table of rpm vs load, or similar.

If they were really ambitious, they could even adjust fuel vs delta map and delta TPS (accelerator pump feature, basically) by guessing values, watching the O2 and RPM result, and improving over time. No idea if they get that fancy, though.

I don't know.
My system has no spark innerface. I adjust it in the car with a knob. I program the tables with a spark value. It likes 20°. But if your car has a controlable spark, it will work with it. Now you know all I know about it. What was that, two lines?