Who can show me some pics or give some direction in how to most cleanly bring 2 fuel lines, supply and return, into the back of an EFI manifold?

Hi Jim, don't know that I have any pictures but what I did was bought two pre bent steel 3/8 fuel lines for the 67 and then cut off the ends. Then I bought some handy tube to AN fittings and used them to connect the braided lines to the steel. Then ran the braided lines in the back to the tank and the lines in the front to the fuel rails. In the front I installed a fuel filter on the outside of the subframe just before where the stock fuel line would make it's way back over the subframe and into the engine compartment.

You know, just because it's you....I could snap some pictures if you want.


In this pic, you can see the braided lines on the firewall...

http://www.stratagaz.com/67L30M35RS/67CamaroRSHSR01.jpg

I did the same thing, but I only used a single 3/8" line since my regulator is at the tank. I bought a new stainless line from Rick's, cut off the ends, and re-bent it a little at the tank and under the hood. I used Swagelok -6AN to compression fittings on each end. Everything between the ends is under/in the stock clips. You should be able to do the same thing with two lines--may need to replace some clips.

http://www.blown.net/ls1swap/DSCF3937.jpg

http://www.blown.net/ls1swap/DSCF3972.jpg

Hi Jim, don't know that I have any pictures but what I did was bought two pre bent steel 3/8 fuel lines for the 67 and then cut off the ends. Then I bought some handy tube to AN fittings and used them to connect the braided lines to the steel. Then ran the braided lines in the back to the tank and the lines in the front to the fuel rails. In the front I installed a fuel filter on the outside of the subframe just before where the stock fuel line would make it's way back over the subframe and into the engine compartment.

You know, just because it's you....I could snap some pictures if you want.


In this pic, you can see the braided lines on the firewall...

http://www.stratagaz.com/67L30M35RS/67CamaroRSHSR01.jpg

Sounds about identical to how mine is done! :yes:

jim, there is a a guy over on protouring with a firebird that did 2 half inch lines front to rear. im looking for the link to his page that has some really good pictures.

Thanks for the shots, guys.
It's the underhood area I'm looking for, the rest is handled.
Anyone else?
Jody?

This is how mine may end up...my intake has space all the way to the rear, so i cleaned it up by running the feed, and return under it...I do have the lines in insulation wrap so they dont get heat from the intake.

They come out the back towards the pass side under the heater core, then to the subframe.

Dont have any pics of that though, sorry. I dont know what intake you have so you might not be able to do as I did...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q218/merlinpro69/105_0582.jpg

do you have any problems for the fuel getting hot in the lines under the intake?

do you have any problems for the fuel getting hot in the lines under the intake?

I cant say for sure, as I have not had the system on that long.
I have insulation that covers the lines under the intake, as I do for my power steering lines that run near the header.

I need more time to give you an honest answer, but I think it should be ok though...if they were not covered in the wrap, I would think it would get a little warm...i wanted a cleaner look, thats why i did the under the intake thing.

If It becomes a heat problem, then I guess it would be off to plan "b"!

Who can show me some pics or give some direction in how to most cleanly bring 2 fuel lines, supply and return, into the back of an EFI manifold?

I'm a big proponent of not bypassing the hot fuel from the rails back to the tank, so I don't mount the regulator up on the engine, it's at the back of the car. Then there's only one line up into the engine compartment, split with a "Y" behind the engine into the two fuel rails, with a balance tube from rail to rail at the front. In this pic there's no front crossover tube from the front of the rails, just a gauge in one and blocked off the other. You have to look hard to see the "Y" on the passenger rear next to the distributor, with stainless hard line feeding into the rear of the drivers rail, and a 45 fitting from the passenger rail to the "Y". Normally I put the crossover tube up front from rail to rail, but it worked fine without.

http://camcojb.com/zl1index/zl1motorhat.jpg

Jody

by the way, if you don't want the regulator in the back then at least mount it off the engine and before the rails, so the bypassed fuel doesn't get heated by the rails first. It will still heat up this way as the regulator is in the engine compartment, but not as bad as if it was after the rails. The fuel heating issue shows up on long drives, Power Tour is a perfect example. There were several cars stuck on the side of the road on a 200-300 mile daily drive from town to town, that had never had an issue before. Thing is, they only cruised around their home town in short spurts, and this was their first long drive time.

Jody

My setup, using a holley 4bbl TBI, has the regulator built into the throttle body. supply and return are 3/8" pipe thread, facing straight back, 2" on each side of the engine centerline. I'll need "tee's" with 1/8 pipe fittings for pressure gauge taps, and then work my way to the hardlines on the frame rail.

The most obvious solution is to run hardlines around and forward along the manifold, then braided flex from the water pump area to the frame.

I just loath the thought of sticking those pipes to the top of my motor tho...

My setup, using a holley 4bbl TBI, has the regulator built into the throttle body. supply and return are 3/8" pipe thread, facing straight back, 2" on each side of the engine centerline. I'll need "tee's" with 1/8 pipe fittings for pressure gauge taps, and then work my way to the hardlines on the frame rail.

The most obvious solution is to run hardlines around and forward along the manifold, then braided flex from the water pump area to the frame.

I just loath the thought of sticking those pipes to the top of my motor tho...

why can't they go from the rear of the engine? If you want to tone them down use black braided lines and fittings. With the flex lines like above you can route them away from the exhaust, probably along the firewall over the headers under the heater box and then down to the frame. Plus the black fabric braided lines don't pick up as much heat, and you could add insulating sleeves for high temps for more protection, at least where they go over the headers.

Jody

Jim Jody's got the right idea for what you want. Run hard lines from the tank up the stock location then cut them and transition to braided flex down at the fram rail under the heater box and run the line up to the backside of the throttle body. Just make a bracket to support the hoses from the passenger rear intake bolt or manifold boss and not the firewall. This should still keep you legal to run at the track.

I couldn't copy a picture of your car to use so I used one of mine. It's kinda crude but you get the idea.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c87/HarleyD67/FuellineforJim.jpg

jim here is the site i was talking about http://john.my67.net/engine1.htm

i did single 1/2 stainless line to the motor, with an aeromotive bypass near the gas tank. i also used a barry grant fuel cooler mounted near the rockers. i did mine based on this post http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22935

Revisiting this again, time to get serious about gittin-er-done.

There's some good stuff here that I didn't see before for some reason. Will for sure wade thru that entire post on latG, tx for that link.

Harley, you showed the fuel lines going over the valve cover and mentioned something about tech at the track. What are the rules here, and how persnickety could people get?
I'd really like to run the lines BEHIND the head if I could, and would actually clamp them TO the back of the head.
Can someone (with an engine in the car) measure between the back of the pass head and the firewall, let me know how much space is there?

My thinking right now is to fab up a bracket attached to the firewall, where the ground straps attach. Bend the fuel lines up, fasten to the bracket for support, and cut them off.
I'd put tube to -6an males on the ends of the hardlines, 90 degree AN fittings to bring the lines across under the heater, behind the head, and up to the throttle body.
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/2008engine/fuel1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~Jimragtop2/2008engine/tbi1.jpg

I'd really like to run the lines BEHIND the head if I could, and would actually clamp them TO the back of the head.
Can someone (with an engine in the car) measure between the back of the pass head and the firewall, let me know how much space is there?

A little less than two inches....You sure you want them fuel lines touching the head? They get a bit warm.

Jim, here's my year old stuff. Well, 9 month old stuff. I have a Holley system similar to yours. It's coming out. A 1200 cfm Retrotek system is on-order. I ran the two fuel lines up the front of the engine as you can see. At the rear are two 90° AN swivels. The pipe fittings into the throttle body on mine are 1/4", not 3/8". I cut off my original 3/8" fuel line nipple to fit this stuff.:sad: I kept the end of the pipe in my memory parts box.
I can't tell you how this works on a long trip. The TCI Super Street Fighter kinda prevents those kinda trips unless I tow an auxiliary fuel tank on a trailer.
Anyway, I'm off to study the links posted earlier.
What were you welding this morning? Oh, here's the picture. Maybe you could use some of this stuff.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/230.JPG

Jim I know you can't mount the regulator off the firewall, but I'm not sure about the lines themselves. I don't have the new rule book but I know Sean (http://www.camaros.net/forums/member.php?u=9609) does. And I'm sure he could tell you if there is any issues with running the lines there. I think it would be a cleaner look and less heat run up along the firewall. You may even fab a small aluminum heat shield similar to the wire loom holder over the trans tunnel. As far as Byron goes if it where braided flex from the heater box on up I don't think you would have any issues. Then again I don't think Joliet would even let your car in the water box, but there pretty hard core on tech as they need to be being a much higher class track. (meaning NHRA, NMCA, and all the other sportsmen classes)

Jim, here's my year old stuff. Well, 9 month old stuff. I have a Holley system similar to yours. It's coming out. A 1200 cfm Retrotek system is on-order. I ran the two fuel lines up the front of the engine as you can see. At the rear are two 90° AN swivels. The pipe fittings into the throttle body on mine are 1/4", not 3/8". I cut off my original 3/8" fuel line nipple to fit this stuff.:sad: I kept the end of the pipe in my memory parts box.
I can't tell you how this works on a long trip. The TCI Super Street Fighter kinda prevents those kinda trips unless I tow an auxiliary fuel tank on a trailer.
Anyway, I'm off to study the links posted earlier.
What were you welding this morning? Oh, here's the picture. Maybe you could use some of this stuff.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/230.JPG
Whew! Studying this stuff, especially when $$$$$$ are involved is :sad:. But I learned that the guys are right about keeping the regulator at the rear of the car. In conferring with Retrotek, they agree that keeping the regulator at the rear, near the pump, is a good thing. That means the only things to worry about are making sure to use the hose sizes recommended by Aeromotive and to properly monitor the pressure at the manifold. I'll set the pressure with my guage dead-headed at the throttle and have also ordered the pressure sensor option for the throttle body so as to download a reading to the laptop. I love this site!:hurray: My system ships Tuesday. The old tank is out, the sump is at my son's house and the new tank arrives at his place soon. We swap stuff next weekend.:thumbsup:

Fred
Are you mounting your regulator at the tank? I called Mark at Retrotek and he said you need to use the vacuum boost on the regulator. So this made me change my plans to mount it up front. Does your regulator have a vacuum port?

Fred
Are you mounting your regulator at the tank? I called Mark at Retrotek and he said you need to use the vacuum boost on the regulator. So this made me change my plans to mount it up front. Does your regulator have a vacuum port?
Serious? Mark said that?! I have the vacuum port but I'll be mounting the regulator at the tank. That's too far for the vacuum signal. It's an Aeromotive regulator. The instructions say the port can be left unhooked.
Why did Mark say that????

Fred
I asked him that specific question and he said it would be best to have the port attached to the vacuum line. He also said it would be to far to run to the back so he suggested I bring it up front. I don't have a boosted application and don't have as much HP as you so I am going yo try it at the back. So much simpler, hopefully it works better to.

Thanks for that MH. I better get to work on the install. This is todays job.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/277.JPG

Fred
Are those holes on your tank for your retrorockets?

The vacuum referenced regs give you more "leeway" with injector size.
While it's really bad to run out of fuel at high rpm's, it's also tough on tuning to have to run too short a puslewidth at idle.
Cutting the pressure back at high vacuum helps.

They tell me my holley TBI deasn't use a vacuum referenced reg, and my fuel pressures bear that out. It does however have a progressive linkage, and the software shuts off the rear 2 injectors untill the secondaries start to open. That helps a lot.

Yesterday tho, I had to cut my fuel pressure back from 21 psi to 16. Pulse width at idle was under 2 msec, too short. At 16 psi, I';m up around 4 msec, much better. I may try 18 psi, see how that goes.

I need to find time to put up some pics of my fuel lines, too, they turned out pretty nice.

And guess what? I drove her around the block yesterday morning!!

Thanks for the tuning warning Jim. The tank's in. Pictures will be up as soon as I kick-back. I'm going to mock-up the fuel pump and filters right now. You don't mind if I copy your mount-idea, do you Jim?
Mock-up.
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/280.JPG