I live in the wonderful rustbelt of Illinois and my car was also stored just north of Salt Lake City, Ut. for 2 years so it's not had an easy life. I've had it since mid 80's and tried my best to stay on top of it the best I could, to no avail.

The other day I was fiddling with my car and decided to jack up the passenger side. I put the hyd floor jack under the frame near the end and as I'm jacking it up I hear a "Pop". I noticed the pinchweld had broke in half. My rockers are rusted badly as is the floorpan near the curve where it goes from the rocker pinchweld to the horizontal section of the floorpan. Since it was already broke I got to probing around and a vertical section of pinchweld about 3" long fell out.

Is this the kiss of death for my car? I know this car can be replaced cheaper than it would cost to repair but I'm sure we all know about sentimental value. I'm almost about ready to accept this thing being doomed tho. It needs both 1/4's, rockers, floorpans, inner & outer wheelwells, the complete trunk, the section behind the rear window, tailpan section, doors,.....um, you get the picture. I have most of this stuff already. I drive a truck and have maybe 1 day a week to do anything and zilch for bodywork experience.

I need some advice. Am I giving up too easily or is it realistically gone? Maybe I should just look for a better body to start my Pro-Touring scheme on. This will be basically a street car and not a showpiece so I'm not looking for perfection, just something with a decent end result.

Thanks for listening.

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Doug Gulley
'69 RS

Without Trucks, America Stops!!!

[This message has been edited by 69TPI383 (edited 03-09-2002).]

Doug, I have a 69 Camaro that originaly came from Buffalo, NY. You can be sure It has seen a hard life with all the snow and road salt it got in its early years. I got it 23 years ago and it never saw winter ever again. Even with that, it had a rusted body and underside as bad as or worse than yours. I had too much history with the car to just part it out so I bought some tools and went to work on it. I had done a small amount of welding/fabrication in High school so I felt comfotable tackling the job. My expectations were to get it back to safe, solid, fun and drivable but not a showpiece that would fool anyone who looked underneath that it was an original Arizona car. I replaced the entire body except for the Upper & lower valance, roof, 1 door frame, and one inner front fender. Floors, trunk, quarters, you name it. All new repro, NOS, or cherry used parts. The job takes lots of time, lots of tools, lots of money. I had the time, money, and now have the tools. I will realy enjoy telling people I built it myself.

Was it cost effective? - no.
Was it fun? - sometimes.
Would I do it again? - It would go much faster next time, I already have the tools, but unless it was a very special car, no.

There are solid original cars still out there in Arizona etc that are begging for a good old fashioned hot rodding. Find a solid shell to start with and cut the work load by more than half. Some stuff you have now could be used on the project and the rest sold to pay for it.

If you decide to fix it yourself, I would advise you to sit down with a calculator and add up all the parts and tools costs first, then compare that to what nice cars sell for. Don't forget paint, tools and supplies. Your time is "free". Forget about getting your money out of it in the end. Ain't gonna happen. Good luck what ever you decide,
-Mark.

Been there, doin that, almost finished!

I would fix it , I break this stuff down into little project's , like just do the floor's don't think about anything else , then do the 1/4's , then the rocker's and so on ,
it can be cost efective but only if you do it all yourself ,
I have a friend that is restoring a 1970 boss 302 mustang (I know I know)
but just for example he got the boss in 1976
and is still working on it today ,
he has never been behind the wheel but look's like he will soon , as for me I have fixed car's almost as bad but have got lucky on my current 67 RS it had one rusted fender and that was it .
just think it over and good luck !!!!


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69 camaro traded for 67 camaro traded back for 69 now back with a 67 rs WILL IT NEVER END ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I HOPE NOT .
ADVENTURE'S IN RUST REPAIR

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have a friend that is restoring a 1970 boss 302 mustang (I know I know) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I know what? A boss mustang is an awesome and very respectable car to own.

As far as the question, its probably cost effective to just buy another car but really its up to you. Who knows, after you figure what kind of money it would take to restore it, you might be able to just buy yourself a pace car or something.

Dave

[This message has been edited by Scooby Doo (edited 03-09-2002).]

I'm somewhat confused about the actually rusted areas of your car, but my rockers were like Swiss cheese..I found a doner 67 Firebird that some kid was trying to tubb out and abandoned. I removed the outer rockers for my 67 Camaro, but I still have the original inner rockers if you need them..They're not 'mint' but no rust holes and the lower pinchweld area is fine. These are for coupe and I think 69 may be the same. Also remember, there arent THAT many cars out there that don't need multipul panel replacement, so remember you're not alone!

scoobydoo I ment no offense about the mustang I just thought it was kind of funny and I would use it as referense to this topic , I am a chevy guy all the way and would not take a ford or other brand if you gave me one , yes even the boss ,allthough I have watched my friend work on it so long I sort of like it as long as it stay's at his house and not mine , I respect all car's and the people that work on them , and would never say anything bad about anyone's car no matter what it was , I just like chevy's ,
and by the way in the time my friend has worked on the boss he has completed two frame off resto's on a 68 SS350 camaro and 69 plain jane camaro , he will tell you hiself that one of the reason's for it taking so long on the boss is that he doe's not have the same amount of interest in it as the camaro's

Let me say again I respect all car's and anybody that will pick up a wrench !!!
http://www.camaros.net/forum/eek.gif but I am a chevy guy forever http://www.camaros.net/forum/eek.gif

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69 camaro traded for 67 camaro traded back for 69 now back with a 67 rs WILL IT NEVER END ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I HOPE NOT .
ADVENTURE'S IN RUST REPAIR

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1967 Panther:
I'm somewhat confused about the actually rusted areas of your car, but my rockers were like Swiss cheese..I found a doner 67 Firebird that some kid was trying to tubb out and abandoned. I removed the outer rockers for my 67 Camaro, but I still have the original inner rockers if you need them..They're not 'mint' but no rust holes and the lower pinchweld area is fine. These are for coupe and I think 69 may be the same. Also remember, there arent THAT many cars out there that don't need multipul panel replacement, so remember you're not alone!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You make a very valid point of not many cars left that don't need some type
of panel replacement. The area on mine that had me freaking out was
directly behind the pinchweld where it curves up and forms the floorpan.
After closer inspection tonight, it is only a section about 12" long that is
really bad. I *think* I seen somewhere they now make a floorpan section
that includes the part where the floorpan curves downward and joins the
pinchweld. I have new floorpans but I bought these years ago and mine do
not include this section.

1967 Panther....I'll take some measurements and try to get some pics of the
area I'm needing so we can figure out if you have what I need. I'm not
looking for totally correct stuff, besides, I too, believe the 67 & my 69
have the same floorpans. The guy who'll be doing the work restores Camaros
and he has a few used cars for parts so he may have the needed floorpan
sections I need too. I'll definately be getting in touch with you and let
you know one way or another if I need em. Thanks! http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

It's gonna take some work, it's gonna beat hell outta my wallet but I've
decided to fix this car! "We've" been thru way too much to turn my back on
her now. LOL...it's like asking how much is one of your kids health worth.
To me...it's priceless and this car is part of me, it's a member of my
family! Ok...enough of the soggy eyes sentimental stuff....sorry guys http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

Thanks for everyone's ideas and thoughts but this one's gonna be saved even
if it puts me in the poorhouse....and that won't take much!


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Doug Gulley
'69 RS

Without Trucks, America Stops!!!

Well, I feel your pain. I'm traveling down the 'rustification' road myself. As stated, I don't think I would do it again but I love this car. As far as floorpans, I just bought the US made full floor pans that run from the toeboard to the rear seta back seam. They're great.

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips ( yet ).

mebe_epp,

Definately to each his own on their tastes. I tried sending you an email but it bounced. Ask your friend if he wants to sell his boss if he doesn't have much interest in it. Thanks.

Dave

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RickD:
Well, I feel your pain. I'm traveling down the 'rustification' road myself. As stated, I don't think I would do it again but I love this car. As far as floorpans, I just bought the US made full floor pans that run from the toeboard to the rear seta back seam. They're great.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the way you feel RickD. If it wasn't a labor of love, I'd have myself commited to an asylum for even thinking about trying to save this car http://www.camaros.net/forum/eek.gif

RickD....on your floorpans, do they include the section on the outside where it turns down and joins the pinchweld? I think the newer pans include this but the full pans I bought years ago don't include this. I may have to *re-buy* some more new ones that have this section. Oh well...whatever it takes for my baby http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

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Doug Gulley
'69 RS

Without Trucks, America Stops!!!

Doug, if it's just your floorpans that are rusted, it wouldn't be the cause your you car "sagging". Floorpans do very little stuctually.

I don't really think it's sagging *yet*. The doors still close good but after seeing that I could just imagine car folding up. I guess I just freaked a little early after seeing that. The rockers are gone too so I need to get *something* done just in case tho. Thanks for that info tho..makes me feel a lot better!

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Doug Gulley
'69 RS

Without Trucks, America Stops!!!

Yeah, they turn down by the inner rocker. They also go up to the top of the tranny tunnel. Plenty of metal to trim to just what you need. Very nice stamping. Came in Goodmark boxes. I wonder who's doing the stamping?

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips ( yet ).

first off, move away from salt lake, the name alone is or should be scarey enough for metal and a old car..

but if you have the $$$ , you can save it, otherwise, there are plenty more in better shape then yours is right now,. and taking a "on the cheap" look, it would probably cost less to get another car in better condition then to buy the parts + repair the current car, so its your call. just dont think you have to repair it... sentimental value? it can always live outside with the other cars... or you can paint the new car just like it... like my dad always said. always keep some extra change in your pocket, you never know when you will need it.

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Chris's 67 RS/SS,can be seen at http://www.67rs.com
check out another site once in a while! http://www.fbodyconnection.com

if this helps you i live on okinawa japan an island out in the middle of the ocean and its only 60 miles long and 17 miles wide if you want to see rust just look at my car(link below) i love working on it wont trade it for the world. go buy you a cheap rice burner rebuild yours and set the rice burner on fire or enter it in a derby dont just quite i have had a lot of cars in my life and i regret getting rid of everyone of them even just giving up on them. and to the ones that are ford chevy or mopar or ricer lovers it is all about the car and the love of horsepower i got ford tattooed on my arm and i got a web site with a 68 rs/ss on it. so save your self and just fix it cuz u will hate your self later and i bet the rest will agree on that.

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free 68 in japan my first chevy http://www.geocities.com/claycitydude/68

[This message has been edited by claycityman (edited 03-10-2002).]

If your car is in that bad of condition, go find another one and enjoy it this summer, and the summers to come. My wife and I are on our 18th camaro and we have had many good times in them all. There comes a time when you need to start a new chapter (or camaro) It may take along time and alot of money to fix your car and chances are that you will never recoup your investment, and beleave me you will be wearing the same smile in the next camaro as you did in the one you have now.

If you take speedy-z's advice, just make sure you sell your old car to someone that WILL restore it.

Just remember, that they don't make 1st gen. Camaro's anymore and they aren't ever going to! Every car that gets crushed is one less oportunity to keep them alive!

Mega Ditto to what PDQUICK said! I could not agree more. I'm doing my part at saving a car that probably would have been crushed (would have done more crumbling then crushing). It’s was an old rusted 6 cyc car and is still a WIP. You know...the nice thing about working on a basket case is the freedom of a blank slate and any need to follow specific rules. I almost look at my project car as a custom kit car which happens to closely resemble a ’69 Camaro http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif. I’m a first time restorer/restifier, and I’ll tear into old panels such as cutting off bad quarters and filling in cowl holes (I’m using Vintage Air) without an once of hesitation.

When I’m done, I’ll drive it hard without hesitation too! With my new Chassis Works Subframe, up coming Moser rear, 383, and 6 speed, I’ll carve corners and run circles around any stock numbers car around, including any $100K+ copo out there. Of course those cars will obviously run big time circles around me on the show circuit and collector car market, but I’m not into that.

If you do a basket case, just realize you’ll never ever get your money back out of it when selling it, so just go with it and drive the hell out it for the rest of your life… I’ll get rid if it in either my Will or at my Estate sale (I’m, 38 http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif, so if it takes me $25K+ to complete this project, which is still less then most new cars, that’s OK...'ll get my money out of it over the next 30 or 40 years &lt;even taking future upgrades and fixes into consideration&gt;.

Craig R
Project journal at www.craig-on.com (http://www.craig-on.com)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PDQUICK:
...
Just remember, that they don't make 1st gen. Camaro's anymore and they aren't ever going to! Every car that gets crushed is one less oportunity to keep them alive!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

craigon

man you have an extensive journal of your work, Great job so far, you need to gwet a Guestbook so we can all sign it. I have oh far to go on mine,

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Chris's 67 RS/SS,can be seen at http://www.67rs.com
check out another site once in a while! http://www.fbodyconnection.com

Just thought I would mention this option. If there is a local Community College in your area and they offer night classes in auto body, then check it out. You'll have the tools and be able to get some good advice to your problems that are at hand. I'm in the middle of restoring my '67 convertible and it has worked out well so far! Good luck!