I was wondering if someone could go out and take a quick snapshot of the rack on a 1st gen Camaro.

I am installing a rack and it looks kinda close to the lower control arm when it's turned all the way one way or the other.

I just need a pic from the front of the tire, either side, looking toward the tie rod.

Thanks for any help,

Joe

Ist off, we don't have racks on our cars so which rack are you asking about b/c that MAY make a heck of a difference in aftermarket product fitment??

pdq67

Yeah, sorry about that. It's a custom build. The rack is from an 00 Z-28 LS1.

Joe

I can't help you, but I would like pics and info on you swap, thinking about using the late model rack on my car. My email is tommy_wilson@bellsouth.net

Tommy, I finally got everything buttoned up this past weekend. WHAT A CHORE! out of this whole LS1 build, the steering has been the biggest headache yet. But it's done and in the book. Here is what I did.........

Used a rack and pinion out of a 2000 Camaro (Z-28). Pulled off the inner tie rod ends and then mounted it in the stock subframe. That meant I had to cut a pretty large portion out of the subframe to accomodate the rack. During the cutting process, I nearly cried and almost changed my mind about the whole LS1 thing, but since I was that far, I might as well go thru with it. Once it was in place, I mounted and welded tabs to hold the rack in place. From there, I custom made a steering shaft. Then I had to make a gully in the subframe for the steering shaft to go. once that was cut out, I used some heavy gauge angle iron and some flat plate to weld into place to keep the frame structurally sound. After that, I had to make the inner tie rods shorter because they were too long. I didn't want to weld on any of the steering shafts, so I cut them down to the correct length on a lathe and put some reverse threads on it. Then built a tie rod connector (the one that connects the inner to the outer) out of some 3130 chromoly steel rod, threaded it, then cut a slot in it so I could use the factory clamps on it. For the outer tie rod, I used a factory 69 Camaro tie rod. As for the steering arm, I used a set from a 67 Chevelle.

The one other thing I needed to do was modify the lower control arm on both sides. The inner tie rod hits the lower control arm when it's being turned. So, I had to notch the lower control arm. I simply laid in thick material in it's place, then laid thick flat plate completely on the underside of the control arm to keep it's structure sound. I know I really shouldent be modifying the lower control arm this way, but this is not a racer, it's just a cruiser. It won't be seeing any hard driving. I am saving that for the 75-79 Nova subframe I have. It has front steer.

Also, I had to cut off the snubber pad. Behind it was some rust as you can see in the pics.

At any rate, here are some pics I took yesterday evening.....

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2927.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2926.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2924.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2923.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2922.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2921.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2920.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2919.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2918.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Kokamo44/100_2917.jpg

Joe

Nice Job! Thanks for including the pictures of the finished product. It looks like a tight fit. I see what you mean about cutting the crossmember to fit the u-joint and steering shaft.

Nice Job! Thanks for including the pictures of the finished product. It looks like a tight fit. I see what you mean about cutting the crossmember to fit the u-joint and steering shaft.

No problem Tom. This is the first pictures I have ever seen of this mod myself......well, with this much detail anyway. Seems all the only (very limited) pictures I see are of the entire subframe from ten feet away and no detail of how it was done.

Hope this helps someone out in the future.

Joe

What spindles did you end up using? Nice job by the way!

What spindles did you end up using? Nice job by the way!

Factory height 69 Camaro spindles with steering arms from a 67 Chevelle.

THANKS!!!

Joe

Don't want to be the ahole but are you confidant that the rack mounts are strong enough??? and did you check the bump steer? because the rack looks really wide for the car? if it were me i would get rid of the factory style tie rod adjusters and get some tubular ones. i don't think i need to tell you what will happen in a turn if the adjuster hits the lower control arm!!!

Don't want to be the ahole but are you confidant that the rack mounts are strong enough??? and did you check the bump steer? because the rack looks really wide for the car? if it were me i would get rid of the factory style tie rod adjusters and get some tubular ones. i don't think i need to tell you what will happen in a turn if the adjuster hits the lower control arm!!!


He cant help it hes Canadian. Just Kidding.. :beers:


Seriously though he brings up some good points the tabs look pretty suspect and I agree on the Tie rod sleeves @ least maybe roll them up.
Again just kidding about the Canadian thing :D

Don't want to be the ahole but are you confidant that the rack mounts are strong enough??? and did you check the bump steer? because the rack looks really wide for the car? if it were me i would get rid of the factory style tie rod adjusters and get some tubular ones. i don't think i need to tell you what will happen in a turn if the adjuster hits the lower control arm!!!

No not an a hole at all. Thanks for bringing it up.

The rack mounts are very strong. I'm not saying I am a bad ass welder, but I am certified, so I have confidence that they are strong enough. The only thing I am guessing is that you can't see the lower mount. There are more tabs underneath the rack.....not just on top.

The tie rod connectors ARE NOT factory. They are custom made out of 3130 chromoly steel. I had them built by a freind of mine. As far as I know, all tie rod adjusters are tubular.:confused: I have checked all clearances and everything clears perfectly. I took the springs out and worked the suspention and had the steering in all positions....everything clears just fine.

As for bumpsteer, I am not really concerned at the moment. No, I havent checked it, but I'm sure it has some....if not alot. Again, it dosent matter at the moment. Like I said before, I'm just cruising this thing around. Not auto-X, not track use, no haulin' ass down the backroads or anything like that. Just a cruise around town and maybe a few trips to the coast.

The reason it dosent bother me much....for now....I will be putting together a front steer 75-79 Nova subframe soon. It might be next years winter project.

Joe

HaHaHaHa Yea i can understand why you would be upset about not being Canadian too. :beers:

but seriously there are SOOOOO many guys who either don't think the whole thing out ( and i'm not pointing fingers just sayin it out loud) and i see this stuff day in and day out, we build some high end cars, and we have had cars come in to have them finished after someone else has doen work and if we are going to put our name on the job then we MUST fix all the screwups, and even the questionable stuff because i gaurentee that when the guy is out with his car he won't go into the whole story about how we did this part and the other shop did that part.......... any way when you see something that maybe could be done a bit better and it looks like it could be dangerous you gotta say something, its the STEERING!!! if it was the speaker mount i wouldn't have said anything!
i applaud you on the ingunity to put the LS motor in and use the parts you have and it migth be fine and maybe you have checked it and maybe you a certified welder ................. i have no idea.......... just an observation. i hop i did not offend the builder. its the STEERING!


Give me a "U":hurray:Give me a "S":hurray:Give me a "A":hurray: yeaaaaaaaaaaa USA!

you must have been replying at the same time. no disrespect!!!
on the tubular tie rod sleeves i just ment perhaps you could use jam nuts rather than the "Factory" clamps, thats all

and your right cant' see the lower mounts so your probably ok

good to hear that you cycled the suspension most don't
are you planning on putting the 75 nova clip in the camaro?
you might want to check the track width first. the first gen is 60" i can check the second gen camaro in our shop if you want?

Blake, I echo your thoughts. A good reason for Blake and I posting on this thread, - even though this install is mostly done, is that others will read this thread and copy it. They need to know there are issues to consider.

I have concerns over the notch in the lower A arm, and bumpsteer. The A arm is under a lot of load and any notch needs to be reinforced underneath to last. In general I see a some concessions in lower control arm strength, and geometry to get that rack in there, clearance looks tight too. I'm not saying it won't work well enough for your use, but what if some guy wanted to copy this and run his Camaro on a race track or autocross?

Where do you plan to put the Anti-Roll bar?
David

you must have been replying at the same time. no disrespect!!!
on the tubular tie rod sleeves i just ment perhaps you could use jam nuts rather than the "Factory" clamps, thats all

and your right cant' see the lower mounts so your probably ok

good to hear that you cycled the suspension most don't
are you planning on putting the 75 nova clip in the camaro?
you might want to check the track width first. the first gen is 60" i can check the second gen camaro in our shop if you want?

No disrespect at all...I never felt any at all. Glad to see the concern. Now I see what you mean about the tie rod adjuster jam nut. Makes alot of sense now. Shoot, maybe I can go back to my buddies shop and have him make me a few nuts.....well, now that I think about it, the slot in the adjuster would not need to be there, so thats kinda out the window now. I'd have to remake them and leave the slot out if I were to use jam nuts. No biggie tho, it will all clear the way it is.

As for the 2nd gen Camaro subframe, the measurements are'nt real close to the 1st gen. It would work, but there would be alot of removing and fabrication of body mounts and so fourth. The late 70's Nova subframe should be exact other than a few radiator support spacers. I'm not REAL sure on this yet, but from all (alot) of my research, the Nova subframe is the one to use. Thank you for the offer of measurements. I appreciate it.



Blake, I echo your thoughts. A good reason for Blake and I posting on this thread, - even though this install is mostly done, is that others will read this thread and copy it. They need to know there are issues to consider.

I have concerns over the notch in the lower A arm, and bumpsteer. The A arm is under a lot of load and any notch needs to be reinforced underneath to last. In general I see a some concessions in lower control arm strength, and geometry to get that rack in there, clearance looks tight too. I'm not saying it won't work well enough for your use, but what if some guy wanted to copy this and run his Camaro on a race track or autocross?

Where do you plan to put the Anti-Roll bar?
David

David, I agree with everything in your post. I even bolded the most important parts. Yes, I understand how other people could do this very same thing, but not think about the saftey aspect.

For future refrence to anyone that will perform anything in this thread. YOU WILL NEED TO REINFORCE ANY AND ALL CUTS PERFORMED ON THE SUBFRAME AND CONTROL ARMS. EVEN IF YOU DO REINFORCE, I or TEAM CAMARO WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY PERSONAL DAMAGES OR INJURY.

The lower control arm was in fact reinforced on the underside of it with 1/4" plate. From the center of the spring mount all the way to the inside was coverd in plate material. Personally, I think it will be just fine, but I'm not going to be super hard on it to find out. This entire system is temporary until I can get me Nova subframe.....or aftermarket subframe ready to install.

Also, the factory swaybar will be relocated behind the spindle. In more simple terms, it will be in the same place the original steering was. It will be pretty close to the oil pan, but it will clear. The mounts will need to be made out of some rectangular tubing and welded to the frame that comes down about 6 or 8". Not real sure on how this will be done yet, but as soon as it's done, I will post pics and details.

Thanks for all the comments guys,

Joe

I guess I wouldn't a bothered b/c a 2nd Gen's S/F is front steer and I'd use a regular steering gearbox w/ the long pitman and the shortest bolt-on spindle arms made IF they are made for the 2nd. Gen. cars like everything is made for the 1st Gen. cars and be done w/ it!!

This is the only mod I will ever think about doing to my 1st Gen. car later!! Install a 2nd Gen. S/F that is!!

pdq67