My car is at the exhaust shop and when they went to jack the front end up the lower fall joint fell out of the control arm. I know this shouldn't happen by any means. They guy (who builds some of the best race cars around) said he can press it back in and maybe weld alittle inside before he presses it in to make sure it is tight.

This car isn't turning out to be as good as I thought with all these little things happening.

Any suggestions or other reasons why the ball joint would fall out, should I be lloking for anything else like spindles or anything?

Also the car has QA1 coilovers in the front stock location. The guy doing the work doesn't like the setup because all the weight of the car is riding on the lower two mounting holes in the control arm instaed of the coil spring. Any suggestions or concerns on this at all.

Thanks Erik

Was the castle nut installed, torqued, and pinned? If so, the only way it could fall out the bottom is if it separated. Make sure you know before you proceed.

I have had replacement lower ball joints fit kind of loosely so they'd fall out when you try to set the spindle on, and a couple quick tack welds took care of that. But dropping out of the assembled front end when it's lifted? Something sounds very wrong.

Can't help with the QA1 on stock LCAs question, but I had the same thought when looking at different suspension options that are out there.

I've seen this many times.... get a replacement control arm. It is caused by having the ball joint replaced many times, the hole gets stretched oversize. You can weld it but is it worth wrecking the car over a few $$ for a good used part?

Personally...I've never heard of a balljoint "falling" out of the control arm i agree that something sounds seriously wrong

Personally...I've never heard of a balljoint "falling" out of the control arm i agree that something sounds seriously wrong

i agree. the lower balljoint has a shoulder making it impossible to pull out unless it separated....

I just stopped and looked at it and the castle nut and everything was still on it. They do have the jack stands under the lower control arm and the blower ball joint was just below the control arm. You can see where it wasa tight fit but popped down from the control arm somehow. It looked intact just came out. I am no suspension expert and the guy doing the exhaust is. He said he will pull the lower control arm off and take a look at it.

Still not sure about the QA1 shocks though?

Erik

I think I would call a tow truck if I was you. LBJ can't fall out with the castle nut and everything still intact. The nut can't pull through the spindle unless the spindle split in two at the same time. I have had lower control arms break and drop down into the rim, but the ball joint was still attached to the spindle. Personally I think you're getting set-up for a hose job. :eek:

I guess some people are not understanding what I am saying about the ball joint. The ball joint is still connected to the tie rod and the castle nut is still on the ball joint. When they went to set the jackstand under the lower control arm the pressed in part of the ball joint slipped out of the control arm know its just hanging there in the hole of the control arm.

He does suspensions and race cars for a living, he said he will press it back in and see what it looks like.

Erik

Erik, Pictures are worth a thousand words. Take your digital camera or your cell phone up there and get some pictures to help explain what happened.

Is it loose in the hole or all the way down? Maybe it was never seated all the way in the first place.

I had a ball joint pressed in once. The shop cracked the flange around the hole. Maybe it is cracked and too loose.

You can bet for sure that if it came out of the lower control arm hole with just the wieght of the tire and spindle ( with the jack stand under the contol arm) that the hole the ball joint is push into is no longer a press fit and or damaged/ cracked and the best thing is to replace the lower control arm. If it is welded in it still may brake loose again and let the wheel and spindle move around at the bottom. i wouldn't worry as much it falling out when the weight is on the tire it is going to move around sideways and cause handling problums.

I guess some people are not understanding what I am saying about the ball joint. The ball joint is still connected to the tie rod and the castle nut is still on the ball joint.
Erik

the ball joint doesnt connect to the tie rod end.... the upper and lower ball joints connect to the spindle.

the spindle connects to the steering arm.the steering arm connects to the tie rod end.the tie rod end connects to the shin bone.the shine bone connects to the knee bone..etc..........

You can bet for sure that if it came out of the lower control arm hole with just the wieght of the tire and spindle ( with the jack stand under the contol arm) that the hole the ball joint is push into is no longer a press fit and or damaged/ cracked and the best thing is to replace the lower control arm. If it is welded in it still may brake loose again and let the wheel and spindle move around at the bottom. i wouldn't worry as much it falling out when the weight is on the tire it is going to move around sideways and cause handling problums.

It is contained by the spring pressure pushing against the ball joint. The control arms need to move towards each other for the ball joints to come out.

It is contained by the spring pressure pushing against the ball joint. The control arms need to move towards each other for the ball joints to come out.

Agreed, ball joint is loaded into the control arm with lots of spring pressure, both are probably wore out. When was the last time all control arm bushing were replaced? Might do that while you are at it. This was an accident waiting to happen. Think if that happened cruising 70mph on the crowded hiway.

Get rid of those 40 year old control arms and buy a nice set of aftermarket control arms. If the car was jacked up by the control arm, it is likely the ball joint popped out the bottom. Meaning the lower control arm is junk.

It is contained by the spring pressure pushing against the ball joint. The control arms need to move towards each other for the ball joints to come out.

That is when the weight of the car is on the tire and transfered into the spindle thru the lower ball joint into the lower control arm into the spring. When the car is supported with a jack stand under the lower control arm the weight of the tire and spindle assy. would be pushing down on the lower ball joint making it push out of the poorly fitting lowwer control arm. That is why it wasn't noticed untill the car was jacked up and supported under the control arm. With this contition the ball joint still would have to come apart itshelf before the spindle would come loose, but would handle like the lowwer ball joint was worn out, Still not good or safe.

Don't let the shop make a repair to what you have.Any mechanic worth his salt would know this is not a safe situation and would not send his customer down the road with a micky mouse repair..He might be trying to make a few extra bucks off you...have it towed home or to a different shop for control arm and ball joint replacement.....plus stock control arms are not designed for coilover loads as was stated earlier...

I cant really say when the ball joint was replaced, I just bought the car myself.
I am confident in the chassis builder looking at it and letting me know what will be needed. He won't send me home with the car if ne can't get it fixed for me to drive.

I guess I am in the market for a set control arms now! I wasn't prepared to replace these this soon. I am sure it is just wore out. Any ideas on some decent tubular control arms? The front end has some kind of disc brake conversion kit on it. I have to figure that out as well. I asume different spindles will make my tubular control arms different.

Thanks, Erik

Erik,
It is very common to tack weld the balljoints in. The press fit often loosens up on arms that are that old. Your front end guy will guide you on this. The QA1's should be above the A arm sitting on top of the shock mount holes, not underneath like stock shocks.

I have the same concerns about mounting coilovers this way, but it's done all the time and I've not read any member complaints of this causing any problems. Aftermarket A arms like Speed Tech, or Global West have a thicker flange in this area and are better able to carry the load.
David

Thanks guys, I was able spend some time under that car at his shop last night. He showed me how the ball joint goes up into the control arm with almost no force. He said if it was an extremely tight fit like it should be then there wouldn't be any paint in the hole were the ball joint goes. The hole had paint all over it. It looks like I am in the market for some suspension work besides just the rear. The front coil-overs are sitting ontop of the control arms so I know that is correct.

I have to say the exhuast this guy is doing is amazing. I will post pics the next timer I go over there. I need to buy band clamps for the mufflers.

Thanks, Erik

There is another fix you can do. There is a Chrysler screw in ball joint used by circle track racers, and a weld in balljoint seat that is threaded. Just weld in the seat and screw the BJ in. AFCO makes them. I can scare up part numbers if you need them. This is NOT the huge NASCAR balljoint, it's smaller like a stock Camaro size.
David

I had a right lower control arm crack and snap on the inboard side of the ball joint. There was a large pop as I was backing up with wheels turned sharp left. The front end dropped, the spring drove the lower arm into the concrete, the spindle swung out 4 or 5 inches, the wheel jammed up into the wheel well --- very scary. A local front end specialist said that maximum stress is placed on the control arms in backing up with wheels turned to the max. I've had nightmares about that happening at 80 mph! I had no choice but to find a new lower control arm and I would urge you to do the same. If that hole is beat out, it might also have cracks in it!

I haven't checked into it, but I have heard that there was an oversized joint made just for this purpose?

I haven't checked into it, but I have heard that there was an oversized joint made just for this purpose?

Current Moog ball joints are oversize (if I remember correctly about 20 thousands). I was told they did this because most a-arms have had the ball joint replaced a few times due to age of the parts. I have run into a-arms that still had the original ball joints and had to go to Rare Parts for a ball joint the fit as the Moog replacement was too large