Hello,

I wanted share my recent project and ask some wheel and tire questions. I just started replacing my stock suspension and power drum brakes for 4 wheel discs from CPP (Big Brake kit), speed tech upper/lowers and QA1 coilovers. I only finished the drivers front last weekend and plan to play again this weekend.
The Start:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040532.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040532.jpg)

Disassembled:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040567.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040567.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040565.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040565.jpg)

Drivers Front:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040572.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040572.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040570.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040570.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040569.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040569.jpg)

The rear has stock mono leaf with a 10 bolt. Plan on lowering the rear once I have the wheels and tires to see how far I need to go to make it look right. I am figuring since the front will be a 2" drop the back will most likely be as well.

Now for the question...I am thinking about going with Foose Nitrous II's, 18's in the front and 20's in the back. I went to a local shop and they recommended 18x7 in front with 225/45/18 (25.9 H x 8.7 W) Toyo proxy's and 20x8.5 in back with 255/30/20 (26.1 H x 10.1 W) Toyo proxy's. I have not measured the back spacing yet as I need to finish the brakes first...I think. It seems these recommendations are a little on the conservative side as my stock 15" tires, 235/60/15 measure 26.1 H x 9.5 W. I do not plan on mini tubbing the rear so i am not sure how wide I can go there. As far as the front goes, it seems that most here go with a 8" rim rather than 7" and a wider tire in front, like a 245/x/x.

What do you think? Recommendations? Thoughts, comments? Should I just run 20's all the way around?

This car look pretty good with 20's on all 4. I understand they ran airbags on all 4 corners to get it to sit this low.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_1cbc_4.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/1cbc_4.jpg)

Also, my car is just a street cruiser, probably never see the track, at least not in a serious manner.

Thanks,

Jerry

Not a peep, huh.....bump.

i think the '20's' comment turned alot of peeps off here. for performance, 17's are the way to go. all else is stuffing a sock in your pants so you can pretend. the unmodified rear tire size of 275/40r17 or equivalent height (26 or so inches) is about as good as you can get (with rolling or shaving the fender lip, sometimes both) . as for wheel diameter, take into account that the tire size is different that the lip to lip measurement. for instance, my 17's are 18 1/2 inches lip to lip, giving a larger appearance than it is. that's not stuffing a sock, per se, but putting yourself in comparison to that is which is small to begin with. as for your post, i say well done. love the car, love the pics, keep em coming. i'll be doing the cpp swap this summer, too. keep us posted!

Hello John,

Thanks for the response. I kind of realized that the 20's are not everyone's cup of tea, I am not completely sold on them yet either. There are some that say anything other than a 14" or 15" wheel is blasphemous on a classic car. I think the 17" rims are pretty much universally accepted....now. I just want to be a little different, push the envelope. At the very least I will run 18's just to step it up a notch above the norm.

As far as the brake and suspension upgrade I have the front completely finished with the new booster/mast cylinder and the hard lines. I have to finish the rear swap, hopefully this weekend.

You mentioned rolling the fender lip. I thought I seen a tool (Super Chevy mag??), that does this pretty easy. Do you or anyone else know what I am talking about and who makes it? I rolled the fender lips on a Chevy s-10 I had with a baseball bat, it worked but didn't look great and cracked the paint and caused chipping. I looked at the lip and it looks like I can gain a 1/4 to 1/2 inch.

Thanks,

Jerry

Funny, as I was reading through your post I was think those are very conservative sizes just before you said it. You can fit a 8" on the front with a 4 3/4" backspace, and a 9 1/2" on the rear with a 5.5" backspace, and run a 245 front tire and 275 rear tire. Just need to watch asspect ratio and overall height of those 20s.

I'd compare the weight difference of a 20" rim to a 17" rim, my understanding is every 10lbs you take off unsprung weight is worth about 100lbs equivalent on the car. If there is much difference in weight (x2 for two rims) you get the picture fast what it will do to performance. A 17 or 18" rim seems to be the way to go so you have the tire selection to run the narrow side walls and get the modern rubber anything else is really for "just looks".

But it is your car don't let anyone talk you out of something you like looks-wise, make your car look how you like.

i found that a $20 louisville slugger works best for rolling the rear fender lip. after giving it's life, it can still be used as 'garage protection'!

Fender roller available at www.eastwood.com (http://www.eastwood.com)

Looks like a job well done.

Thanks for all of the repsonses and support. That fender roller is expensive at 250 bucks, I will have to rent it out to get a ROI....

Prodigy - Thanks for clarifying that the shops suggestions were on the conservative side. When I measure the rear, from trunk to outter lip it is about 11 1/4 to 11 3/8 inches (rolling the outter lip may gain 1/4 to 1/2). I would guess that I would have to go with a 275/30/R20 to keep the height down. I have looked online but can't find the actual dimersions of this size tire. Any ideas?

if you want to use the rolling tool, search the site, someone bought one and is renting it out to cover the cost, so look for him

and second, tirerack.com will show you the dimensions of the tires they sell, its under specifications when you look at specific tires

OK,after all of the advise here and a little research this what I am thinking.

Foose Nitrous II
18x8 Front 4 3/4 backspacing
20x9.5 Rear 5.5 backspacing

Nitto Tires NT555
245/45/ZR18 26.57 H x 9.65 W
275/30/ZR20 26.61 H x 10.71 W

(I am going with the Nitto tires because I have a connection for these tires, save some dough)

Aside from the questions about 20's....What do you think, will this work? Remembering the front will be lowered 2" with Qa1's and tubular upper and lower control arms and the rear will eventually be lowered at least 2 " with leaf springs.

Thanks for you help,

Jerry

I just want to throw out my 2 cents. Do what ever you can to make them fit before you roll those quarters. You can make it look perfect without rolling them. Its just when people see that you were able to get a tire under it without bending the car up they will take a second look!
Again, just my 2 cents!

I see a HUGE rproblem, and my pet peeve in wheel and tire selection. The aspect ratio is all wrong. The front tires you choose are the same height as your rear tires (26.5 each), but your front rims are 2" smaller then your rear rims (18s in front, 20s on rear), which means you have 3.5" of tire around the rim on the rear and 4" of tire around the rim on the front. This actually will make the front tires look taller then the rear tires which look HORRIBLE! Keep in mind becasue your rear wheel will have a deeper lip then your front wheel, A equal height tire / wheel up front already trys to look taller then the rear. But this will only add to the natural problem.

I would look at a bit shorter 35 series front tire for a low ride height and proper tire stagger. Also, keep in mind any tire over 26" is getting a bit tall up front anyways.

I would look into a 235 / 35 /18 up front, 24.5" tire keeps the aspect ratio the same from front to back

Thanks Prodigy Frank. To be honest with you I didn't really understand what you meant about "aspect ratio". I should have asked. I guess I thought you would want them to be the same overall size, around 26". I will take your advise.

Well, if you start REALLY looking at cars at show's, once you home in on this fauxpaw, you will not be able to miss it ever again. I see it instantly. Part of it is a optical illusion because of rim lip, but sometimes, like you were specing out here, it is real. Long story short, it looks screwed up when the front tire has more sidewall (taller sidewalls) then the rear tires.

I know a certain magazine editor which shall remain nameless that will immediately discount a cars feature potential on wheel / tire aspect ratios as a first order of dismissal.

Besides, these car look hot with a bit of wheel size / tire size height stagger.

Prodigy Frank,

So is "aspect ratio" as big a deal if you are running the same size rim all the way around? If I was to run 18's on all 4 would I then be shooting for the same "aspect ratio" or do I still need to ensure the front has a smaller ratio?

For example:

Nitto 555's
245/45/18 26.57 H x 9.65 W (26.57 - 18 = 8.57 divide by 2) = 4.285 ratio
275/40/18 26.61 H x 10.91 W = 4.305 ratio

The back has a slightly larger ratio, but it is relatively close. Will this still create the optical allusion that you speak of?

Thanks,

Jerry

What ever you decide, it will look bad ass.

If this helps you, these are my 18s x7 in frony & 18s x9.5 in the rear.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r216/skeeter55/Image031.jpg

I think Frank is talking about the (total) height of the sidewall being larger in the front than the rear being a big no-no. Not necessarily the aspect ratio which has to be taken with the actual width of the tire to figure out the total sidewall height.

The rear has the 1.5 drop Hotchkis leafs with 9.5 rims with 5.5 back space & 285-40s. I made sure the rear end was dead on center... A 1/16 inch at this point is a big deal, although i didnt mini tub just a little triming on the quarter lip... The iner rear well will rub a little when you side hill it up a drive way...

The front has the 2" drop Hotchkis springs with 7" rims with 4" back space & 235-40s no rubbing at all.

I think Frank is talking about the (total) height of the sidewall being larger in the front than the rear being a big no-no. Not necessarily the aspect ratio which has to be taken with the actual width of the tire to figure out the total sidewall height.Yea i got yaa. Dont know what to say, hes doing an awsome job on his car already.....Wheels can make a hudge impact on the car.....

I think Frank is talking about the (total) height of the sidewall being larger in the front than the rear being a big no-no. Not necessarily the aspect ratio which has to be taken with the actual width of the tire to figure out the total sidewall height.


I think that is what I was trying to point out with my calculations.

245/45/18 26.57 H x 9.65 W (26.57 - 18 = 8.57 divide by 2) = 4.285 ratio
275/40/18 26.61 H x 10.91 W = 4.305 ratio

The sidewall in the above example would be 4.285" front and 4.305" rear. The front sidewall is slightly smaller than the rear. I took the overall height of the tire minus the rim height, then divided by 2 get the top and bottom sidewall height.

Am I looking at this correctly?


Skeeter - thanks for the kind words and I love the look of your car, thanks for the pictures. Who makes your rims? You have the best of both worlds, larger wheels will the original rally looks.

Thanks,

Jerry

Thank you, there from Wheel Vintiques.

I cant wait to see what you pick out.....Its gotta be sick on that rag top.

Pic in my sig is with 245/40/18 front and a 275/35/18 rear. Both are exactly 25.55" tall. After my second set of rear tires I'll go with a 275/40/18 rear.

Pic in my sig is with 245/40/18 front and a 275/35/18 rear. Both are exactly 25.55" tall. After my second set of rear tires I'll go with a 275/40/18 rear.Nice ride.
Ive ben looking at your car for the last 6 months and your right about the 275/40/18 after i finish burning off the rears thats the size ill drop down to, it will give me a little more room on the in rear wheel well.

The same height / same rim is OK, But on a personal level, I like tire stagger, the back beinbg slightly taller. Just to long as the front tire is not a taller sidewall

Nice ride.
Ive ben looking at your car for the last 6 months and your right about the 275/40/18 after i finish burning off the rears thats the size ill drop down to, it will give me a little more room on the in rear wheel well.
Thanks, Skip.
I love those billet ralleys. Where you from? I recognized the pic of your car next to Steve's Camaros in your other post?

So I think I finally decided on the sizes I want to go with. I am looking at 19x8 in front with 235/35/19 and 20's in the rear with 275/30/20 tires. I am waiting to hear back from my tire connection, then I am pulling the trigger on the wheels. The problem I am having now is that they don't appear to make a 20x9.5 in the Foose "Nitrous II", the Boyd "Junk Yard Dog" or the Boze "Pro-touring". They make a 20x8.5 and a 20x10. Which is the better choice? The 275/30/20 tire recommends a wheel that is between 9 and 11 inches with 9.5 being the sweet spot.

Will a 20x10 fit? Would I need to change the back spacing from 5" that Prodigy Frank recommended? Do I need to find a different style wheel that has a 9.5" wheel?

Thanks,

Jerry

I would not push it to a 10" wheel, I would drop back to a 9" wheel first. As for wheel choice, my choice would be the Boze Pro Touring of the 3 you gave, but they are all very different and the Pro Touring looks nothing like the other two. But the other 2 wheels are probably over done.

We have the Boze and Boyd available to you

I would not push it to a 10" wheel, I would drop back to a 9" wheel first. As for wheel choice, my choice would be the Boze Pro Touring of the 3 you gave, but they are all very different and the Pro Touring looks nothing like the other two. But the other 2 wheels are probably over done.

We have the Boze and Boyd available to you

Frank - Thanks for the response. It looks like dropping back to a 9" wheel may not work with these choices either, I only see a 8.5 and 10 offered. Am I missing something on the web sites that I am searching? Maybe they don't have all sizes listed. I coresponded with Boze directly and they said they do not offer a 9.5. I have asked what sizes they do offer so we will see. I can appreciate your "over done" comment above since I love the TT2 but I wanted something different so going with the foose and Boyd may accomplish the same thing as the TT2's. If you can offer the Boyd and Boze I went to your website and it said "coming soon". Send me a PM with what you can offer. Whats the shipping and tax situation with Prodigy?

Thanks,

Jerry

Another quick question. Is there a place to get the weight of wheels on the net? It doesn't seem that ost manufacturer's post that info, maybe they don't want yhou to know...

Well I am finally pretty close to finishing this project. I still have to bleed the brakes, grease the fittings and fill the differtial with gear oil. I pulled it off the jack stands to get my wifes car back in the garage. Check out the pictures, I hope this bumps this to the top of this forum. The front is really slammed, I don't think I can drive it like this but it does roll aroung the garage fine. I ended up with 3" of drop between the QA1's and the smaller diameter wheels and tires. Since I used the QA1 coilovers I will have to raise it up about 1.5". The rear is still pretty high, I need to get new leaf springs and try to lower another 1.5 to 2". From my calculations the rear was already lowered about an inch due to sagging old mono leaves. The Wheels are Intro VROD, 19's front, 20's rear.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040841.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040841.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040842.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040842.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040843.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040843.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040844.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040844.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040845.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040845.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040846.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040846.jpg)
Front 19's 235/35ZR 19 with 5" of back spacing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040847.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040847.jpg)
Rear 20's 255/35ZR 20 with 4.5" of back spacing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/th_P1040848.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/JSBOWSE/67%20Camaro%20Brake%20Project/P1040848.jpg)