I have just purchased a camaro. Want to say it is a 67 (no side lights) but not 100 percent sure. I mean all i bought was a shell. However, all the tags on the car are gone, no vin, no cowl, no nothing. Someone even cut the VIN from under the cowl vent. However... I did find what i am hoping is a partial VIN or maybe it is the VIN (i dont know) by the heater box. It reads 7N145244, and there are other random numbers on the firewall. Does anyone know how i could go about trying to solve this puzzle of a VIN? Any help would be great! Or does anyone have any suggestions on how to go about getting a new VIN? Lets just say I am lost, and i need some help!! Anything would be great.

The state can issue a new VIN if they want, but when you go to the tax assessor and talk to them, the first thing they will say is "you can't buy a car without a title" while looking sternly at you.

You've also bought a car that screams stolen since the numbers were cut off. I'm not saying it is stolen, or that you were involved if it was, but it might wind up being a parts car.

Try searching the Texas web sites for getting a new VIN issued, bonded title (although a bonded title is issued on a car with a VIN, but no title) etc.

Good luck!

Congradulations, you bought a 1967 shell.
Your original vin was either 123377N145244(6 cylinder) or, 124377N145244(8 cylinder).
I take it when you bought the car, you were only given a bill of sale? What docs were you given?
You might have purchased a stolen car. Just a small chance.

The car came from a junkyard. The owner said that he had bought the car 15 years ago and didnt have a title. He did provide me with a bill of sale on the car. To be honest I do not believe that the car was stolen, the gentlemen told me that when he got it the cops came and did take a look at it but had decided that it wasnt it. Should I take my chances and go up there with what i have and pray that it isnt stolen or what? I do have a 68 camaro with vin and title that is more a parts car. I know that it is illegal but????

I'd title it as is.
Worst case (which sounds unlikely) is the car is stolen and you lose it.
Someone could also have titled the original VIN. Which could be a problem for them, not you.
They'll probably issue a state VIN.

Don't use the 68 VIN.

1

OK... So i called the DMV and using the 124377N145244 VIN code there is a Registered 67 Camaro. She said that it is NOT stolen. But that it is registered and what I needed to do was to come fill out a Vehichle Inquiry information so they could tell me what I want to know. What happends to that ol' boy who is using this VIN?

Congradulations, you bought a 1967 shell.
Your original vin was either 123377N145244(6 cylinder) or, 124377N145244(8 cylinder)...

Buck, is yours a coupe or convertible, 12337 or 12437 are coupes, a convertible would start with 12367 or 12467, if it is a coupe than your missing vin tag and cowl panel partial vin are on that other car and that other car is more than likely stolen.
And that ol' boy using your vin could potentially lose his car.

It is a coupe, manual trans, and i called the Tax place and they said that it isnt a reported stolen car. But that it is registered to someone. So, i dont know whether to say that is good news or not.... I would feel bad if someone loses a car though. Unless he had stolen the car or was the one to take the tags off. They are going to give me the information on that persons car, and i dont know if i should call the ol' boy and just say look... you got my VIN and Tags and I want them, or just let the police deal with it?

Adding that your car has sat in a junkyard for 15 years pretty much rules out the possibility that its your car coming up in the dmv database,sounds like your car was used as the donor for a vin swap and then junked, whoever did it left a loose thread by not cutting out the 2nd hidden vin.
So you can contact the guy and get a feel for him, see if you think it was him who did the vin swap or is the victim of a crime. The rest is pretty much in your hands from there. Either way sounds like a can of worms for "the ol' boy". Hate to be in his or her shoes right now.

Nick,
There are two possible vin combinations for partial vin 7N145244, as mentioned previosly. Did you have DMV run both vin combo's? Your shell could have the other vin that isn't registered.

Wow, you are in a catch 22 situation. Here you bought a car shell hoping to restore I presume. The bad thing is the vin is on another car. More then likely this happened many years ago and the person who did the swapping is not the owner anymore. This Junkyard tag swap was a big item in the early 80's before it got pounced upon by the Fed's. The owner of the registered car is probably oblivious about his vin and car history. Talk about your world coming to a screeching halt.
Not to be heartless or anything, I would not of bought the car you bought unless it was to salvage a piece for patching or repairing another car. State issued vin may be the way to go, but then again ?

Nick,
There are two possible vin combinations for partial vin 7N145244, as mentioned previosly. Did you have DMV run both vin combo's? Your shell could have the other vin that isn't registered.

But the 145244 production number only went on one Norwood car, period. So, if it comes up under a 6 cyl or V8, it's that car.

Nick,
There are two possible vin combinations for partial vin 7N145244, as mentioned previosly. Did you have DMV run both vin combo's? Your shell could have the other vin that isn't registered.

I would disagree with that, they only built one "7N145244" whether it was a coupe/conv, L6 or V8 the only other camaro with that vin would be "7L145244", which is not the car in question.

i did have them run both VIN's. But... the last digits if i am correct are individual to each car. No car would have the same last digits because if i am not mistaken that is the order that they came off of the production line. Am I wrong about that??? And I would hate for that one person to lose his/her car if they arent the one that did it and are oblivious to the whole thing.

Your right!!

What hasn't been mentioned is that the tags for your car is on another car. Why? It maybe has issues, like being stolen. Swapping tags is a crime and they are on the wrong car......

As far as i know, with the information that i have found is that the car I bought was not stolen. It had been hit in the rear. The car that I have never was reported stolen. I checked with DMV and they confirmed that the car had never been reported stolen. So, it is possible that the car that has the tags to the car that i just purchased could be a stolen car using my tags to mask the fact it is stolen. I talked to TxDOT and they said that what I would have to do is get a new VIN number for the car. What i would have to do is put a front sub frame on it and a engine and take it to them, and they would look at the car and then determin what steps need to be taken from there as far as getting me a new VIN or getting my old one.

they only built one "7N145244" whether it was a coupe/conv, L6 or V8 the only other camaro with that vin would be "7L145244", which is not the car in question.

Now that I've sobered up, I agree.:D Only one car with partial vin 7N145244.

May be a very good example of what irritates many of us when we see tags and paperwork for sale ( not to mention illegal in most cases ). So the guy with the registered car may be the one who loses out here whether he knows about it or he is unsuspecting. Another possible victim may be the person who owned the car that is now registered with that vin assuming that it was stolen. It may have been an old race car or something that had no title but that's assuming another scenario. So possibly three parties invoved, two cars and one vin. Who wins this one?

I will... I have waited to long to get a camaro, and i'll be danged if something this gay is going to get in my way. I went to the DMV and got the owners Name and Address... what do you know, that particular car with the my VIN is about 20 miles down the road. What are the odds? If i call this guy what should i say? Hey i want my VIN's?!

So what if the guy down the road use to own both ? He may rebuilt an old Drag Car with a better body and switched the vins. ( Which should not be done for legal and moral reasons ) And had the local Salvage yard haul off the other Body. The Salvage yard should have never sold you the body in whole without a title or salvage title. Roof , Quarters, Floor and ect Yes but not the whole thing. So many possibilities..... I do feel Bad for you .

Yup, I don't think I was clear, but I was saying the *other*, yet unseen, car might have been stolen.
That person could be in trouble, or this could go nowhere and they just issue you a new state VIN and ignore the other car. I suppose it depends on how much you press the issue of getting the tags back.

well let me ask yall a question... how important would it be to get those origninal tags? Should i be willing to settle for a new vin? or really press on getting those old ones? From what i can tell is that it was a manual, v8, and it was hugger orange. Other than that i dont have a clue... Should i press on getting the old ones?

How good is the car? Most that have been sitting in a junkyard for 15 years aren't all that great.

How important is having the original VIN vs. a state-issue VIN to you?

Lets put it this way I had bought a 1968 Camaro for 1500.00. I bought the junkyard find for 300.00 and all i need is to replace a partial floorpan, middle of trunk, and one rear quarter. So all in all about $700 worth of sheetmetal vs. the $3000 worth of sheetmetal for the 68. the body is in real good shape. I dont know, thats what i want to know... how important is it?

Some people really shy away from a car with a state issued VIN, while to some it's not a big deal. It's more of an issue if you're looking to go back stock. If not, shouldn't be much of an issue IMO.

With custom/mod cars, people are usually not too concerned with the #s as long as everything is legally clear. There is some sort of issue in the fact that they have been removed and are now on another car. Whether you choose to pursue that is up to you. Could be simple, but could very well get ugly and a legal issue you may not want any part of.

yea i could see that... I have the guys number that is using the VIN numbers and i was giong to give him a call and just have a talk with him and see what he thinks i should do. I am willing to bet that he is going to be a little upset, but willing to work with me considering that it is a felony. Who knows maybe he will give them back?! LOL

Why would he give your vin back? Without a title proving its "yours" then how are you planning on getting them back?

Even though a deal may seem like a good deal doesnt mean its a "good" deal if you know what I mean.

This is a gray area at best. Since you bought the car you have with no vins out of a junkyard and it sounds like it's just a hull??? I would think that you would have a hard time getting the original vin back since they weren't on the "hull" when you bought it. Just go to the dmv and get a state vin and ride. just my 02

Why would he give your vin back? Without a title proving its "yours" then how are you planning on getting them back?
The issue for the other owner is that the tags don't belong on his car and if the state comes to take them back, then he might lose the car.
All depends on how much you want to push and how far the state wants to take it.

If you're going to modify the car, I'd go for the state-issued VIN. Kinda hard to go original since you don't know what it was.

There wasn't a standard orange color available in 67, btw.

I agree about just get a state issued vin. But I would still talk to the guy and find out where and when he came into possesion of the tags or the car. The car he is driving maybe someone elses "missing" car. If the car that tags are on had the cowl section cut out to weld in the hidden vin from the shell you bought there is a good chance it can never be identified. It would be more of a curiousity thing at this point to me.

well that is just the color that is on the car now. It could have possibly been white... well thats the color under the cowl vent area. But once again I dont know. I will probably still give that ol boy a call and see what his story is and what he thinks i should do. I do know that the title has been registered to him since 1980 with the previous owner as "unkown" my bet, is he is the one that did it. He probably ran across the car got what he wanted off it and got ride of it, then filled for lost title in 1980.

ok for those of you who want an update. I called and talked to another person at TXDot. After explaining what I think has happened based on what i have found out she said that it is very possible. She ran the VIN for my car (the one without tags) and said that it was never reported stolen. SO my car is not stolen, so i am not going to lose it! Thats the good news. She then told me that what is going to happen is that someone is going to come and inspect my shell, and verify the hidden VIN number off of my firewall. Then i am going to have to fill out some paper work, and what they are going to do is give me back my original VIN numbers with a title. Then they are going revoke his registration on his car, and take away his title and VIN tags. So, thats where I stand as of now. I appreciate everyones help in this, I can honestly say that this has made the adventure much easier.

Then they are going revoke his registration on his car, and take away his title and VIN tags. So, thats where I stand as of now. I appreciate everyones help in this, I can honestly say that this has made the adventure much easier.

Easy for you but what if the guy that is about to lose his vin number and title is 100% percent innocent?Would really suck to have owned a car for 28 years and have it made worthless because someone wants to bring a junkyard shell back from the dead.JMO.In most states it is illegal for a junkyard to sell a body.

no the car has been titled to this gentleman since 1980. And where it says previous owner it is "unknown". So that means that this ol boy was the one who filled for the lost title with the stolen VIN numbers. If he had bought the car afterwards, then were it says previous owner is would have someones name... Like joe blow or whatever, not "unknown"

I just hope you really want this body.Maybe it goes as easy as the TxDOt says.I see lawyers and legal battles in the future.Unless the other car is junk.I just cant see a thief keeping a car from 1980 until 2008.Just remember in America its innocent until proven guilty.

Dont know about Texas but in Ga.if the DOT gave out someones name and address to a non law inforcement individual that produced a partial vin number their would be a lawsuit for invasion of privacy.I cant believe you got his info so easily.

here in texas you could get someones information just by filling out a vehichle inquiry form and paying $2.00 at your local goverment tax office. I thought that you could do that in any state.. Besides the point this guy whomever did it, commited a FELONY. VIN swaping is highly illegal, and this guy just got caught

Maybe but you are being judge jury and executioner without all the facts.Did he infact own both bodies in question?Wrecked his car bought a body and swaped his own car over.Just beacause someone at the DOT says the previous owner is unknown doesnt mean the current owner did anything wrong.If you live in Texas you better cover your vin number if your car is out because with your number and $2.00 it looks like anybody can find out who you are and where you live.With all of the privacy laws in effect now looks like the DOT better fix this before someones car gets stolen and they get sued.


Yes vin swapping is a felony but if the person legally owned both cars I could see someone doing it.

I don't know how many of you actually owned and built Camaro's in the 80's. But "Parts " cars were a very cheap and affordable as there were no resources to Get a Title or Registration . It was near impossible, even filing for a mechanics lean out of your own shop was a paperwork nightmare. There was no Computer Data bases that could search back previous owners and such. Filing for lost paperwork now day's is a breeze. then you have places that you pay to obtain a title for you in another state under their name , then it gets transfered to yours. Many people bought parts cars with lost titles and used them to rebuild their own. Often swapping the vins and trim tags - Was it wrong yes But there were No after market parts to build a rusting hulk or rear ended car from. Classic Industries Catalog then named Classic Camaro out of Huntington Beach was printed on newsprint and only 20 pages. Many cars out there today have wrong vins due to this.
I would not have pursued this, but then again I would not have bought a Junkyard Shell with the intent of rebuilding it with the original vin ,if all the tags were missing. I think your expectations for your $300.00 investment were pretty high.

So that means that this ol boy was the one who filled for the lost title with the stolen VIN numbers.

If he owned the car at the time , the numbers werent stolen they belonged to him.

they may be true, but it is still illegal.

I say let it go and fix the 68 you have a title for.I doubt you will ever get the actual VIN plate and trim tag that was removed from your car.If the state gives you a state tag with the original vin stamped on it it will be no better than a state issued vin.

my guess is the other car was stolen and that is why it is using your cars vin

a close check of the "other" car (the VIN under the heater core), will reveal it does not match

they may be true, but it is still illegal.
It is not illegal to remove and replace the VIN for repair or restoration purposes.
If he used another car for parts, as was common before all the reproduction stuff was available, it may have legal.
Now if HIS hidden VIN is even present and shows up as a stolen car, that's a different story. Otherwise you just have some $300 scrap metal with a partial VIN.
Imagine the havoc it would create if you could get title based on having a component with a partial VIN...

Its hard for me to see someone stealing a car changing vin plates and keeping it for 28 years.The other car may not even have your plates and tags on it.Owner had 2 cars scrapped one kept the other has it titled wrong.Somebody else took the tags off the car in the junkyard.Alot of people have done this to keep crooks from getting them.

I went thru this a year ago with a Texas 67. It had been assembled from at least 2 different cars. The original trim and Vin tags had been replaced from a donar as well as the stamped VIN under the cowl having been cut out and the donar welded in. The VIN under the blower had been cut thru with a grinder. TX issued a clear title and claimed there was nothing wrong with having used a donar to repair another car. This seems to have been a prevalent practice down there some years back and it has caused numerous problems for buyers down the road. I resold this particular car as a "rebody" and lost some serious coin in the process, but I didn't want anything to do with it anymore. This may be exactly what happened to the shell you have and I agree wholeheartedly that the junkyard was wrong to sell this shell complete if they lead you to believe it could be retitled with it's original VIN. If you bought it from them on the premise of cutting it up for parts for your 68, that's what should have happened. It kind of sounds like you changed your mind and decided to persue getting the 67 reVINed and titled.
You are being too quick to assume that the "ol boy" did something wrong. Maybe you should've called him first to hear his story of how he made 1 good car out of 2 and junked the shell you now have. If this is the case, I bet he'd be pretty surprised and upset to know the junkyard had released it.

This is nothing new. People have spent $$$ to restore a car and then find out it's stolen and then lose the $. Remember Doug's situation? Wrong tags on the wrong car is about equivalent to stolen in the eyes of the law.

If you are going this route, I would ask TX for the original tags back.

UPDATE... I finally got in touch with the guy. Here is his story, he did own that car until he got rearended. Since he was the third owner of the car he took of the tags and put them on another car for resale value purposes. You know the less owners it has the more he can get. He does have a seperate set of VIN's that came off the car that he has put my VINs on. He rebuilt that car because it was in better shape than the one (mine) he got rearended in. He has a title in hand and the VIN's to that "other car" in an envelope and has offered for me to take them instead. What I want to know is what is so special about the VIN's that go to my car. I understand the resale value part, but crap its not going to help you that much. So what did that car come with? was it a SS or what? SO once again guys i have a dilema. WHAT SHOULD I DO?! take the other tags?

So the shell that you bought was rear ended I take it. The guy illegally switched tags for the purpose of a better resale on another camaro. And now he wants you to accept tags for another vehicle and have you illegally attach the wrong tags on your car?
I would insist on the original tags to be returned to you. I would also be very curious as to what the difference is between the two tags and would ask him to provide you with the TT info for each vehicle.

On the other hand, you bought somebody's scrap body who was most likely just disposing it, and without a title. I don't know that I can honestly say you should be able to demand this man's title for his junk body that he thought he was throwing out years ago.
It's an interesting situation and I don't know that there is a clear cut answer here.

Could be that the other vin is a 6 cylinder, or something is a bit more valuable concerning the trim tags information. The only way to answer that is take a look at both just to verify what his reason was. What are your plans for the shell you have? A car that was rear ended, junked and sat at a junkyard for over 20 years would be a challenge. Can you post any pics of it, after following this story I bet a lot of people would like to see it. Some people here may be able to give you some insight on what it was originally with some good pics of firewall.

yeah, i will take some pics of it and post as soon as i can. I will actually takes pic of both of the cars. I was just going to use the 67 shell as a parts car, but believe it or not it is in much much better condition than the 68 that i was going to rebuild. So now i will probably use the 68 as a parts car for the 67. You would think that after being hit in the rear and sitting for almost 20 years the car would be worthless. But honestly it is in really good shape, like i said all i have to replace sheetmetal wise is driver side quarter, rear valance, and a partial floor pan. But i will get the pictures up as soon as i can

This is very interesting. He knowingly switched tags on 2 cars for capitol gain. If it was done before the law prohibited it, it wasn't an illegal activity at that time. If you take the wrong tags and attach them to the shell you have, now both cars exit again but with incorrect registration. The "simple" answer would be to get the right tags back on the correct cars but............what if the one you have was a high optioned car and he has all those number matching parts on his other car ?? Where does it end ?? Do you then demand the return of all the correct parts he took off a "junked" shell so you can rebuild it ?? I doubt you could legally demand them since he was the sole owner and didn't do this to hide a stolen car or parts. It goes back to what you intend to do with your shell. There's no way you are ever going to return it to original staus without the original parts.
The state of TX may step in here and require him to surrender the tags and title back to you to prevent you from putting incorrect tags on your car and have him replace the tags/title "in the envelope" back on his car. If you really intend to bring this shell back to life and aren't concerned about originalty, swapping the tags back to the correct cars is the RIGHT thing to do.
It also could be that the "other" guy, is very busy looking into a court order against the junkyard for selling a shell that he junked, still holds a title to and presumed crushed years ago and require them to refund your money, have it brought to a crusher and watch it destroyed for good. Now that he knows his swap deal is exposed, you may not be the only "player" in this game.
It's very complicated, ethicaly and legally. I still feel the shell should've been cut up for parts only since you bought it knowing it didn't have the VINs or title. I'm not defending what he did as right and I'm quite certain the VIN is now safely entered into CRG's base for any future misrepresentation of that car by a seller.

Good Luck with your decision.......:confused:

UPDATE... He has a title in hand and the VIN's to that "other car" in an envelope and has offered for me to take them instead. What I want to know is what is so special about the VIN's that go to my car. I understand the resale value part, but crap its not going to help you that much. So what did that car come with? was it a SS or what? SO once again guys i have a dilema. WHAT SHOULD I DO?! take the other tags?

Well if you take the other vin and tags and put them on your body you have committed a felony.The only 2 options I see are get the tags that are original to your body or fix the 68 like you started to do. JMO but I say let it go and fix the 68.You may end up without your 67 and he may lose his also if the right or wrong officials which ever way you see it get involved.You said the guy lives 20 miles from you if he gets his car taken away I would not want him to know where I live.With the way people are these days you never know what someone would do.Is a $300.00 junkyard body worth your life.Not saying this guy would do anything that drastic but you never know.

Something that hasnt been said unless its a 67 Z28 or a 375hp 396 car you will have way more in it than you could ever sell it for.To get a body to a complete rolling chasis will cost more than you can buy a complete car for.

Before owning a Camaro became the "Investment Status Symbol" by many they were just a transportation vehicle that looked good to many in the 1970's and 1980's. Working in the body business at this time cars would be Totaled by Insurance Companies for just having subframe damage. I personally witnessed many 1st Gen Camaro's and other "muscle cars" that had been rolled, burnt, and even one a carport collapsed on get rebuilt with donor bodies from the salvage yard. One guy had his SS Chevelle cut in half and the rear section grafted on. This was not a felony to do. You were using available parts that could be had.
I have a good collection of Before and after pics of many of these cars. Sorry guys, there is even one 67 Z28 in this world with a plain jane 6 cyl body out there that I know of. But who cares ? This car could have been used for a swimming pool the way the roof was crushed. Resto parts were not available, If all of these wrecks had been crushed due to not using donor bodies quite a few of us would not have that car today.
This guy bought a junk body for sheet metal purposes, now he wants to save his self some dollars . So lets ruin someone else's life with a project done many years ago because he has his throw away trash. I don't feel Buck is entitled to anything except the usage of the sheet-metal he bought. Every car rolled off the line with the same body. Without the Drive train, interior and other options which is not on the body anymore, pursuing the original vin and tags is a waste of time. If he does not have these items what is the point ? To put this in perspective, Say Joe has a 69 Z and down the road Bill has a 68 with the number matching Joes 69 DZ Block. Is Joe entitled to Bills engine for nothing because he has the rest of the matching numbers car ?

hold on.... I am not asking for this guys to hand me over the VIN's. As far as i am concerned yeah what he did was crappy but.. you know who cares. Would it be nice to have the original VIN's? Sure... Am i going to slit this guys neck? NO He did what did and thats that. ALL i want is a way to get a set of VIN's so when i do rebuild this "junkyard car" I can have a title. Am i going to turn this guy in... Well NO, am I asking for all the parts that belong to this other body... again NO. Its some people like you that are looking way to deep into this... Come back for just a second to reality... ALL I WANT ARE SOME VIN's... IF I wanted those VIN's that belong to the car I bought Legally I could get them. Once again that is not what i am asking for, we talked and we are still talking on what is the best way out of this mess so that both of us get what we want. I just wanted someones opinion on whether or not i should take the VIN's that he has to the car that my VIN's are on... So what it would boil down to is my car has his VIN, and his car has my VIN.

If someone is willing to pay the difference for the sheetmetal between the 67 thats gonna cost $700, or the 68 which is going to cost $2600 then i'll do the 68. But its easy to say "well i dont see why you dont just do the 68 that you started with from the beginning" Cause that is bull, you know that you would do anything to save yourself some money

So what it would boil down to is my car has his VIN, and his car has my VIN.

Maybe we are looking way to deep into this but go back and read the thread.You said it is a felony to swap vins , you also said all you have to do is put a subframe and engine in the car and DOT will issue you a vin.My point is if you keep on with this and the right official gets involved both of you may lose your cars.The right and legal thing to do is put the correct vins back on the correct cars.

I will... I have waited to long to get a camaro, and i'll be danged if something this gay is going to get in my way. I went to the DMV and got the owners Name and Address... what do you know, that particular car with the my VIN is about 20 miles down the road. What are the odds? If i call this guy what should i say? Hey i want my VIN's?!

The attitude expressed in this post says to me I WANT MY VIN plate and trim tag no matter what.

If someone is willing to pay the difference for the sheetmetal between the 67 thats gonna cost $700, or the 68 which is going to cost $2600 then i'll do the 68. But its easy to say "well i dont see why you dont just do the 68 that you started with from the beginning" Cause that is bull, you know that you would do anything to save yourself some money

If this 67 shell is so nice, why don't you cut it up and use that to restore the 68, instead of spending $2600. That is what you intended to do with this scrap shell to begin with, right? That would be the easiest solution.

This guy owned two camaros, wrecked one, stripped the wrecked car, swapped the vin and useable parts to the good car, then scrapped the rest. He's owned the car since. No harm done. I don't see what the problem is. Neither car was stolen.

To try to force this guy to give you his tags is wrong. Mostly because you didn't buy them, nor did you pay for them. You bought and paid for a shell without a vin or title. If the shell had a vin and title, you would have paid more. It seems to me it is you who is trying to get something for nothing, not the other guy.

what a can of Worms.!!

Well Buck, it is my opinion that you didn't LEGALLY buy a restorable car. You knowingly bought a shell with no tags or title for parts. I did some calling on your behalf this afternoon and the other guy has the legal right, as the registered owner, to come to your house and remove the hidden VIN from his property that he didn't know about at the time he SCRAPPED the shell. He did everything correct in the eyes of the law by removing and retaining for evidence all the tags and kept the title to prove he owned both of these cars and combined them into 1. The shell you now have was TOTALED AND SCRAPPED correctly, but unfortunately for him, he didn't know about the other hidden VIN. If he had removed and kept that too, you wouldn't have any clue as to the origin of the car to persue getting a title back.
The ONLY morally and legally correct way to bring this hulk back to life is by removing the remaining VIN and giving it to the "other" guy and applying for a new state issued VIN for your "salvaged total".
Sorry if you disagree, but you are the one who went back on your word to the junkyard about parting the shell out and if he has the presence of mind to call an attorney, he may well tell you the same thing. That hidden VIN belongs to him.
Suck it up, go back to your original plan, or apply for a new VIN.

Well Buck, it is my opinion that you didn't LEGALLY buy a restorable car. You knowingly bought a shell with no tags or title for parts. I did some calling on your behalf this afternoon and the other guy has the legal right, as the registered owner, to come to your house and remove the hidden VIN from his property that he didn't know about at the time he SCRAPPED the shell. He did everything correct in the eyes of the law by removing and retaining for evidence all the tags and kept the title to prove he owned both of these cars and combined them into 1. The shell you now have was TOTALED AND SCRAPPED correctly, but unfortunately for him, he didn't know about the other hidden VIN. If he had removed and kept that too, you wouldn't have any clue as to the origin of the car to persue getting a title back.
The ONLY morally and legally correct way to bring this hulk back to life is by removing the remaining VIN and giving it to the "other" guy and applying for a new state issued VIN for your "salvaged total".
Sorry if you disagree, but you are the one who went back on your word to the junkyard about parting the shell out and if he has the presence of mind to call an attorney, he may well tell you the same thing. That hidden VIN belongs to him.
Suck it up, go back to your original plan, or apply for a new VIN.

My thoughts exactly. have you thought about the fact that Since the other fellow has the title to your car he could take your car from you.

Well Buck, it is my opinion that you didn't LEGALLY buy a restorable car. You knowingly bought a shell with no tags or title for parts. I did some calling on your behalf this afternoon and the other guy has the legal right, as the registered owner, to come to your house and remove the hidden VIN from his property that he didn't know about at the time he SCRAPPED the shell. He did everything correct in the eyes of the law by removing and retaining for evidence all the tags and kept the title to prove he owned both of these cars and combined them into 1. The shell you now have was TOTALED AND SCRAPPED correctly, but unfortunately for him, he didn't know about the other hidden VIN. If he had removed and kept that too, you wouldn't have any clue as to the origin of the car to persue getting a title back.
The ONLY morally and legally correct way to bring this hulk back to life is by removing the remaining VIN and giving it to the "other" guy and applying for a new state issued VIN for your "salvaged total".
Sorry if you disagree, but you are the one who went back on your word to the junkyard about parting the shell out and if he has the presence of mind to call an attorney, he may well tell you the same thing. That hidden VIN belongs to him.
Suck it up, go back to your original plan, or apply for a new VIN.

Very Well Done ... you made phone calls and got some answers on his behalf. :hurray:

Now the correct thing to do now is to stick to your first plan and use that 67 shell to fix up the 68.

and one more thing .........Can We Please SEE this 300 dollar dream Camaro that we speak of?

Rob.

Something that hasnt been said unless its a 67 Z28 or a 375hp 396 car you will have way more in it than you could ever sell it for.To get a body to a complete rolling chasis will cost more than you can buy a complete car for.

For my restoration ive been trying to maintain a budget. But thats hard to do Im finding out. Im over 20k not including the cost of the car and it came with many of the major parts. I dont see how anyone can restore a car from a shell without spending more than 20k. Unless they already have a bunch of parts laying around. I bought a 69 RS last year for 14k. It needed work but not that much and it was a running driving complete car. Sold that for my current project eek.

LEGALLY i did some calling on my own behalf... Two family friends who are attorneys and two friends who work for the Texas DMV. Like I said earlier, I DONT WANT HIS VIN's. I WANT MY OWN. Nobody seems to understand that. I am not trying to take away what he has done, just want my own. ANYWAYS, Legally what he did is a Felony, whether he owned both cars at the same time or not, it is a felony charge punishable for a min. of 5 years in a felony prison. He has no "upper hand". Legally IF I WANTED, which i dont, I could get those VIN tags and title. AND legally in the State of Texas you cant take a car to a salvage yard without the VIN and Title handed over. So once again, another Illegal act. So this guy has no upper hand. BUT ONCE AGAIN!!! I do not want his VINs, and to use it as a parts car is almost impossible. The 68 I have is needs all new sheetmetal, so i would be cutting up the 67 just to weld it back together again. That doesnt make much sense to me. And it is going to be this weekend before i can get out there to take some pictures.

legally in the State of Texas you cant take a car to a salvage yard without the VIN and Title handed over.

So its the Salvage yards fault aswell . :sad:

about the 5 yr in prison thing .......Do you actually think they would let some stay in prison for such a crime that Long. I know Drunks who are on their 4th DUI and they get off with a slap on the hand.:mad:

So its the Salvage yards fault aswell . :sad:

about the 5 yr in prison thing .......Do you actually think they would let some stay in prison for such a crime that Long. I know Drunks who are on their 4th DUI and they get off with a slap on the hand.:mad:

I know 2 drunks that killed people and both got 30 days work relese

LEGALLY i did some calling on my own behalf... Two family friends who are attorneys and two friends who work for the Texas DMV. Like I said earlier, I DONT WANT HIS VIN's. I WANT MY OWN. Nobody seems to understand that. I am not trying to take away what he has done, just want my own. ANYWAYS, Legally what he did is a Felony, whether he owned both cars at the same time or not, it is a felony charge punishable for a min. of 5 years in a felony prison. He has no "upper hand". Legally IF I WANTED, which i dont, I could get those VIN tags and title. AND legally in the State of Texas you cant take a car to a salvage yard without the VIN and Title handed over. So once again, another Illegal act. So this guy has no upper hand. BUT ONCE AGAIN!!! I do not want his VINs, and to use it as a parts car is almost impossible. The 68 I have is needs all new sheetmetal, so i would be cutting up the 67 just to weld it back together again. That doesnt make much sense to me. And it is going to be this weekend before i can get out there to take some pictures.

nobody understands it because you speketh with 2 tounge's

LEGALLY AND legally in the State of Texas you cant take a car to a salvage yard without the VIN and Title handed over.

Because the salvage yard is suppose to send the title to the state to be destroyed and the car is not to be used again.The salvage yard screwed up they should not have sold the car to you.I dont think it would be as easy as you think to get the Vin and trim tag back.I see lawyers and court time and that my friend = MONEY.

My family attorney took into account the time line here. It is entirely possible that all this was done before the implementation of the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act of 1984 and the subsequent tightening of the laws and further restrictions on VIN tampering passed in 1992 and 1996. There are also numerous subsections that allow the owners to do what he did as long it is not to hide a stolen vehicle or parts. He cannot be held to the laws in effect now. Any question of wrong doing needs to be done from the perspective of WHEN the tags were switched and for what purpose. In other words, his actions could be "Grandfathered" from a time before this was illegal. There is even a subsection directed to the "recycling" of vehicles that would possibly exonerate your claim that it was illegal for him to take it to the junkyard or for them to receive it. It was on this basis that my contact came to the conclusion I previously posted.

If, as you say, you don't want the original tags and title and it would be illegal for you to attach the tags and title from his other car in today's law, you only have the course I previously stated. Assemble it to the point that TX requires for the description of a motor vehicle and apply for a new state issued VIN and title.
If you decide to persue the original tags and title, unless you could PROVE he did this as a malicious act to hide stolen goods, or was done AFTER the law was enacted, you could stand to spend a very large amount of money in court and most likely still lose.
I'm not condoning what he did as right, but you need to be very careful about the time line and procede accordingly.
Here is the basic overview of the law. Further research into 18 U S C sec 511 and 511(a) will reveil the subsections for restoration by owners and their agents.

1359 Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Statutes -- General Overview


Beginning with enactment of the Motor Vehicle Theft Law Enforcement Act, Pub.L. No. 98-547, 98 Stat. 2754 (1984) (1984 Act), Congress began to respond to the growing professionalism of motor vehicle theft during the prior two decades. The primary thrust of this legislation is directed at professional "chop shops" which cause the theft of motor vehicles in order to obtain replacement parts for other vehicles damaged in accidents. As these "crash" parts (i.e., fenders, doors, hoods, etc.) were not required to be marked with identification numbers, they were nearly impossible to identify as stolen once separated from the stolen vehicle.
The 1984 Act gave the Secretary of Transportation authority to prescribe by regulation a "vehicle theft prevention standard" which would require that manufacturers and importers of new passenger car models that are frequent theft targets ("high theft lines") mark the major components of such vehicles with an identification number in order to help prevent their theft for "chop shop" operations. The Secretary of Transportation was also authorized to issue a voluntary component identification standard for "low theft" passenger car lines and all other "road" motor vehicles (i.e., trucks, vans, motorcycles, etc.). The Secretary of Transportation was not given any authority over "off-highway" mobile equipment (i.e., bulldozers, farm tractors, etc.) by the 1984 Act.
The Anti Car Theft Act of 1992, Pub.L. No. 102-519, 106 Stat. 3397 (1992) (1992 Act) expanded the Secretary's motor vehicle parts marking authority. The 1992 Act required that within two years of the date of enactment (October 25, 1992), the Secretary shall promulgate a vehicle theft standard pertaining to the covered major parts which are installed by all foreign and domestic manufacturers into passenger motor vehicles (other than light duty trucks) in not to exceed one-half of the lines not designated as high theft lines. As a result of the revision of Title 49 United States Code, Pub.L. 103-272, (1994) the theft prevention (parts marking) provisions are now codified Chapter 331 of Title 49. The implementing regulations are set forth in 49 C.F.R. Part 541.
The 1984 Act also amended Title 18 to provide for criminal penalties for altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers (18 U.S.C. § 511); seizure and forfeiture of vehicles or components with falsified or removed identification numbers (18 U.S.C. § 512); trafficking in road motor vehicles or their components which have removed or falsified identification numbers (18 U.S.C. § 2321); importing or exporting any of a wide variety of motor vehicles, vessels, or aircraft that have been stolen or that have had their identification numbers falsified or removed (18 U.S.C. § 553). In addition, the 1984 Act authorizes the Customs Service to establish a regulation requiring that the exporter of a used motor vehicle, or used off-highway mobile equipment, submit to the Customs Service before exportation a document evidencing his ownership and containing the identification number of the vehicle or equipment (19 U.S.C. § 1627a).
The 1992 Act created a new offense which makes it a federal crime to own, operate, maintain, or control a "chop shop." (18 U.S.C. § 2322). Finally, the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act (42 U.S.C. § 14171) which was enacted as Title XXII of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, requires the Attorney General to develop, in cooperation with the States, a national voluntary motor vehicle theft prevention program wherein a motor vehicle owner may sign a consent form authorizing law enforcement officers to stop his motor vehicle if it is being operated under specified conditions. Participating motorists must display a program decal on their vehicles. An unauthorized application of a program decal on a vehicle is punishable by a fine not to exceed $1000 (18 U.S.C. § 511(a)).

If you just want a set of tags to affix so you can title it, and you have a 68 that you are going to use for parts, why not just use the tags from the 68 you already own? Any tags other than the correct ones would still require hidden vin changes and you already have the resources at hand to do that. You do a better job than he did at disposing of your hull and no one would be the wiser, well except us since we have all read this. My point being you could have already handled this this way if this was all you wanted. You didn't buy a car. Leave the guy alone and go for a state issued vin.

I / WE would still like to see what this car looks like for all the effort your going thru to get her vined / titled ... and I think we have done ALOT of finger typing So ................................. PICS Please !!!!!! :D

[quote=zx401;940822]If you just want a set of tags to affix so you can title it, and you have a 68 that you are going to use for parts, why not just use the tags from the 68 you already own?


A nice 68 Camaro with vent windows perhaps?;)

Pass the popcorn please..and don't touch that dial

As stated in a previous post the car was hit in the back hard enough to not fix and use a "donor" car instead?? How about some pictures of the hull you bought. Without pics I'm going to assume it's a lot rougher than we're being told??

no, i'll get some pictures of it. Its not at my house or would have already had them up for ya'll.

seems like we are seeing another LEGAL vin swap from the 80's!! there has been many cars not just camaros done this way and is still done TODAY!!! and how do you know the vin for your shell???could have been one of two,, have you even done a search for the other vin?? i have sold many cars with state issued vin's with no trouble so just get a new vin for your camaro and go on,, why create all this confussion with such a simply problem??

seems like we are seeing another LEGAL vin swap from the 80's!! there has been many cars not just camaros done this way and is still done TODAY!!! and how do you know the vin for your shell???could have been one of two,, have you even done a search for the other vin?? i have sold many cars with state issued vin's with no trouble so just get a new vin for your camaro and go on,, why create all this confussion with such a simply problem??

He knows the vin because his hidden vin is there.There is ONLY 1 vin out there,it would be either a 124(8cyl)coupe/conv or a 123 (6cyl)coupe/conv vins were not issued with the same sequence# for both 6 & 8cyl. It is one or the other in this case it's an 8.This is the second time ive seen this refered to in this post.He has found the vin that goes with his car.

seems like we are seeing another LEGAL vin swap from the 80's!! there has been many cars not just camaros done this way and is still done TODAY!!! and how do you know the vin for your shell???could have been one of two,, have you even done a search for the other vin?? i have sold many cars with state issued vin's with no trouble so just get a new vin for your camaro and go on,, why create all this confussion with such a simply problem??

pretty sure the "VIN swap" in the 80's was as ILLEGAL as it is today ...

pretty sure the "VIN swap" in the 80's was as ILLEGAL as it is today ...

Not 100% correct. I believe it could have been done legally with inspections back in the day. This was brought up the other day by a friend of mine that owns a body shop. He just fixed an 06 crew cab diesel Dodge that required a cab replacement. A state trooper was sent out prior to any repairs and then after it was fixed for a post inspection. The officer looked at receipts for the cab purchase and signed off on the repairs. So It could and can still be legally done.

Not 100% correct. I believe it could have been done legally with inspections back in the day. This was brought up the other day by a friend of mine that owns a body shop. He just fixed an 06 crew cab diesel Dodge that required a cab replacement. A state trooper was sent out prior to any repairs and then after it was fixed for a post inspection. The officer looked at receipts for the cab purchase and signed off on the repairs. So It could and can still be legally done.

so POSSIBLY in whatever state you are referring to (and PERHAPS some other states?) you MAY be able to jump through hoops and LEGALLY do a VIN swap ? ?

Bo and Luke swapping VIN numbers in their back yard was and still is ILLEGAL though ...

UPDATE... I finally got in touch with the guy. Here is his story, he did own that car until he got rearended. Since he was the third owner of the car he took of the tags and put them on another car for resale value purposes. You know the less owners it has the more he can get. He does have a seperate set of VIN's that came off the car that he has put my VINs on. He rebuilt that car because it was in better shape than the one (mine) he got rearended in. He has a title in hand and the VIN's to that "other car" in an envelope and has offered for me to take them instead. What I want to know is what is so special about the VIN's that go to my car. I understand the resale value part, but crap its not going to help you that much. So what did that car come with? was it a SS or what? SO once again guys i have a dilema. WHAT SHOULD I DO?! take the other tags?

Isn't it funny that he kept the title and those VINs for so long? AND that he offered them to you. Does he feel guilty of something? He might... but he shouldn't.
As far as I understand you have HIS car in YOUR garage.

Think of this... If I cut 2 of the VINs out of my car and parked it in your garage while I am still holding a valid copy of the title does it become YOUR car ONLY because it is in your garage? Does giving $300 to someone without a title make it any more yours? I say that you walk over to his place and give him his body back for $300 + the cost to get it to your house. Then he can bring it to the wreckers and watch them crush it like they should have done years ago. It's his car buddy. Count your blessings because you got a "nice" project body (that has the rear end smashed up).

What ever happened with all of this?

Once you throw something away in the eyes of the law its not yours anymore.