fuel injected cross ram? [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: fuel injected cross ram?


cencal69
Feb 15th, 08, 09:18 AM
Can a cross ram manifold (1st gen cross ram repro) be plummed to run fuel injection. Ideally it would be nice to have direct port injecting. I can't see how this could be done, but I have much less knowledge than you all.

Thanks.

Fred Ficarra
Feb 15th, 08, 09:27 AM
Sure! I just took delivery of one of these yesterday. They make a dual quad version. Go for it!
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/bossefi/bossefi-single-quad.html

Vintage 68
Feb 15th, 08, 09:59 AM
With lots of imaginative engineering and some machining - you could install some of the injectors in the interior of the plenum (the front and rear pair of runners are not covered completly by the top plate), plumb the injectors and route the electrical through the rear of the lower casting (there are a few flat areas where buckhead hardware could be mounted) and then use two 'dummied' Holley carbs as the throttle plates (with the TPS hooked to the linkage or installed on the drivers side carb out of sight.) ...
But - hey, I'm a dreamer sometimes anyway :yes:

I've seen a few set-ups using small GM TBI units grafted to various manifolds and using various ECU's and sensor combo's - some looked quite nice and I was told worked very well.
I would try to stick to 'factory' type systems and sensors if you go this route as parts availablity and cost will be more reasonable in the long run.

Of course you could also mount a couple Holley 670 2bl TBI units on top ( no one will know once the air cleaner is installed), along with the proper sensors from their kit(s) and go from there.
I'd just buy two(2) complete kits if you go this route so you have some 'spares' to modify and use as you delevope the set-up.

Of course GM beat us all to a system like this in 1982 with the 'Cease-Fire' - oh, I'm sorry, it was really called the "Cross-Fire" system, used on early Corvettes and later Camaros.
These are actually decent systems for some uses and work quite well if you know how to tune and repair them. I had one on a boat for @5 years and it gave me no problems I couldn't handle.
It did have a habit of just not starting at times ...

You might want to check out - http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/index.php?id=2&title=Fuel+Injection

Hopefully others will chime in with more info for you.

TJS69
Feb 15th, 08, 10:01 AM
There are many aftermarket fuel injection systems that offer direct port injection systems.

Holley, Edelbrock, accel even GM.

http://www.holley.com/division/Holley.asp#2
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf_chevy.shtml
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACC%2D77143&N=700+4294925239+4294853151+115&autoview=sku
http://www.sdparts.com/catalog/crateengines/GMPerformanceParts350ci350hpRamJetEngine.aspx

Old Man
Feb 15th, 08, 12:14 PM
I'd think long and hard before going EFI over carbureated(SP?). Just about any intake manifold could be plumbed to run direct port injection but why? I have EFI in both my 4th gens and I can tell you tuning one is no walk in the park. To me a carb is so much simpler and easier to tune than EFI and no worries about electronics. IMO mechanical > electronics.

cencal69
Feb 15th, 08, 02:53 PM
Well I've thaught long and hard, and that's why I am here to ask you all. My buddy suggested the idea, and now I havn't slept in 2 days thinking of how it's possible to make it work. I have seen how it's been done on a 84? corvette with carbs, and I would really like to do this rather than see another LS, LT intake that has become oh so common. I appreciate the comments and suggestions, and I don't mind criticism either.

Plus, the cross ram is freakin sweet!

JimM
Feb 15th, 08, 03:52 PM
I like the idea, but the practical application of it is gonna be tough.

Finding a way to install 8 port injectors is the only thing that will really work. The pair of 2bbl tbi's idea is extremely attractive at first glance, but those manifolds have terrible wet flow at low rpm. The plenum is too big... fuel drops out of suspension. Heck, it's a race manifold and was never intended to see the south side of 5000 rpm. And 40 year old technology to boot.

cencal69
Feb 15th, 08, 03:55 PM
OK, how about a manifold, plumbed with injectors, and a top plate with a fabbed staggered dual throttle body setup?

JimM
Feb 15th, 08, 03:57 PM
How bout an "electronified" hilborn?
8 tall stacks sticking thru the hood would be too cool!

cencal69
Feb 15th, 08, 04:03 PM
Trying for the classic cross-ram look. This is the closest I've seen so far. I just think the look with the fuel injection would be the cat's ***.

Mat Klemp
Feb 15th, 08, 04:39 PM
I can't help but think of the mid 80's cross fire injection system. I actually have one sitting in the "I just might need this one day pile".

TTFN
Mat

pdq67
Feb 15th, 08, 08:17 PM
I'd stick the injectors in horizonally right in front of each port runners mouth on each sidewall and run the rails above the valve covers if possible??

Then run only one (1) centrally located bottom carb, 4-barrel butterfly plate just for ease of tune and linkage is all.

I think this is doable?

pdq67

cencal69
Feb 18th, 08, 03:48 PM
Has anyone heard of this company. They might be onto what I'm looking for.

http://www.x-ram.com/

Maybe

BA.
Feb 20th, 08, 08:39 PM
just thinking out loud....... just because it looks like a typical cross-ram on the outside doesn't mean you can't have runners or a smaller plenum on the inside! Epoxy is your friend if you know what you're doing. :) (ps. I do not know what I am doing)

Fred Ficarra
Feb 20th, 08, 10:42 PM
Here's the bottom of my new system. Just looks like a Holley from the top. And it's 1200cfm. There's lots of ways to get the job done. If you're a hotroder, make your own. I really related to the part about not sleeping for two days. That's what we hotrodders do!
http://epitomesrebuild.com/images/264.JPG

davidpozzi
Feb 20th, 08, 10:57 PM
I have an Offy cross ram intake. I looked at it a couple of years ago to see if it could be converted to EFI. Some of the injectors would have to be inside the plenum, either on each side, or in-line right down the middle. You might be able to "tunnel in" some injectors from the outside, but it would be a LOT of work and might not succeed. Another way might be to get injector adapters as sold on Ebay, then run a small line from the adapter to the port inside the plenum.


You could probably build one out of a Corvette TPI manifold or the Edelbrock version, then weld or epoxy on the top part to make it look like a factory X ram, but that would be a LOT of work!!!
David

Radcannon
Feb 21st, 08, 12:04 PM
you could always run the injectors into the runners by drilling them out and flushing the surface with a bit. The only problem would be the fuel rails you would have to make sure all your injectors are even and facing the same. it could be done but the injectors would be visible unless you tried to cover them up acting like the valve cover stuck out further or use them as a wiring loom attaching your wires to your fuel rail and injectors.

68sixspeed
Feb 22nd, 08, 07:11 PM
I have an Offy cross ram intake. I looked at it a couple of years ago to see if it could be converted to EFI. Some of the injectors would have to be inside the plenum, either on each side, or in-line right down the middle. You might be able to "tunnel in" some injectors from the outside, but it would be a LOT of work and might not succeed. Another way might be to get injector adapters as sold on Ebay, then run a small line from the adapter to the port inside the plenum.


You could probably build one out of a Corvette TPI manifold or the Edelbrock version, then weld or epoxy on the top part to make it look like a factory X ram, but that would be a LOT of work!!!
David


neat thread, I've been considering doing the same based on an offy manifold for my '69; possibly making a cnc'd top plate to make it work... guess this has been considered a few times already! The injector size and angle/position has been stumping me too. (trying to get the position right and be able to supply the fuel and wiring while all still looking neat and clean.)

cencal69
Feb 23rd, 08, 02:59 PM
Yeah, I think this idea would be the cat's *** if it can be pulled off. I am on the fence as to weather put my dated LT1 in the engine bay, or a classic looking 350. The fuel injected cross ram is the perfect comprimise if it can be done. I also have started to investigate a custom made intake manifold, for either the LT1 or a standard 350. The Edelbrock "air-gap" LT1 manifold would be tempting to cut the cast runners off, and have some interweaving "cross ram" runners fabbed leading up to a couple throttle bodies. The only problem is the answer to all these questions is "how much do you wanna spend". I'm not at the financial point where I can answer that question honestly. I think it's great that everyone has kinda chimed in on this. Now if one of the big name intake companies would just manufacture what about 20 of us want, that would be cool. Shoot, they might just sell a hundred or so.