Really need some electrical advice bigtime..........non Camaro [Archive] - Team Camaro Tech

: Really need some electrical advice bigtime..........non Camaro


nikkisdad
Feb 21st, 08, 11:21 PM
On our 2000 Buick Regal, when you put the key in the ignition and turn to start, every light in the dashboard blinks like a pinball machine. The car done this a couple of times before but started and would run, but now it will not crank, or just barely tries. Battery is good, the car is just over 100K miles, so I hate to junk it. Really weird when every light goes off on you and it is in rythm to the blinker sound. Its like all lights are hooked up to the emergency flashers. Wow, if you have a idea, please pass it on to me please!:beers:

ZZ430DropTop67RS
Feb 21st, 08, 11:28 PM
That sounds exactly like a bad body control module (BCM).

I worked on a 2000 Monte Carlo that did the same thing.

It might seem odd, but give the dashboard a slap and see if it changes.

nikkisdad
Feb 21st, 08, 11:42 PM
That sounds exactly like a bad body control module (BCM).

I worked on a 2000 Monte Carlo that did the same thing.

It might seem odd, but give the dashboard a slap and see if it changes.

OK, slapping this car poses no problem for me anymore, but what does the module look like and where is it located? I am very much appreciating any and all advice, this thing has already cost quite a few bucks so far.

martins 68
Feb 21st, 08, 11:43 PM
my caddie did the same thing it was the powertrain control module might try cleaning the battery connections and/or turning the key off and on three times fast

ZZ430DropTop67RS
Feb 21st, 08, 11:51 PM
OK, slapping this car poses no problem for me anymore, but what does the module look like and where is it located? I am very much appreciating any and all advice, this thing has already cost quite a few bucks so far.

Behind the dash in a nasty place. It looks like a small ECM. The dash pad will need to be removed, but the bad thing about it is the new BCM needs to be programmed. Only the dealer or a garage with a Tech 2 or later scanner can do it.

The independent garages pay GM dearly for the rights to do that.

nikkisdad
Feb 21st, 08, 11:54 PM
Just was looking in question and answers on this, and saw this on the same kind of question,





Man, I read these posts and just shake my head.
Most of these BCM replacements are done needlessly and that is a shame. There is a known problem for the BCM connectors being loose and causing most of the problems described.

If it is determined that it is indeed the BCM that is the problem, then you need to make certain that the updated BCM is installed.

The BCM (Body Control Module) feed all of the body information to the PCM (Powertrian control module), which is essentially the main computer. If the BCM is unable to communicate properly with the PCM, then you have the problems.

Bulletin No.: 04-08-47-003
Date: August 31, 2004
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Security Light On, Engine Will Not Crank, Diagnostic Trouble Codes B2958 and/or B2960 (Repair Poor Terminal Connections at Body Control Module)

Models:
2000-2005 Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo

Condition
Some customers may comment on an engine that will not crank. Others may comment on the security light being on.
Technicians may find DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes) B2958 and/or B2960.
Cause
These conditions may have several different causes. In each case, however, testing of the BCMs (Body Control Modules) replaced for these conditions are frequently found to be operating to specifications and are believed to have been replaced needlessly. A change was made to the BCM hardware in February of 2003. An updated BCM can be identified by a GMAN169 or higher number found on the BCM part label. This hardware change was made to prevent the remote possibility that a BCM, built after the GMAN169 number, could be the cause of these conditions.
Correction
The following are the likely causes of these conditions:
1. Damaged or loose/unseated terminals in these BCM connectors may cause a security light or no start condition:
^ BCM connector C1 (24-way, pink in color), terminal B9 (white wire, circuit 1459)
^ BCM connector C1 (24-way, pink in color), terminal B12 (black wire, circuit 1835)
^ BCM connector C2 (24-way, grey in color), terminal A3 (yellow wire, circuit 1836)
Important: Use only approved tools for removal and testing of terminals. Do not use unapproved tools to probe a terminal as this could cause damage. Use Probe Tool J 35616-6, from the J 35616-B terminal test kit, to test the terminals in the BCM connector.
2. Check all the terminals in both BCM connectors, focusing on the three terminals listed above, for damage and proper seating of the terminal in the connector. If no damage is noted, follow the normal SI diagnostic procedures including clearing codes and attempting to duplicate the concern.
3. Always check for and clear all DTCs after recharging or disconnecting the battery. Attempt to restart the vehicle only after all DTCs have been cleared. This will help prevent an unnecessary BCM replacement due to false DTCs being set while servicing the battery.
4. A BCM should not be replaced when DTCs U1016 and/or U1064 have been set, even though the BCM is turning on the security light. Diagnose and repair or replace components as directed by the diagnostic procedures for these diagnostic trouble codes.
5. A current or history diagnostic trouble code B2958 in the BCM and a loss of battery voltage due to a battery going dead or a battery disconnect may cause a no start condition upon recharging or reconnecting the battery. Clearing the diagnostic trouble code will allow the vehicle to start.
6. The security light may turn on when the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) or PCM (Powertrain Control Module) does not receive a state of health message from the BCM within a specified window of time. DTCs U1016 or U1064 may set. Upon receiving the state of health message again, the security light will go out and diagnostic trouble codes will go to history. If this happens frequently, the vehicle may exhibit an intermittent or random flash of the security light.

Replies to this message:

parkbrau
Feb 22nd, 08, 03:04 AM
Go to Autozone or whoever you have there, and borrow one of their code scanners. That will show you your faults. Good luck, and slap the crap out of that dash.

nikkisdad
Feb 22nd, 08, 09:41 PM
Go to Autozone or whoever you have there, and borrow one of their code scanners. That will show you your faults. Good luck, and slap the crap out of that dash.

OK, I slapped the crap out of the dash, and would you believe it started??!!
Well it run good enough to get home, and now I can take the time to check it out before bringing to a shop. Who would have guessed that a few good slaps would make you a electrical engineer? :beers: :yes:

BigDreams
Feb 23rd, 08, 02:59 AM
OK, I slapped the crap out of the dash, and would you believe it started??!!
Well it run good enough to get home, and now I can take the time to check it out before bringing to a shop. Who would have guessed that a few good slaps would make you a electrical engineer? :beers: :yes:

You Have not got to work on enough Fords then. Its an actual Procedure called "The Tap Test":D. Anyway I work for Saturn and we have the same Problems. GM electronics Pretty much suck. I just dont see the need to have EVERYTHING controlled by a module. Door locks, windows, lights, radio, you name it and its computer controlled. Even modules are controlled by other modules. I guess the whole power and ground system that worked for the past hundred years was too easy. I have access to GM dealer world for TSBs and repair procedures if you need any help.:beers:

How about this

#00-06-04-049B: Various Driveability Symptoms - Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Illuminates Intermittently, ABS Light On, DTCs Set, Engine Will Not Start (Repair Wire(s)) - (Dec 19, 2003)


Subject: Various Driveability Symptoms -- Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Illuminates Intermittently, ABS Light On, DTCs Set, Engine Will Not Start (Repair Wire(s))


Models: 1997-2003 Buick Century, Regal Built Prior to 2/03

2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo Built Prior to 2/03

1999-2001 Pontiac Grand Prix Built Prior to 10/1/00 -- VIN Breakpoint 1F136536




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to add additional models and model years and to include possible ABS indicator illuminated. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-06-04-049A (Section 06 - Engine).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment on one or more of the following conditions:

• Anti-Lock Brake System Warning Light illuminated

• Intermittent MIL/Service Engine Soon indicator illuminated

• Engine will not start

• Engine stalls after start up

• Various electrical system failures

• Various driveability concerns

Cause
These conditions may be caused from the engine wiring harness chaffing against the mounting ring on the A/C accumulator. This contact may cause a rub through to the wires enclosed in that harness, resulting in the above conditions. Damage to the harness may also result in several stored diagnostic trouble codes.

Correction
Inspect and repair any damaged wires. Use the procedure listed below.

Notice: Do not install plastic conduit over the repaired area. Doing so may damage the A/C accumulator.





Inspect and repair any damaged wires at the suspected area (1). Refer to Wiring Repairs in the Wiring Systems sub-section of the Service Manual. Wrap the repaired area with 3MŪ Electrical Moisture Sealant Patches, P/N 06149, or equivalent. Wrap the entire area of contact with friction material , P/N 22617849, to protect it from future damage.
Verify proper installation of the harness clamp that attaches the harness to the transmission. Reinstall if necessary.
Reposition the repaired harness away from the A/C accumulator. Pull the harness through the clamp at the transmission to remove any slack.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

22617849
Protector, Rocker Panel Molding
1


Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

N6610
Engine Wiring and/or Connector - Repair
0.3 hr

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

Mat Klemp
Feb 23rd, 08, 05:35 AM
That is a lot of good information Frank. I have a question to try to help myself get more organized. GM has put out a lot of service advisories like these. How do you find out if one might apply to the problem at hand. how are they organized so you can find out what you need ?


Thanks
Mat

BigDreams
Feb 23rd, 08, 10:09 AM
That is a lot of good information Frank. I have a question to try to help myself get more organized. GM has put out a lot of service advisories like these. How do you find out if one might apply to the problem at hand. how are they organized so you can find out what you need ?


Thanks
Mat

I am a tech for Saturn. GM has a website that you need a username and password for to get on. There are many TSB and things like this for all of their cars. I think all manufactures use something along the same lines. Let me know your make and model and problem and ill look for you. i cant put a link to it though. i have to copy and paste because its top secret GM stuff. :)

Tropic Cat
Sep 20th, 09, 07:36 AM
On our 2000 Buick Regal, when you put the key in the ignition and turn to start, every light in the dashboard blinks like a pinball machine.

First off I want to thank the moderators for having such a great Forum. I found this through Google last night as my 2000 Buick Regal has suddenly begun doing the exact same thing. All dash warning lights flashing to the sound of the "blinker" and the car cranks but will not run.

I followed the advice posted here, this morning I did the best I could checking for wiring harness chafing near the A/C Accumulator. On my car there is a thick wiring harness in the vicinity but it doesn't actually touch it.

One thing.. with nothing else to do, I sat in the driver's seat this morning and noticed two things. First, If i manually turn my headlights on (Dash mounted pull out type switch) the flashing warning lights return to normal and the car starts..and runs. If I turn the headlights off, the care stalls immediately.

Second, while these dash warning lights are flashing on and off, if I move the turn signal lever to either right hand or left hand turn, the dash goes dead as in no power at all running to it. I tried this with the headlights both on and off, and the same thing occurs.

Third, this problem occurred yesterday for the first time ever. I got the car home by turning the ignition switch on and off repeatedly until one time the dash lights looked normal and the car started and drove the couple of miles home, no problem, where of course the problem began again.

Ideas?
Thanks in advance. . it's an old car but I've had her since new and have little cash to invest in diagnostics right now as I'm out of work.

Car nut
Sep 20th, 09, 07:44 AM
Just a thought. What about the vats key?

Tropic Cat
Sep 20th, 09, 08:23 AM
Just a thought. What about the vats key?

You mean my ignition key? Hmmm... it does seem to have something that looks like it might make an electrical connection. Could it be this simple? How do you check this?