There is a Pizza carry out and delivery with 5 small tables and the usual menu that I am looking at.

I just want to know besides long hours what are some of the headaches/problems......Looking into it for my wife......

Thanks 8 Ball

Jersey pizza!! Small place like that could be very manageable. Biggest problem might just be finding a good employee for when she can't be there. The bigger the menu the more work too.
I used to work at a pizza place in NY that on Friday and Saturday nights we would do as many as 1200 pizzas. They were goooood too. Sadly, today that restaurant is a church. I think its called the garlic bread of life church.

There is a Pizza carry out and delivery with 5 small tables and the usual menu that I am looking at.

I just want to know besides long hours what are some of the headaches/problems......Looking into it for my wife......

Thanks 8 Ball

Too many people think owning a profitable restaurant is easy, and it's not. Close to 60% fail within 1-3yrs of opening, which is not that far of from the success rate of other new businesses, contrary to what is commonly believed. So...how long has this existing one been open? Have you seen their P&L's?

Does your wife have extensive restaurant management experience?
Does she understand the dynamics of food cost? Labor cost? Paper cost? Condiment cost? Can she create a P&L or does she at least know how to read one? Would she understand what a rise of .40 cents per gallon of gas would do to her costs by determining delivery radius, frequency, etc..?

Here's an ironic bit of "fact for the day" :) : Most of us know at least one person or family that has owned a single family restaurant for quite some time. We all assume they're "successful" simply because they continue to operate, right? Well, some are. However, there are large number that are only profitable to the extent they can pay their employees and barely pay their bills. And they're lucky....because they have no real idea of how to successfully run a restaurant and maximize profits.

Now, if you wife has managed a McD's, BK, or Wendy's for any significant period of time? She can probably run a pizzeria with her eyes closed and actually understand where she is financially on a monthly basis. Seriously.

I don't know if this stat is current but when I was in the restaurant business it was said for every 100 restaurants to open only 1 survives the first year. That's because the folks opening them have no prior industrial cooking experience, have no previous experience dealing with food costs and suppliers and have no previous experience in bookkeeping. It's also said that a new restaurant owner should have enough money in the bank to carry the business for that 1st year as it establishes itself. A 5 table shop means 90% of your business will be takeout and delivery which actually complicates the business process. Kitchen work is some of the dirtiest, hottest greasiest work there is. 8-10 hrs in a kitchen and the only thing on your mind is a shower and a change of cloths.

I'm not trying to paint a totally negative picture, restaurant work can be fun and rewarding for the right type of person. You really have to love the work to succeed and if you realize the challanges ahead of time your chances of being that 1 out of 100 are greatly increased...

Kevin - this is spooky and this isn't the 1st time, you and I are going to have to meet sometime! :D

Keep the menu simple, keep the place clean, dont go cheap on ingredients, and make sure somebody who works there is carrying "protection" and you should be sucessfull for years! Ive been around restaurants for years because my family owns many of them here in Pittsburgh.

Kevin - this is spooky and this isn't the 1st time, you and I are going to have to meet sometime! :D

LOL. Agreed!

I don't own a pizza place however I purchase pizza's from a joint called "Pizza Place"!.....Does that qualify?, if so, what did I win?, a pizza?

I know of a place that was struggling for a very long time. They had very hard time keeping help (it's not a unique problem). UNTIL they started hring the people no one would hire, dyed hair, heavily tatoo'd, tons of piercings. It made for a very unique place, and the service was great.

I worked in pizza delivery places through highschool and college. I worked at small local chains, one-store startups, and big national chains. Several of those small chains went under, and all for pretty much the same reason IMO. In each case, business slowed down some, and they dealt with that by cutting costs until food quality and service declined. Once you compromise on quality or service, revenue drops like a rock and you are out of business.

As far as day to day operations goes, pizza places are pretty easy to run. And most of the carryout/delivery places are run identically--they all copied Dominos. I worked at a couple of small pizza places where the nightly paperwork (back before computers) was literally xeroxes of Dominos' paperwork where someone had covered up the Dominos' logo. The cooking part of pizza is really easy, and it's not dirty and greasy work like a cooking on a line. The dirtiest part is getting covered in flour if you are tossing dough.

If you are serious about getting into the pizza delivery biz, my suggestion would be to go get a job working at a Papa John's store for a month or so to learn how the business works.

They had very hard time keeping help (it's not a unique problem). UNTIL they started hring the people no one would hire, dyed hair, heavily tatoo'd, tons of piercings.


If it comes down to this then he'd just have to call the place something like "Freaky's Pizza Place" or "Weirdo's Pizza"!:yes::thumbsup:


Also, if you do decide to venture into this, make sure you carry the stuffed crust pizza, which is my favorite!

Pizza is a tough business! The profit margins are so low that nearly anything can throw your bottom line into a tail spin. Here in California we can buy a jumbo take-n-bake in Safeway (Grocery store) for nine bucks. I can't make it at home for that and if you aren't doing a huge business, you can't make it for that either. If you are lucky you will gross about $1.00 per pie. Do the math and try to see if you will sell enough to survive at that low a margin. Remember that the competition is the mega-chains like Round Table and Pizza Hut, who sell millions of pies every week. Good luck if you do decide to persue it though.

Pizza is a tough business! The profit margins are so low that nearly anything can throw your bottom line into a tail spin.

Any restaurant is a tough business, and most are what I call "nickel and dime" businesses. If you don't watch your nickels and dimes, you won't have dollars to count at the end. And if you don't have systems in place, as I mentioned earlier (food, labor, paper costs etc..), you will certainly fail. And even if you do have systems in place, you have to understand how to monitor and correct fluctuations in those costs. I can't stress this enough. People see "pimple-faced teens" managing McD's and assume it's a job that any simpleton can do. They couldn't be more wrong. Yep, Pizza joints are easier to run in principle, as they are usually much less complex in nature. But....the business principle, while smaller in scope, is the same. And I can tell you this; good managers from the 3 major chains (McD's, BK, Wendys) can manage a Domino's or Papa Johns with both eyes closed, and they're desirable candidates, even crossing over into casual or full svc dining. But...the same cannot be said in reverse, in most cases. The difference....is in knowing how to run a business, not just serving quality food and making customers happy.

The serving quality food is the most important part.

If it's good, people will come back.

Beware of food costs as well. There was just a story last week about meteoric flour cost hikes. Bread makers all over the city are shell shocked and scrambling to absorb this increase. The problem is that flour is gonna be one of your basis material costs. In a perfect world, you can simply raise the cost of a pie. In the real world, you have to keep the price at a point where you can still actually sell them.

alan

There is a Pizza carry out and delivery with 5 small tables and the usual menu that I am looking at.

I just want to know besides long hours what are some of the headaches/problems......Looking into it for my wife......

Thanks 8 Ball

Send a PM or e-mail to Robert68 He owns a pizza place near my house in VA. :thumbsup:

8-ball i see you on jersey shore. where at. and pizza place at on a boardwalk. summertime you will get money but in winter business slows down.my cousin owns a bar/ restaurant near long beach island. 4 -2 past years business is going down. as it goes get money from summer to get through winter. as in seaside longbeach island and such. some stay during winter but wont bring you cash to last winter. for travel to your restaurant. look at the restaurant books during summer and winter before you decide. it is so easy to go into business or buy 1 but to say im going broke is another part of it. gl on your business or dream.

I don't know if this stat is current but when I was in the restaurant business it was said for every 100 restaurants to open only 1 survives the first year. That's because the folks opening them have no prior industrial cooking experience, have no previous experience dealing with food costs and suppliers and have no previous experience in bookkeeping. It's also said that a new restaurant owner should have enough money in the bank to carry the business for that 1st year as it establishes itself. A 5 table shop means 90% of your business will be takeout and delivery which actually complicates the business process. Kitchen work is some of the dirtiest, hottest greasiest work there is. 8-10 hrs in a kitchen and the only thing on your mind is a shower and a change of cloths.

I'm not trying to paint a totally negative picture, restaurant work can be fun and rewarding for the right type of person. You really have to love the work to succeed and if you realize the challanges ahead of time your chances of being that 1 out of 100 are greatly increased...

Dennis,

Were you in the resturaunt biz locally? My grandparents had a resturaunt in San Jose for over 30 years, called Mike's Xlnt Foods/Mike's Cafe' on Bascom & Fruitdale. They sold it sometime ago, man I miss that place. :( I worked there my whole life practically as a dish washer, bus boy, waiter, breakfast shift cook at 12 years old. I'd love to own a small resturaunt/cafe someday. My uncle has a small breakfast/lunch place in Lodi. My dad had a 50's style place in Redwood City back in the early 90's. It had pinball games, sparkly red booths, black & white checkered floors, pictures of muscle cars & hot rods on the walls, and he'd have car shows every 1st Friday of the month. I'd love to have a place like that.

Once my girlfriend gets her doctorate in psycology and starts making good $, I'm gonna quit my job and go to a culinary academy. Atleast that's the plan so far, but I have 3 more years to research what it takes to be profitable doing a burger/bbq joint. That is my dream though, one of them anyways.

I've never done it but I would steer away. Lots of work and very little profit from what I hear. Unless you are making a good living and she is just looking for a little extra cash.

Dennis,

Were you in the resturaunt biz locally? My grandparents had a resturaunt in San Jose for over 30 years, called Mike's Xlnt Foods/Mike's Cafe' on Bascom & Fruitdale. They sold it sometime ago, man I miss that place. :( I worked there my whole life practically as a dish washer, bus boy, waiter, breakfast shift cook at 12 years old. I'd love to own a small resturaunt/cafe someday. My uncle has a small breakfast/lunch place in Lodi. My dad had a 50's style place in Redwood City back in the early 90's. It had pinball games, sparkly red booths, black & white checkered floors, pictures of muscle cars & hot rods on the walls, and he'd have car shows every 1st Friday of the month. I'd love to have a place like that.

Once my girlfriend gets her doctorate in psycology and starts making good $, I'm gonna quit my job and go to a culinary academy. Atleast that's the plan so far, but I have 3 more years to research what it takes to be profitable doing a burger/bbq joint. That is my dream though, one of them anyways.

No I'm a transplant, I grew up in Santa Barbara and and did all my restaurant time there. I've done dishwashing, busing, waiting, hosting, food prep, fry cook, wheel (all 3 meals) and broiler. I also managed/cooked (today they call that chef) in a one cook dinner house and have some bakery experience. It was a long time ago but something I really enjoyed.

Where in Jersey shore? I'm a Belmar native.


I was just talking to the owner of a local pizza place. He says he is getting squeezed something fierce on food costs, esp. cheese.

No, but my parents have a mexican american food restaurant. They have had it since 1982 .. talk about growing up Lonely !! That place take up all of there time and yes it has made us money but at the same time its taken away things that money cant ever buy!

The health inspectors are tough, and now that if you fail inspection the local news gets all the reports and they go and interview the owners and humiliate them on TV. Thank god my parents pass all the time.!

Thanks for all the replies.....

The one I am looking at is near my old home town not the shore. It is about 8+/-years old. It needs some small remolding cleaning etc. These things are within my field and costs would be able to be controled (would not have to hire out) and are calculated in my working capital.

All the equipment though used is in working order and the fire and health inspections are to date. I still have to look into the insurance and talk to the landlord as the lease expires in 2 years plus a list of other things right now.

Delivery guys work for the delivery fee $2 + tips. I do know about the costs of wheat and inventory going up. I have a long time friend that has a simular resturant. I have helped out in all positions over the years easy stuff but long hours for sure. However we do not have resturant management background as mentioned and I am sure the bottom line is based on how things are managed. A small plus, my wife has worked in the food industry for 20+ years again not as a manager.

The present owner is willing to stay on for a small period of time to help with the transfer.

From what I have been told that the P&L should not be the basis as a pizza place is a cash business. I know I know do not believe what you read.......Bizology (http://bizology.com/howto/startrestaurant.html) one sorce.....also from my friends business. Not relying on that but considering it a plus to other types of buisness for her.

The Investment capital is fair (cost to purchase turn key) but I calculate that the working capital would be at about 50% of investment capital to cover change over 6 months operating exp, give aways (free food), signs, menus etc. It is on a busy road and it is a leased location corner building plenty of parking. Location has mostly older homes, alot of apartments and quite a few businesses within it delivery range. I would estimate income to be middle to lower in the area.

I guess the biggest fear is the time away from the kids as RobSS1113 stated. My children are 16 and 11 and we do not want to see them suffer from the ownership. My wife and I both work now on opposite shifts so that one of us is always home. That would be much harder to do for sure but in a few years the kids will be gone not sure how to look at that. I know after they start to drive (16 year old has permit) that they will not be at home as much but will still need us.

I am in residential construction and I do have a good customer base things are slow right now which is okay as I would have to be a big part of starting this up along with continuous hours there after perhaps the first year or two. I always wanted a buisness that both my wife and I could work together some day I just do not know if this is it........

Thanks again
8Ball

I have opened and owned 3 pizza franchises for 3 years. It is a VERY competitive business. I have 20 years experience in Food and own a number of restaurants.

In pizza, you need households in your delivery area. Businesses and traffic are not as important. It is mainly a weekend and dinner business. It requires alot of work and needs your attention every single day if you want to succeed.

You need to make sure your lease is extended.
You need to deliver fast and make good pizza.

I could write a book on my experience and I can tell you it was and is alot harder than I expected. Why is the owner selling?
P&L statements do not lie, I would use them in my decision making.
I wouldnt by anything unless the return on investment is there, otherwise stick with what you are doing and invest in something else.

As a consumer of food I can say this. When it comes to price it's looked at as gauge of what your paying and what you expect to get for your money. If I am paying good money for a pizza...say $15.00 then it better be a good one and not some stuffed crust Pizza Hut remake that cost $5.00 more.

When I lived in San Diego I went to a place called Sammys Wood Fired Pizza to get pizza. It was twice as much cost wise and di not deliver to me (to far) so I had to pick it up. Cost did not even matter when the decision came up for pizza....off to Sammys we went. Garlic chicken was the one I got all the time and it was out of this world. I have never had better pizza anyplace!!!

When making pizza and making it good you can charge more for good pizza. People appriciate good food, I will and have places picked out all over that I go too when in a certine town. Having a good place witha good name that is clean and has awsome food is in my opinion acually hard to find. In my little town in South Arkansas there is a place called the Sand Bar. We have out of town travelers here all the time and I challange you to find a better steak anyplace. There are people that come many miles to get one.

Get that going for you with pizza and you my friend will have a good business. It's all about good food, good service a clean place and making a customer happy if they are not happy with your food.

Of course this all just a customers opinion.

Keep the menu simple, keep the place clean, dont go cheap on ingredients, and make sure somebody who works there is carrying "protection" and you should be sucessfull for years! Ive been around restaurants for years because my family owns many of them here in Pittsburgh.

GO SENS GO!!! :hurray::hurray::hurray:

Thanks for all the precautionary advice I was not looking at all these things in the black and white way I see them here.

Right now we are still interested and will proceed with these and other recommendations for now. We are also still concerned on the long hours and the adjustment to the family. This week is a perfect example of scouting Tuesday night, parent teacher conferences Wednesday night, 2 doctor appointments during afternoon hours (colds) and a overnight boy scout camping trip Saturday and Sunday..........though not a typical week our schedule does look like that from time to time.

We did attend the franchise expo in DC over the weekend. Most vendors said the same about the bottom line and that thier training is more on how to manage the resturant rather then how to make product.

I am going to see the owner this week and ask for the P&L and also vendor info (statements 3 months) as someone else recommended ...... what he is buying is what he is selling......amount of inventory turned per month.......

I am currently doing some shadowing and I have some spys checking dinner hours and delivery men traffic to help validate sales also. The worst that can happen at this point is someone else buys it and that just means it is was not meant to be.

Thanks again for all the help.....and I thought buying a first generation was hard.......lol

8Ball

Hours are long, profit margin is thin, the unexpected problems and $ setbacks invariably happen...as in most businesses. I think the 2 main factors are family, and whether you & spouse want to be work-centered or not. For some this would be a dream come true, for others a nightmare they would never do.

Family: evening family time to me is sacred. Now that my daughter is out of the house and my son is 15, I'm looking back, even though I was there, the time just went in the blink of an eye. So it's the largest consideration. If your kids were involved in the business it could be a +. (My wife runs a service business and always tried to get the kids involved; they did to a point, but then shied away simply because as a teenager who wants to be hanging around your mother's shop??) So it depends on your family and your vision of family time....another thought is to study and possibly work at other restaurants for a few years (you might lose this particular pizza joint sale) and once your kids are out the door THEN you'll have more time, or can create more time w/o feeling guilty.

Work-centered: Again, soul-searching is the key- do you want to be a work-centered couple or a home-centered couple? Only you can answer that. Personally I like working for someone else (state of WI) because I leave work on Friday and can be a weekend warrior, and someone else deals with all the headaches. Also, I can just walk away and find another job, that is psychologically satisfying to me! I don't handle stress well enough to have to worry about business concerns, insurance, taxes, purchasing, p & l, etc.-- every time the phone would ring I'd be wondering what's going on now. This would wear on me. Just depends on if you thrive on this kind of action or not. I'm sure you've thought all this out over and over...

Anyway good luck w/your decision, and post updates!

Terry M.

I own a pizza restaurant on the border of Dublin/San Ramon in the Bay Area, CA. We have been open for 11 years and I took over ownership January 2007 (mother in law was previous owner). I dont have any kids (maybe next year) and my fiance has her own job outside of the restaurant. An average day for me is 10-12 hours long on my feet. Do I mind? Not at all.

Here is whats going to make or break your pizza restaurant:

1.Competition - I can think of 14 other pizza restaurants withing 5 miles of mine.
2. Food Cost - Last month I was paying 10$ a bag of dough. This month its $16. Cheese was 1.76lb now its 2.02 . How do you solve this? Raise prices. Cheese and wheat is going up like gas
3. Labor - If the employees arent needed send them home.
4. Rent - Lock in a good long term lease with an option to renew.
5. Customer Service - be nice to everyone. Smile. If the customer complains about something make them a new pizza.
6. Advertise and call your local schools - Get into lunch programs, sports teams, groups, fundraisers, etc.
7. Remodeling - We remodeled last year and business went up 20%. People like modern looking places.

Oh and if I can give you some advice. NEVER work with your family. If you think you get along now wait until you spend 12 stressfull and busy hours a day with them. Its worth the money to hire someone else.

P&L has nothing to do with it being a cash business.

Good friend of mine owned a pizza store for a few years. Lots of business, in CT, well managed, never made more than $50k per year. With all of the competition, it was difficult to expand the business to earn more money. Also he and his wife worked there full time.

Went last night Friday until 1:45am phone started ringing around 12:30 as predicted by owner. He is the only game in town and looks like the place does do a late night delivery business. I met with two employees that can cook deliver answer phones make boxes etc.

There are no tickets all are written on scrap paper if a home delivery customer wants a ticket the delivery guy will write one on the spot.

The sales going thru the registar are the carry out and dellivery until after dinner and then delivery is kept on a white board and then squared with each dellivery guy at end of night. This is where the cash is........The registar sales keep it looking afloat and liget.

I can see the long hours and the need to be there for most of them. I think that it has alot of potential it is in need of remoldling. It has been open for about 8+ years and was a spin off of a partner from another place who built it and then retired. The present owner has had it for about three years and is looking to move west.

I got to see vendor reciepts and some sale figures. He is going to have the accoutant produce additional info as far to what taxes he is paying and bottom line numbers.

I want to make an offer but plan on waiting until I get above info and have a pro go over numbers and a resturant owner (friend) check out equipment ovens fryers and such. If we decide to go for it I plan on offering less than the asking price with a suitable refundable deposit etc. I feel there is a little room to bargin but he told me he has gotten a few low ball offers already and laughed about that some. I think he knows what it does and it has a value. I just need go be sure that is true and what the value is........

I appreciate the input as it has been helpful so far to see what this would be really like to handle........own....manage......

8Ball

You should get rid of the handwritten tickets. Get a decent POS system that will print directions for the drivers and keep everything on computer. If theres only 5 tables in your restaurant then you will need to have very strong take out/delivery.

As for the value... Id say take 8 months of sales (whats on paper not cash) and there is a price you pay for the business.

If you do get it then get some of these pizza slice magnets they are pretty cool. People stick them on their fridge.

www.magneticadconcepts.com

Thanks John for all your help.......

I have looked at the POS software and complete systems and it is the way to go I am sure. I did not like the hand tickets either was really a suprise to see the order written on a cut up coupon and sent to the line. I know that the hand ticket gives you a place to do cash but I would think the IRS does not like them to well.

I think the magnets will attract alot of buisness also.....pund intended.

Cameras are also on my list. I want to see what is going on from a laptop or pc when if I am not on site.

8ball

You should get rid of the handwritten tickets.

He should start paying his sales tax and income tax on his delivery business too. I don't know how they do things out in Cali, but in TN, the TN Dept of Revenue would padlock your door in a heartbeat if they caught you doing that.

Cameras are also on my list. I want to see what is going on from a laptop or pc when if I am not on site.

8ball


Is there Costco stores out there? You can get a camera system from them or on www.costco.com (http://www.costco.com)

So, my big question is the lot big enough for a cruise? :)

I am just going to throw this out here. What about a business where you have a truck mounted paper shredder and go to businesses and shred sensitive documents for them? We find that our little office shredder can't keep up with shredding demands. The neat thing about this business is not only can you generate money shredding but you can sell the shredded paper as well. It would seem that you wouldn't be plagued by night hours in this situation.

alan

I am just going to throw this out here. What about a business where you have a truck mounted paper shredder and go to businesses and shred sensitive documents for them? We find that our little office shredder can't keep up with shredding demands. The neat thing about this business is not only can you generate money shredding but you can sell the shredded paper as well. It would seem that you wouldn't be plagued by night hours in this situation.

alan

Shred-It. Big company here in the Bay

Rodder "He should start paying his sales tax and income tax on his delivery business too." I agree that is why I like the POS systems they do all that tracking and even let you know when to order inventory........

John 510 thanks again.......I will check them out.....

alanrw.... One of my customers uses that type of service and loves it....they come they shred they leave..........pretty simple but I would have to look into how many are already out there.....I think I could tear up in that business lol......also the storage of documents for doctors etc......they have to keep files 7 years even if the patient had only one visit......is also BIG.....

BozonHansen Maybe, if after 5pm....there is a dry cleaner on one corner and the resturant is on the other...20 car meet up......there is a Large retail liquor giant store whose parking lot is adjoining could probally get away with a Sunday morning and use there space also...50 cars.....BTW are you going to the Nationals?

8Ball

Matt - Sorry for the delayed response. I will send you a pm with my cell number, if you want give me a call. I've owned a pizza place for the past 10 years.

I have read most of the posts on here, many make some really good points! - Rob

Shred-It. Big company here in the Bay

Well, the reason I brought it up was here in SoCal, when I called to have 5 boxes shredded, I was told by several companies they couldn't get out to me for 3-5 days. When they got there, they take my 5 boxes of biz records, throw them into the machine, 5 min later $150. So I begin to think, if I can

1. offer same day service
2. undercut the price..........
3. build the client base


Granted, fuel has gone up and needs to be factored in. John, do you happen to know what Shred-it charges?

alan

Well, the reason I brought it up was here in SoCal, when I called to have 5 boxes shredded, I was told by several companies they couldn't get out to me for 3-5 days. When they got there, they take my 5 boxes of biz records, throw them into the machine, 5 min later $150. So I begin to think, if I can

1. offer same day service
2. undercut the price..........
3. build the client base


Granted, fuel has gone up and needs to be factored in. John, do you happen to know what Shred-it charges?

alan


What are the liabilities in a business like this? Would you need some form of insurance almost like medical malpractice ins? Would your employees be requiried to be bonded? Is a paper shredder position paid enough to insure high quality trustable employees? Or is a gig like this a one man/truck band thing?

What are the liabilities in a business like this? Would you need some form of insurance almost like medical malpractice ins? Would your employees be requiried to be bonded? Is a paper shredder position paid enough to insure high quality trustable employees? Or is a gig like this a one man/truck band thing?

All excellent points Dennis, no doubt you want liability.

My idea was one man, one truck. I was merely thinking of this for a guy who is looking for something to do in the second half. Having employees would complicate the entire deal by 1000% what with malpractice ins, work comp, etc, etc, etc. I mean if you can make 5-10 pickups a day, that's decent money.

The idea was to fill a niche that the big boys might not be able to.....small buisnesses looking for a cheaper solution and home owners who have more material than the Office Depot personal shredder can handle.

But then again, you recall the story of the kid who started 1-800 GOTJUNK and is now a gazillionaire.

alan

BozonHansen Maybe, if after 5pm....there is a dry cleaner on one corner and the resturant is on the other...20 car meet up......there is a Large retail liquor giant store whose parking lot is adjoining could probally get away with a Sunday morning and use there space also...50 cars.....BTW are you going to the Nationals?

8BallWe'd roll for pizza! :yes: Which Nationals? At Island in Aug (yes) or Carlisle in June (yes).