curious as to when did production end and start for the 1970 z/28 or date of first and last 70 z/28 does anyone know

Im pretty sure the 70 camaro began to manufactured in 69 but they held out until 70 to release them for sale. I do believe. I also think it was in the middle of the year they actually starting selling them...hence the 70 and a half camaro. I think im right if not im darn close!

Here you will find all info you need:

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro70.php

.Bad75!
They started production in Feb 1970



Jan

The first 1970 Camaros were actually made in november of 1969 but the actual production start was first week of January, 1970 and ran until the last week of July.

There is no such thing as a 70 and a half (70 1/2) Camaro. Another urban myth.

Earliest Z/28 I know of is 02B and the latest is 07E

Rick H.

My '70 Z is an 08A.

go to www.nastyz28.com and register your car there:

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32146

there is a huge database of the early (70-73) 2nd gen Camaros:

http://www.camaro2ndgenerationregistry.net/

the latest on file is 07E, the earliest is 01A

New website (still being worked on):

http://www.camaro2ndgenerationregistry.net/work/index.php

There is no such thing as a 70 and a half (70 1/2) Camaro. Another urban myth.


Thank You !!! I had this conversation with a fellow Car friend of mine yesterday as a matter of fact. and I kept telling him ... There is No 70 1/2 Camaro .. its just a 70 !! I also said "So if I was born in July 1975, I should tell people I was born IN 1975 and a half?" . !! I was really born in Jan, but I was just making a point.

I then told him .. Look at the title it should just say 70 ! he claims it says 70 1/2 ! if thats true then there are some dumb people at the DMV.!:sad:

Wasn't the delay/reduced number of 70 camaros the result of a strike?

As for 70 1/2 and DMV - this is similar to the 64 1/2 Mustang. DMV in all states recorded them as 65s.

Wasn't the delay/reduced number of 70 camaros the result of a strike?

As for 70 1/2 and DMV - this is similar to the 64 1/2 Mustang. DMV in all states recorded them as 65s.

Initial production was not impacted by a strike, just another urban myth... The '69 would not have continued and run over into 1970 production if a strike was impacting Camaro production...

Wasn't the delay/reduced number of 70 camaros the result of a strike?

As for 70 1/2 and DMV - this is similar to the 64 1/2 Mustang. DMV in all states recorded them as 65s.

Actually, I have always heard it was fitmit and tooling issues?

Anyone?

R

My '70 Z is an 08A.

You need to register your car. It's the latest one I know of now.

Rick H.

There is no such thing as a 70 and a half (70 1/2) Camaro. Another urban myth.

I'm sure that's true, however, I'm also sure that many, many dealers referred to them as 70 1/2 as it did come out in mid year.....probably the source of the urban myth.

Remember the 64 1/2 Mustang?

Remember the 64 1/2 Mustang?

The Mustang was introduced in Apr of 1964 not Sept/Oct of '63 so it's mid year introduction led to it being called the '64 1/2. I believe Ford refered to it as a '64 for a while even though all of them got registered as 65's. My understanding is there were a few minor changes when the real '65 model year started in Sept/Oct of '64 and there were 5 paint colors dropped from production.

I'm sure that's true, however, I'm also sure that many, many dealers referred to them as 70 1/2 as it did come out in mid year.....probably the source of the urban myth.

Remember the 64 1/2 Mustang?

As well as every magazine published during that time frame.

Rick H.

Wasn't the delay/reduced number of 70 camaros the result of a strike?

No. The rear quarter dies had major problems and they could not be resolved. They had to build the dies again. Big $$ and time.

You need to register your car. It's the latest one I know of now.

Rick H.


I just tried and the website is not working correctly. Anyways, my Z/28 is N59155* and my TT says it's an 08A. Pretty darn cool if it's the last known 1970 Z!

My Dad worked @ the Van Nuys plant from 1955- 1988
IIRC,he said they my 1969 Camaros through 1970.

MBHD

My Dad worked @ the Van Nuys plant from 1955- 1988
IIRC,he said they my 1969 Camaros through 1970.

MBHD


Huh? Are you trying to say Van Nuys made 1969 Camaros through 1970?? If so..Nope!

Rick H.

VN production of 69 Camaros ended in July 69, NOR ended in November 69.

I just tried and the website is not working correctly. Anyways, my Z/28 is N59155* and my TT says it's an 08A. Pretty darn cool if it's the last known 1970 Z!

I show your VIN as being a late July build date. Last VIN for the 1970 model year I show ended in July. Interesting that your 1970 trim tag is 08A.

Could you send me a picture of it?
Thanks
Rick H.

I show your VIN as being a late July build date. Last VIN for the 1970 model year I show ended in July. Interesting that your 1970 trim tag is 08A.

Could you send me a picture of it?
Thanks
Rick H.


Car is in the middle of getting restored but I will send you a pic when I get it back.

Car is in the middle of getting restored but I will send you a pic when I get it back.

Sounds familiar. Mine is also being restored. Send a picture when you get the chance.
Thanks
Rick H.

Let me hunt down the GM of Canada docs for everyone to see. It will also show when the car was built.

My Dad worked @ the Van Nuys plant from 1955- 1988
IIRC,he said they my 1969 Camaros through 1970.

MBHD

I might interprete what he said as "the 1969 model carried over into the normal 1970 model year", meaning into the normal start in August/September time frame.

Was 69 Z28's the most produced Z28's ever,because they were still making them in the year 1970?

MBHD

Was 69 Z28's the most produced Z28's ever,because they were still making them in the year 1970?

MBHD

No - not even close.

Here is some info from 1st gen Camaro
http://www.firstgencamaro.com/1969.html

By 1969, the Camaro was extremely popular. Sales had steadily increased during the first years of the Camaro and set a new all-time high, thanks to its long production run (from September 1968 through February 1970

The 1970 model Camaro wasn't introduced until February 26, 1970. This production total wasn't exceeded until 1978.
MBHD

thanks for all the input, will check out all info avalable from nasty z/28 also.:thumbsup:

Kurt: I think you will get a kick after reading Generations/Second Generation/I am buying a 1970 1/2 camaro z/28 Copo 9796 post in Team Camaro Forums :o))

By 1969, the Camaro was extremely popular. Sales had steadily increased during the first years of the Camaro and set a new all-time high, thanks to its long production run (from September 1968 through February 1970

The 1970 model Camaro wasn't introduced until February 26, 1970. This production total wasn't exceeded until 1978.
MBHD

My 1970 Camaro was built the 3rd week of January so that throws out that time frame theory. There is a lot of misinformation and mislabeling that has occured over the years but basically, there is no such thing as a 1/2 year any car of any make/model. The 64-1/2 Mustang is a 64 Mustang, etc. The VIN and title call out the model year plain and simple. The press likes to use the 1/2 year moniker to help hype things. The new Camaro will be at Indy this year, is it a 2008-1/2 or a 2009?

The 69 production ended at Van Nuys factory in November of 69 but were sold as new cars until superseded by the 70 model in February of 1970. Although GM did publish brochures showing the 69 model as a 70 model the VIN's were dated 69. Dealers and Magazines coined the label "70 1/2 Camaro" which does uniquely ID the 70 model by enthusiasts and some dealers did in fact erroneously registered 69 models as 70 models with the MVR but this is only a registration issue and does not reflect actual GM production dates of the 69 model.

The 70 model was in fact originally scheduled by GM to be released as a new model in 71 but GM hurried production to compete with Ford's Mustang and Maverick and in the process blotched the rear end dies there by delaying the scheduled fall launch for the 70 model to February of 1970. It was very confusing time for both the Camaro Buyer and Dealer when you were looking at 2 different cars on the show room floor and the salesman told you they were both 1970's. I was there and wanted to buy one but could not afford my 70Z until 1976.

Hence the paradox and the unique unofficial label "70 1/2 Camaro" associated with the 70 model in Automotive History and I like it as the debate will always arise when you drive one :o))

Ron, Van Nuys production was over the end of June. Norwood continued until the end of November. I doubt that the '70 was scheduled as a 1971 model but hurried out early. 3 years was about the design cycle back then. John Z has stated several times there was a tooling problem that delayed the 1970 model year production. Period.

What is the big deal and why beat a certified dead horse?

Here is some info from 1st gen Camaro
http://www.firstgencamaro.com/1969.html

By 1969, the Camaro was extremely popular. Sales had steadily increased during the first years of the Camaro and set a new all-time high, thanks to its long production run (from September 1968 through February 1970

MBHD

Nice, but as noted above, that's wrong. No 69's produced after 1st week of Nov 69.
http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#When

And if you take out the extended production months, 69 production would have been about 200,000, the lowest of the first gen years. Go figure....

The new Camaro will be at Indy this year, is it a 2008-1/2 or a 2009?

Chevy has already stated the new Camaro will be a 2010 model available around Feb or Mar 2009... Go figure, :yes:

Dennis: Excuse me Norwood my mistake. Although on the drawing board the reason for the 2nd Gen release wasn't all that simple eg; strike, die errors ... etc. High ranking GM Officials were actually planning to scrub the 2nd Gen design and continue the 69 model to the end of 1970 which accounted for the original 70 brochures featuring the 69 model and end Camaro production by mid summer of 1970. Believe me Camaro enthusiasts were worried. I was too and though it would be my last chance to by a Z28. The excuses were rising gas prices, smog emissions and Insurance Surcharges on Hi-Perf cars and then again it was a period of a traditionally slack period. It was PMD's Bill Collins and Herb Adams that were enthusiastic about the new design and eventually won the day to convince GM to build the F Body 2nd Gen with the proposal that it would compete with the success of Ford's Mustang and Maverick but in reality they wanted a shot at Donahue and the Javelin in Trans/AM. I was very surprised to see 2 models of Camaros in the spring of 1970 when I priced them. $5,600 was too much for me and the last of the 69 were about sold out. I bought a new 72 340 MAG RS Challenger in the fall of 71 for $3,800 and eventually got my 70Z in 76 which, I'm rather shy to say, paid $1,600 for and still have :o))

Sometimes I take it for granted that Camaro enthusiasts know something about the 70 market but it was a very confusing time and then again there aren't that many of us here that can say we were there and then try to explain things about CAR CRAFT that happened 40 years ago (Can't Remember A F&&*G Thing) in order to answer questions our younger member have about early Camaros.

I know CAR CRAFT Magizine was the sign of the times for the 60 and 70 era and suggest interested parties find copies:

http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e1/a9/057c_1.JPG

Note the 70 1/2 Camaro label. I believe PMD labeled the their 70 F Body 70+.

That's revisionist history.
The delay was cause by one thing:
Fisher Body had a huge mess - they had to remake the rear 1/4 dies in the matter on months. Those are a very long-lead item and $$.
Huge black eye for Fisher which helped accelerate the deconstrution of Fisher plants into GMAD.

JohnZ might have some details to add, but that's the jist of it.

There would have been internal discussions of whether to continue the model, but those were done years before 70. Tooling money needs to be released years before production.

I'm not disputing the problems with the Fisher Plant but early 70 Camaro adds and brochures showing the 69 model carried over into 1970 was not Revisionary History as far as the public was concerned it was concurrent with the fact that the Muscle Car Era was ending and along with it the Z28 and BB/SS models. In the long run the Big 3, including AMC, built the Last and Final Warriors in 1970 that that are today considered to be the BEST Engineered Muscle Cars ever built. I don't understand the mind of some 69 owners that can't fathom that their model was part or even played a roll in the 70 evolution of Muscle Cars because it did in a major way contribute to whether the Camaro was even to survive. Personally, I love the 1st Gen Body Style and actually prefer it over my 70 model for style and understand why it is so popular but after my first examination of the new Camaro in the spring of 1970 my mind was made up to buy a 2nd Gen because it had superior engineering. In the long run I may have made a mistake because 69 Owners have it made today. You can buy any body part including a new 2008 manufactured 69 replica plus updated drive train and suspension; where as, 70 owners can't even replace a sun visor. I feel almost as rejected as some 67 owners do - LOL

Aside from a superior engineered body and suspension, the 70Z Camaro had the best parts GM had to offer resulting from years of experience in building Hi-Perf cars through out the 60's which consisted of the 69Z Camaro electrics and drive train with Chevelle and Corvette parts thrown in. No other Camaro is as Specific or as Unique in that matter.

In the long run the Big 3, including AMC, built the Last and Final Warriors in 1970 that that are today considered to be the BEST Engineered Muscle Cars ever Built.

Oh contraire, in the current issue of Camaro Performers there is an article on the 2nd gen Z/28 where they dug up old magazine tests that show the '71 Z with 9:1 advertised compression and lower HP ratings ran slightly quicker than the '70 in the 1/4 mile. Then the even lower HP rated '72 clicked off an even lower time by about half a sec time than the '70. There conclusion was the '72 was the king of the 2nd gens...

Dennis: The word I use was "engineered" not King of time Slips in which case the 72 and 70 both being a 2nd Gen share. And I doubt very much if an 11:1 Compression Ratio 360 Hp 70 z28 with a mechanical cam and 4:10 Posi 12 bolt when properly tuned could be beat by any other 2nd Gen other then say a 402 or 454 BB/SS in the 1/4. Anyway 1/4 mile time slips are a waste of my time. I drive a Z28 the way it is designed to be driven.

I'm not disputing the problems with the Fisher Plant but early 70 Camaro adds and brochures showing the 69 model carried over into 1970...
Umm, can you provide any copies of those ads or brochures?
Yes, when it was unknown how long the die problem would take to resolve, they considered continuing 69 into 70. Promo pictures were taken, but I'm not aware of any ads or brochures being released that show that......

Dennis: ..... High ranking GM Officials were actually planning to scrub the 2nd Gen design and continue the 69 model to the end of 1970 which accounted for the original 70 brochures featuring the 69 model and end Camaro production by mid summer of 1970. .........
http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e1/a9/057c_1.JPG

Note the 70 1/2 Camaro label. .........

How is it you are the only one that knows any of this? Scrub the 2nd gen that served them for 12-13 years? A magazine can print whatever they want. Doesn't make it true.

Kurt: I saw posters on the wall of the Chev Dealer in Allendale (Barrie) Ontario when I was shopping for a z28 at Xmas of 69 showing the 69 design as a 70 model. I've got some old car mags which I might be able to scout through to see if I can find something similar but man that's 38 years ago. I've always thought it was common knowledge and can't believe the interest the Poster, Add or Brochure; whatever you want to call it, has today. Perhaps they used the very Promotion Poster your referring to. I remember asking the sales personal what the difference was between the 69 and 70 was and he said it's the same car and they did not know whether they would be getting any more Camaros. When I returned that spring I saw 2 models the 69 and the 70 both selling as new cars in 1970. The sales personal referred to the new model as a 70 1/2 and the other as a 69 design but they were both 1970's. Anyway, both cars were too expensive for a 22 year old just out of university. As I said previously; it was confusing.

Gary: I not trying to prove anything, I'm discussing the year 1970 and the sign of the times. That mag-cover depicts what car enthusiasts were reading in March of 1970 while the Camaro 69 to 70 model transition was actually taking place and believe me a lot of the articles were indeed speculative. There is really no big deal about it. If anything I'm suspecting these retorts are either for the sake of hearing information from someone who experienced it first hand from a consumers point of view or you are too young and have some "revisionist history" theory - Man look at the mess of the auto industry today and then try to relate to it 40 years from now. It wasn't much different back then - LOL. By the way I'm glad they didn't scrub the 2nd Gen because I would not be driving a (eh-humm a 2nd Gen) 70z today :o))

The 1970 Camaro was never advertised by GM or their dealers as a 1970 1/2. The name 1970 1/2 Camaro was given to it by the automotive press at that time. Such press as the Car Craft magazine being shown in this thread.

I would really like to see an offical chevrolet ad or anything else for that matter showing the 1970 Camaro being promoted by GM as a 1970 1/2.

Rick H.

Rick: Agreed but there is no escaping the association the 70 model has with the term 70 1/2 nor the facts about dealers selling 69 designs as new cars in 1970. Camaro history has been noted with this Myth and by definition can not be proven but it was, is and will always be a topic of interest among Camaro enthusiasts.

Maybe it was a Canadian thing - they had a different marketing system then the US.
I've never heard of any "69 model as a 70" literature actually being published back in the day. I'd be curious if anyone else has seen or heard of it.

The GM Photo Store use to have a poster of a '69 SS with a front license plate with 1970 across it. A lot of advertising work is not ment to ever reach the general public but often does... I recall the story being advertising does a lot of advanced copy, kinda like QVC showing Superbowl winner shirts for both teams then only selling the ones for the actual winner. There are also a lot of pictures of cars with options that were never offered like an SS350 Chevelle.

To a lot of folks they need to key in on something to highlight their cars as special. Writers do it too, to pull in the reader... It's just like the Z10 thing and there is a thread from not too far past about a COPO 2nd gen (that's how it got it's spoiler). There are copo tax cabs, cop cars and fleet vehicles out there maybe we should collect them...

We Disagree once again. The Z10 was, and is, special. So was the 70 Z COPO. The 70 Z COPO was and is tied closely to trans am racing.

You could use the same flawed logic to state that the 69 COPO 427 was "nothing special". After all, it's the same engine that plenty of vette's got. Maybe it's the camaro owners with vette envy.

We can always bring up the Deuce thing as well..... Same LT1 engine as the 70 Z, and LT1 vette. The stickers did'nt make it any faster.

You can't have it both ways.............

Some guys just can't stand to see anyone else enjoy their cars and what's special about them. The GMMG cars don't float my boat, but some guys here love em. There's a great thread going on right now about them in the COPO section. I don't feel the need to burst their bubble every time they talk about em. I just read the thread, and yea, I learn a thing or two sometimes (like about 1LE's and Players Challenge cars).

Rich your taking that out of context... The Z10 is special in it's own right but not for it's ties to the Indy 500 like the Z11. Should they have made getting a spoiler on a 1st gen a copo order instead of an RPO? My reference was the fact that we talk about copos and everyone knows we are talking 427, not spoilers or taxi's or fleet cars! What's flawed logic in that?

Rich you are correct. Dennis just chose those as an example is all. Z10s and any performance COPO is special. Z15CAM is making more out of this than there really is. Chevy screwed up on tooling. Car salesmen and magazine reporters called the continued 1969 model something (1970) it was not. Chevy was sweating bullets I am sure over being late with the debut of the 1970 model. I would bet someone's butt was burning over the tooling mess.

A car salesman or reporter hype something? Naw.

So let me get this striaght Dennis, you are saying that a Z11(rpo), which for the most part (the SB cars anyway) was a SS350 car, is special because it lapped at Indy, but the stickers and white/orange paint did'nt make it any faster. BUT, the 70 Z COPO (spoiler), which was designed to kick butt in trans am racing and was a performance enhancement was "key in on something to highlight their cars as special"? Yes, I think that is flawed logic.

And as usual, no likes to answer the Duece question either.


We all know the intent was to bust balls on cars that you don't care for. No one was talking 70 COPO's or Z10's. My point was why do you care? Why even bring that up again? If some of us with these and other special cars talk about em, just don't read the posts.

Rich

So let me get this striaght Dennis, you are saying that a Z11(rpo), which for the most part (the SB cars anyway) was a SS350 car, is special because it lapped at Indy, but the stickers and white/orange paint did'nt make it any faster. BUT, the 70 Z COPO (spoiler), which was designed to kick butt in trans am racing and was a performance enhancement was "key in on something to highlight their cars as special"? Yes, I think that is flawed logic.

And as usual, no likes to answer the Duece question either.


We all know the intent was to bust balls on cars that you don't care for. No one was talking 70 COPO's or Z10's. My point was why do you care? Why even bring that up again? If some of us with these and other special cars talk about em, just don't read the posts.

Rich

?????????????????? you're way off base Rich... I was not trying to start anything but it seems you are.

To a lot of folks they need to key in on something to highlight their cars as special. Writers do it too, to pull in the reader... It's just like the Z10 thing and there is a thread from not too far past about a COPO 2nd gen (that's how it got it's spoiler). There are copo tax cabs, cop cars and fleet vehicles out there maybe we should collect them...

Your words from above.........
And you still did not answer any of the points........

Rich

Rich - again all I get is you're angry and insulted by my analogy, I for the life of me can't make sense of your post so really can't reply to what ever you are trying to get me to reply too.

Indy pace car is special for being associated with the race not it's power. Z10 isn't associated with the race but many insist it is. It's another car that is special on it's own merits. There are big blocks in both Z10 and Z11, so what! As for the Deuce, what is your point? It got an LT1 so what?

As for the '70 Z/28 it's an awesome car in it's own right, you can call it a COPO in your sig because it got it's spoiler via copo ordering but you and I both know you do it because it associates the car with the 427 COPO cars that the hobby has endeared with the moniker COPO.

I don't see '70 1/2 in your sig, I don't care if someone calls the car a '70 or a '70 1/2, I don't care if you want to call your car a copo. I mearly stated that some get all fired up over names that in some way they feel set their car apart from the pack, thanks for proving my point.

Perhaps you should start a new thread and not hijack this one any more?
I'd be happy to enlighten you.
Angry? no, Insulted? yes.

Rich

Perhaps you should start a new thread and not hijack this one any more?
I'd be happy to enlighten you.
Angry? no, Insulted? yes.

Rich

LOL Rich - I was still on topic until you started nipping at my heals! I know we disagree about the state of the world with you living in the self professed corruption capital and you can't stand that I enjoy life and see the good in people and trust the police here where I live. How was that for off topic? Lets see I woke up this morning and decided I was going to piss Rich off and over coffee and a donut I devised a plan to attack him personally! Not! Sorry you don't understand my comments and it insulted you, let's move on nothing I said was intend to insult anyone...

Rick: Agreed but there is no escaping the association the 70 model has with the term 70 1/2 nor the facts about dealers selling 69 designs as new cars in 1970. Camaro history has been noted with this Myth and by definition can not be proven but it was, is and will always be a topic of interest among Camaro enthusiasts.
It doesn't help that GM themselves still call it a 1970 1/2!

Official GM Photograph from the General Motors Media Archives of a 1970 1/2 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe.
http://gmphotostore.com/popup.asp?number=53217955
http://gmphotostore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=53217955

I also heard the new Challenger refered to as a 2008 3/4. I wonder if we will be arguing about that in 38 years.

Fine by me. I'm not out for a fight........

Now, about the first part of your first post, about the 69 with the 70 advertising. I have seen that as well.

I agree with Gary, who cares if someone calls it a 70.5 or someone else calls it a 70? I don't see where it gains either guy anything, or hurt anyone else?

Rich

Z15CAM is making more out of this than there really is.

I stayed on TOPIC though - LOL

Anyway, I kinda like getting things stirred up a sometimes when I see an interesting post because I do enjoy to read what fellow Camaro enthusiasts have to say or have experienced about the topic. I always learn something new just in case I have to use the information the next time a POST attracts my attention :o))

Look at the hits we got on this one and I'm sure we all gained from it.

Maybe it was a Canadian thing - they had a different marketing system then the US.
I've never heard of any "69 model as a 70" literature actually being published back in the day. I'd be curious if anyone else has seen or heard of it.
not exactly the literature your talking about but my copy of " The Great Camaro" by Michael Lamb (3rd printing Feb 80) Pg 59 says "many Camaros with the apperance of 69's were registered as 1970 models. Unofficial figures put the number of 1970 produced 69's at 53,526 units."

With the limited amount of info available in the 80's I clung to every word, it's no wonder we have so many Urban Legends in this hobby today.

Jeff

Was 69 Z28's the most produced Z28's ever,because they were still making them in the year 1970?

MBHD
they are still the most produced TODAY as we speak...LOL