I just bought a car that could really use having the body mounts replaced. I am wondering if it can be done 1 side at a time. I am wondering if
front sheet metal needs to be of for this? do these bolts usually come free fairly easily?

thanks! :D

one side at a time can be done, I would advise revmoving the front clip though to make it easier to get to the bushings under the firewall as well as those under the rad support.

I just did mine with the front end stripped off, it was a breeze. THese bolts can be very rusty. In fact, the ones in my center mounts were rusted to a small fraction of their original diameter! The sleeves inside the bushings were completely gone.

To avoid breaking the captive nuts off, you'll need to work em & soak em. Run em in first, then out, with an impact... just work em back and forth till you work off the rust.

Lots have done this with all the sheetmetal on, although I'm not sure how they got any liquid wrench on the center bolts. I'd think you'd need to support the sheetmetal up front somehow.

I was looking for an excuse to strip her down and clean everything up.

I did mine about 2 months ago with the car completely intact. Its pretty easy actually. Definitely spray a bunch of antiseize on the bolts a couple days before to make your life easier. If you do a search there are a number of posts detailing how to do it. Basically you do one side at a time. Start on one side... start with the mounts/bushings under the seat and work your way forward. Loosen all the bolts on that side first, this will allow you to seperate the frame from the body and give you room to slide the old bushings out and new in. I wrapped a come along strap around the frame to help pull it down and seperate from body. When you get the one under seat done, leave the bolt a little loose and move to the one under the firewall and then onto the radiator support mount. Then do the same thing on the other side. Hope this helps. My bushings were very bad, im pretty sure they were the originals. Made a big difference in the ride of the car when i got the new ones in.

The best tool you can use to help you from breaking anything, including your knuckles, is Fabulous PB Blaster.
http://www.pbblaster.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=1

WD-40 is for removing stickers from bumpers or windows. PB will eat any rust AND truelly lubricate at the same time. There are other products that work just as well and other members can list them.
I just didn't want to imagine you trying to get rusty bolts loose with WD-40.

I was thinking that the weight of the engine would be enough to cause the frame to lower as the bolts were loosened. I can't see how any penetrant will help on the bolt under the seat, its all enclosed. advise taken though! I'm happy to hear it can be done without nose disassembly.

I did mine one side at a time with the car completely together. Was quite easy to do once the bolts broke loose. I soaked them well with penetrant for about 2 days before trying.

I've got a step by step writeup on my website.
www.geocities.com/boodlefoof/bushings (http://www.geocities.com/boodlefoof/bushings)

The bolts\nut cages under the seats aren't enclosed. Unless of course the carpet is still in there. ;)
There's plenty of access holes in the seat pan to allow you to get to them. But if the car's not too cruddy and rusty, the bolts under the seats will probably come right out easy anyway.

It's the two up front under the firewall that have been exposed to the elements all these years that might need attention.

Do you guys have a particular brand or supplier you liked best. I saw NPD has the bushings for and a bolt kit for a reasonable price.
I had this car inspected and bought it sight unseen. I'm not too pleased right now. the car isn't horrible but it definitely was misrepresented. it also needs more than the owner and inspector told me.
I'm completely overwhelmed and a little angry!
sorry to complain...
I really appreciate all your responses!

mg69z28 you looking for stock or poly?

Poly:
Energy Suspension Body Bushings - Part Number 3.4142G (black) or 3.4142R (red)

Black or Red is $67 at Summit RED (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ENS%2D3%2D4142R&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=ens%2D3%2D4142r) BLACK (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ENS%2D3%2D4142G&N=110&Ntk=KeywordSearch&Ntt=energy+suspension+camaro)
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ens-3-4142g.jpg

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ens-3-4142r.jpg

Easy easy mg... these cars are old, and they're big business for many. Lotsa of things hide under paint and carpet, some previously known, other's not.

Look at it this way...you get to spend a new york winter getting close to your new 4 wheeled friend.

Hey brian,

I was thinking of going stock. I don't know what poly would add as oposed to stock....

Jim, I know what your saying... it just bothers me. I paid a decent amount of money for this car. I'm having trouble digesting it all!!

Just wait though, once you get through all the unseen things, there will be other bugs that creep up. The interior upgrade bug, the wider wheels bug, the what color to paint bug, and last but not least the all encompassing more hp bug! Get through your body bushings and work on the suspension and go from there. In short, start at the bottom and finish with paint. It's not an overnight nor usually a one year project. But if you take your time and any available left over Christmas, overtime, bonus or just plain found money. You'll in the end have something that you'll want to blacken somes eye if they look cross at it or speak ill of it. You've adopted a new child that needs TLC. Want proof? Look in the mirror after closing your eyes and visuallizing the car completed. You'll see a little boy in the mirror looking back at you that you didnt know was there. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Brandon knows of what he speaks!

Don't feel overwhelmed... not THIS early in the game. I started this stinkin' project in the same boat as you. Every time I touch another piece, it requires some kind of work. It was supposed to be a quicky fix-up and drive type thing but turned into a full-blown nut & bolt restoration.

Like everyone says, start at the bottom and work your way through the mechanicals, chassis, engine, brakes, etc., until it's time for paint. Then do the interior last. You don't want paint overspray or something to get damaged as you're working on one portion or another.

Good luck! And remember..... we're here when you need us!
The light is always on.
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I'd suggest going with solid mounts but that is my preference. When I replaced my old rubber ones with solid, it really made the car feel much more precise in handling... and I didn't notice any extra road noise transferred to the car.

To All--


I took delivery of the car yesterday. I've gone out to the garage to "visit" a few times ... I was trying to figure where to start.
I went to check a front fender emblem, I have NO idea why and i ended up accidently breaking the thing ... i looked at the car and said "this is NOT how we need to start things off! smile.gif
I was considering just selling it ... but who likes a quitter!
What a bunch of great guys you all are! I have never been met with such help or just plain old support!

Thanks! I'm sure i'll be back with
more questions.....

Mike

Mike, my car was a reasonably nice looking "driver" when I bought it 6 years ago. Story I got is one guy stripped & media blasted the car, painted the shel, and sold it to another, who spent 5 years putting the basket case back toigether and sold it to me.

I checked it out pretty well, knew what I was getting into, and did drive it home, and every summer since, BUT... when the bozo put it back together, HE USED ALL THE ORIGINAL PARTS, and they were all shot! So on the one hand, I've had to replace every moving part under the car, and on the other hand, all the bolts were pretty easy to get loose!

Jim... OH MAN!! THAT BYTES!!!

it sure looks nice... i like the color.

I'm trying to decide the best way to handle a few things. the nose wasn't assembled as well as it should have been and the front suspension needs to be done. i'm tossed with whether to pull off the nose metal, swap body bushing bolts 1 side at a time. then while the metal is off rebuild the front suspension and throw a new coat of paint on the frame. then reassemble. the car will need paint work down the road. i figured to start that way possibly. ...

Well thanks, mg, and btw, welcome to Team Camaro!
My car "can" be photographed well, but doesn't look that good up close. Notice in the picture, the side is in the shade, but the hood's in the sun? Did that on purpose...lol

I've been having fun with it for what, six years now? Everyone has their own way... Hwy Star Joe's car's been apart so long he may have forgotten what it looks like complete. I like mine "up" during ragtop season, but do a lil every winter.

I'm stripped to the firewall now, it wasn't hard, other than a few bolts that haven't been off for 35 years. Big stack of peices to de-gunk, de-ust, and re-paint. Got some new guages, work to do on the wiring, new cam, or maybe a whole new motor, and a paint job if I dont run outa time.

This year I've bitten off a lot, so we'll see how it goes, wish us both luck?

Jim,

Looks like we'll have plenty to talk about .....

mg just a thought on your car, if you are going to take the front clip off the car, you will really have the chance to things right. If you do take off the clip, may as well remove the engine and take the chance to clean up the engine bay, it would also be easy to remove the subframe and rework the front end. I did a disc brake conversion last winter and rebuilt the front end during the process - new bushings, powder coated the control arms, new idler arms, pitman arm, sway bar, etc. The process was fairly painless and took me - a novice about 3 weekends to do the complete job. Besides if you rolled out the subframe it would be infinetly easier to work on. Just some thoughts.

phoenixdawg

I hear you ... I think your right. I ordered the body bushings and some engine compartment parts ... what brand front end components did you use. I also have to find a person to rebuild the manual steering gearbox... the list is GROWING ....

Thanks for the advise...

Mike

The body bushings I just used were Energy Suspension. I think the a-arm ones were the same, but that was years ago.

rebuild a manual box, huh? hmmm... if u do a search in suspensions, many, including me, have retrofitting a 3rd gen (mid '80's IROC) power steering, fast ratio, lots of road feel, kinda "new car" like....

Jim---

I tend to stick to stock as best I can. I know
what you mean about late model boxes though. I guess I should at least consider a late model box possibly...

s'pose it all depends... my road from stock has been full of good intentions... bought a #'s matching car and swapped in a 4 speed, downhill from there. Just depends on what you like ...restored stone stock is nice, unrestored survivor is sublime, but I just can't fight the "faster, stronger, better" bug.

As far as taking the clip off and cleaneing her up... I spent the last TWO and ONE HALF weekends taking 1 inner fender to bare steel on both sides...watch out for snowballs, they grow when they go down that hill!

It is a constant struggle when working on an old car especially these where there is so much available. plus theres always THE BUDGET!!

that snowball is a SCARY thing... probably the reason I haven't taken any tools out yet!

one bug to stay away from is powdercoating...my project started out with "lets do the interior"...now the subframe is off, powdercoated, disc conversion, tvs suspension, etc. etc.
For myself finances are not a huge concern...the wife is.. it can spiral once you start.
If you end up loosing control and taking the subframe all the way off...dont spend hours scraping yrs of crap off. spend upto 400 and get it powdercoated. They sandblast and clean the thing for you.

Rick

Time will be my biggest factor. This winter my list is very very long, and ragtop season starts in 120 days. May 1, I can drive it again, if it's together. This is our sixth years together, and we haven't missed a summer yet, so we'll see.

mg, how 'bout some pics? and some insight as far as what this car will be for you? First year, 'd handle the nessessary stuff, with a firm back on the road date.

Welcome to Team Camaro and I second the pics. Lets see what she looks like. To me a car is like a women, can't live with them can't live with out them. So if you gotta spend a little to keep her happy and nice and doa little tweaking when she first arrives no deal. And what women was everything you thought she was the first time you met her. You can find shortcomings easly, but the adventure is finding all the things your going to love about her...............still talking about your Camaro.

BTW:

I Always call my Camaro a her. Her name changes depending on the mood though!

I need to find a free website so I can post some pictures ... you guys have me wondering about power steering now .... I have to watch how "the board" reacts to the list of things.

hehe the powers that be are gonna move this to bench racing pretty soon,lol

as far as free places to put pics, your isp probably provides some storage, then there's yahoo, webshots,and a bunch of others.

I was thinking of sticking w/the manual steering to save some cash on the front end rebuild and keep it stock. I haven't deceided what to do yet. I need to get through the body bushings then look at cost for the frontend.

here is a link to where i posted a few pics. these were taken just before I bought it.

http://community.webshots.com/user/mag1664

very very nice! Is it a real Z or a clone? Looks very clean and very original, even got the old style hose clamps and spark plug heat shields and stuff. Itsa keeper for sure.

Hard to imagine a car that looks so good outside and under the hood would have body mounts bordering on dangerous! Wonder what else hides? nuttin I hope.

hey Jim...

Thanks!! It's real. numbers block. it needs to be gone through. it has potential... my wife says it needs love and me to work magic ..

I'm looking for a wand smile.gif

haha... don't gotta wand... but I got a rand die grinder with a stripping wheel on it...

while your doing the bushings throw in a subframe connector too!

to all--

Spread the the word to all you know to NEVER use the auto appraisal group to have a car inspected. www.autoappraisal.com (http://www.autoappraisal.com)

Hey, mg, have u been watching this one? http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php/topic/24/581/3.html 30k, green, with a war relacement engine, expecting to put in another 10... don't know what u put in yours, but hope it'sa "feel good" for you.

HEY JIM... NO but i will go through some of the threads ... I haven't decided how deep to dig into mine yet ... i have to find a source of some used stuff... i need a heater control panel.. i know i'm not perfect but some people should not be allowed near a car (previous owner)
smile.gif

the heater control panel can be rebuilt, I think. I did my '68, replaced a broken defroster handle, new "face plate" and bezel, looks like new works like new, I think you can get those peices for 69's too.

It kinda sounds like your car got a "cosmetic restoration" (only fixed what the camera see's.)

i started spraying the body bushing bolts. they look very happy and tight. if i remove the seats will i see the cage nut?

i think the guy who bought the green car did well.

Yes, if you take the seats out and peel the carpet back, they're right under the front edge of the seat pan. You'll be able to see them through the long slots in the pans. Directly above the actual bolts coming through the nuts will be small, 1" round holes.

The ones under the seats won't be too badly rusted... It's the middle ones that'll be a problem, under the firewall. There's almost no access there to squirt, either. The rad support bolts could be fun, too, especially the pass side, under the battery...

yes they all look REAL happy! smiling at me, sticking there tongues out ... i was thinking these 4 bolts are going to kill me!

If you don't have a compressor and impact wrench, that might be a wise first investment in car care...

I just did my bushings, and those bolts were fun. The rear 2 came right out. The middle 2 I really had to work em, in and out a lil at a time till I got all the rust out. The front 2 flat out destroyed the captive nuts on the rad support, had to blast em with a torch, then hold em with vise grips.

I've been reading this thread enjoying it thoroughly. I just rolled my subframe out today and have my car stripped to the firewall. What paint would you guys suggest painting the firewall and frame.

For the do-it yourselfer, it's hard to beat por 15. You just clean off the old paint and heavy rust, and brush it on. It flows out nice, you can't tell it's brushed once it's dry. Fo the firewall, it depends on what resources (tools-air-spray gun?) you have, if you have nothing, rustoleum semi gloss black looks good, as does por chassis black.

ck 2 ...
The only thing you need to keep in mind with por15 is it needs to be sealed in areas where it is exposed to light. it is uv sensitive. Jim is right it's good stuff. I haven't tried to brush it on, sounds like an alternative to spraying. you may want to try krylon's rust tough semi-black. it has the right look.
how did removing your body bolts go?

Mine? they done, new poly's in. It's just a lil (LOL!) tighter than it was.